Seattle Avionics

midlifeflyer said:
It definitely seems that pi$$ing off a significant portion of the existing user base is not the most brilliant marketing strategy. But I wonder…

Anyone have any idea the relative percentages of FlyQ users who subscribe annually vs those who bought the “lifetime” package?
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All I recall is Steve being open that it was a small number of lifetime available and they sold quickly.
 
this is hilarious... i just sent an email to SA because a feature they advertised 'Document Library ' simply doesn't work... and they admitted it doesn't work and they then said 'maybe it will get fixed'.

My reply was 'maybe I'll renew'.

FlyQ is is meh. It's basically the Temu version of ForeFlight.

I hate being locked into an iPad I have no other use for, and iPads are trash to begin with.
 
The he documents library has been broken since day one
 
pfarber said:
I hate being locked into an iPad I have no other use for, and iPads are trash to begin with.
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Different strokes. Since retirement, my iPad has replaced my laptop when I travel and my desktop when I'm not sitting at my desk. It's my music station for dinner parties. Heck, with the Pencil and a handwriting app, it's become my personal Journal and, with a Bluetooth keyboard I can even write my articles on it.

I might be an Apple fanboy, but since I've never owned a Mac and you'll have to pry my Android phone from my cold dead hands, I kinda doubt it ;)
 
Thought experiment. If Apple never invented the iPad and Foreflight or Garmin or some other aviation company came out with the exact same product, hand held navigation device, that can also run apps, would all the Apple haters think it was bad?
 
If Mercedes Benz didn't invent the automobile and Chevy came along and offered the exact same product I would give up on my trusted Chevy because it was bad. It would be bad because of proprietary design and overpriced compared to say Ford or even dare I say it, Chrysler.

When my SL600 had a rock chip on the glass in front of the headlight, I went to the dealer to buy a replacement glass; the headlight worked fine and the glass was removable. The dealer wouldn't sell just the glass and quoted $1,800 for the headlight back around 2005. That was enough for me to decide to sell the car and buy a different brand automobile.
 
Hang 4 said:
Thought experiment. If Apple never invented the iPad and Foreflight or Garmin or some other aviation company came out with the exact same product, hand held navigation device, that can also run apps, would all the Apple haters think it was bad?
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If it were indeed the "exact same product," meaning it was not designed for the cockpit environment and it had too dim a display and it overheated, then yeah, I'd hate it.
 
pfarber said:
I hate being locked into an iPad I have no other use for, and iPads are trash to begin with.
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That's your choice. I got the iPad for Foreflight. It still works well after 9-10 years with good battery life. ForeFlight still runs well, and I use it on my trips to see what I'm looking at on the ground. I also use it for movies on domestic flights, e-books, music player, e-mail reader. Not too shabby for "trash".
 
They offered these "lifetime" subscriptions at a critical time for the company. Steve desperately needed (1) customers as the AOPA deal fell apart (everyone remember that back in July 2014?); and (2) cash. They were competing against Garmin and Foreflight, they had already made a pretty significant investment in the product, the risk of failure was high with no APOA support, and they didn't want to lose what they had invested. They knew quite well Garmin and Foreflight could easily put them out of business, but felt they could offer a slightly cheaper product and win. For those customers that would make the investment and commitment to keep using, he was willing to offer the product for many years. Customers held up there end of the deal, but appears SA is deciding they no longer need to hold up their end.

As I read the announcement, part of their justification for this change is to "add new features" One such feature is to have more than one cycle of charts in the app at a time. Let's see....FF and GP have had this capability for how long? Garmin Connext - both FF and GP support this but not FlyQ. FltPlan Go had Connext support before Garmin bought them and their app remains free, but no such deal with FlyQ. I use FlyQ and it crashes more than any other flight app I use. Oh, and they want more money to address these issues too. Hmm.... charge your customers for poorly tested and implemented code as you had to rush versions to compete?

The license terms from prior versions have been saved and I'm not sure there is support for what they are doing. I'll be curious how Steve P and others spin this @ EAA this week. They could recant off this, but I doubt they will. It's going to take the user community to go after them to get them to change. Their reputation has clearly been damaged by this which is more of a problem than trying to squeeze more revenue from lifetime customers. The integration between FF and GP is game-changing stuff, and FlyQ always has been late or never invited to that party, so I think their future is cloudy for the FlyQ product for new customers.

Private equity is in control now and we all know their business model - raise revenue while cutting expenses so they can flip. I would certainly join any group to go after them to make them honor their commitment.
 
Well, here's the solution. iFly has a buyout promo going during Osh where if you switch to an iFly subscription from a competitor, they'll tack on any remaining time on that competitor's subscription.

Any remaining time from a qualified competitor EFB can be credited to your new iFly EFB subscription!​
​
For example, if you have 4 months remaining on your current EFB subscription, upon purchase of iFly EFB we will add 4 additional months to the end of your subscription.​


Seems like that should get you a lifetime subscription for iFly! :biggrin:
 
Half Fast said:
Well, here's the solution. iFly has a buyout promo going during Osh where if you switch to an iFly subscription from a competitor, they'll tack on any remaining time on that competitor's subscription.

Any remaining time from a qualified competitor EFB can be credited to your new iFly EFB subscription!​
​
For example, if you have 4 months remaining on your current EFB subscription, upon purchase of iFly EFB we will add 4 additional months to the end of your subscription.​


Seems like that should get you a lifetime subscription for iFly! :biggrin:
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lol you’re why the marketing department has to hire lawyers.
 
Half Fast said:
So has anyone stopped by the SA booth at Osh?
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Yes - they registered my complaint in a notebook that was filling with similar feedback. They asked for any specific words to pass on to management, and wrote them down. Also asked if there was anything that would satisfy me, such as a lifetime 25% discount going forward. I rejected that, saying keeping their word was the only thing they should do.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Initial Fix said:
Interesting article. Similar vein with t mobile reneging on a lifetime deal

arstechnica.com

Lawsuit: T-Mobile must pay for breaking lifetime price guarantee

Class action filed over price hikes on plans with Un-contract price guarantee.
arstechnica.com arstechnica.com
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Hmmmm..... IANAL, but I wonder whether a better approach would be a couple of hundred lifetime subscribers all filing seperately in a variety of small claims courts. Defending oneself against a swarm of hornets might prove more difficult than defending against one single bear.

Oh well - I have no dog in the fight. I'm just an amused spectator. :popcorn:
 
Half Fast said:
Hmmmm..... IANAL, but I wonder whether a better approach would be a couple of hundred lifetime subscribers all filing seperately in a variety of small claims courts. Defending oneself against a swarm of hornets might prove more difficult than defending against one single bear.
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Good question. Hard to tell with what is likely a pretty limited class. Just the procedural differences between small claims and real court typically make class action defense far more expensive than a swarm of small claims. Related question is whether the class is large enough for a competent class action attorney to be interested.
 
Just got a new email advertisement from iFlightPlanner. Read the first line. :devil: :biggrin: :happydance::rofl::rofl::cheerswine:



​


Frustrated by EFB companies continually raising prices or canceling "lifetime" subscriptions? It might be time for a change!
At iFlightPlanner, we offer a simple, cost-effective flight planning solution designed to save you fuel, time, and money on every flight.
AOPA MEMBER PRICING

​

TRADE IN YOUR CURRENT EFB & SAVE​

  1. Purchase an iFlightPlanner Membership: Save 20% as an AOPA Member.
  2. Submit Proof of Your Current EFB Subscription and Expiration: Email a screenshot to upgrade@iflightplanner.com.
  3. Receive the Remaining Time on Your Current Subscription: We'll add up to 1 full year to your new iFlightPlanner membership.
NOTE: Pilots with expiring FlyQ Lifetime subscriptions will receive 1 full year added to their new iFlightPlanner membership.

AOPA MEMBERS SAVE AN ADDITIONAL 20%​

As a special offer, AOPA members can save an additional 20% on iFlightPlanner Core (reg. $49.99/year) and iFlightPlanner Premium (reg. $99.99/year) memberships with special pricing here:
AOPA MEMBER PRICING

Switch to iFlightPlanner and experience simple, cost-effective flight planning that pays for itself.
Visit iFlightPlanner.com/Upgrade for more details!
The iFlightPlanner Crew
PLAN. FLY. LOG.


iFlightPlanner

(734) 531-8670 | iFlightPlanner.com

Ann Arbor, Michigan

​


 
I received that too. The other companies are going to try to capitalize on it.

I will give my money to someone to someone other than SA. I just can't see continuing to do business with a company that fails to keep it's promise.

My thoughts are it is not garnering enough new users to stay viable and had to resort to getting revenue from the established users. It's a really bad business decision but one they may not care about.

In my business it's your word that keeps your customers loyal.
 
Hearing some rumblings SA is going to back-off this "lifetime subs terminated" position and offer the legacy product (no more updates) to those lifetime users. Anyone else hearing this?

Rumor has it the legacy product will receive chart updates but no new functionality.

At some point iOS changes will break legacy so I wonder what SA's position will be then? Anyway, was told to sit tight and await a future communication. Apparently SA has received a lot of feedback, both via email and @ EAA.
 
the rumors seem to be a continued access to the 6.x version. But, they pushed the 7.x version before the announcement preventing someone from stopping an auto app update. Unless they release a separate 6.x version you can go backwards. It’s an empty offer IMO.
 
I use and have been satisfied with FlyQ. Simpler and faster than FF.
I never considered the lifetime offer.
But then, as a CFI, I get FlyQ for $19.95/yr.
When that ends, I’ll consider something else.
 
GLMS_NC said:
Hearing some rumblings SA is going to back-off this "lifetime subs terminated" position and offer the legacy product (no more updates) to those lifetime users. Anyone else hearing this?

Rumor has it the legacy product will receive chart updates but no new functionality.

At some point iOS changes will break legacy so I wonder what SA's position will be then? Anyway, was told to sit tight and await a future communication. Apparently SA has received a lot of feedback, both via email and @ EAA.
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I'll confirm your rumblings. I attended the forum session on Wednesday, July 24, 8:30am. Steve Podrachik was there. He said they had received a lot of negative feedback at the booth and therefore have changed their original plan somewhat. Here are the notes I took:

Wed July 24​
8:30am​
Oshkosh​
Forum 2​
​
Steve said lifetime members can use 6.9.1 with data updates VFR/IFR FOREVER. But there will be NO UPDATES to 6.9.1 ever (unless there might be a safety of flight issue). It will be called FlyQ Legacy.​
Also lifetime members will get a free trial period with FlyQ+ (v 7.x and newer) it will be longer than 30 days —maybe 60 or 90 days.​
Then we would get a 25% discount on the first year of FlyQ+ IF we wanted to go that way.​
We will be able to have both Legacy and FlyQ+ on the same iPad while we evaluate and decide.​

I will save any commentary for another post on another day.
 
pburger said:
I'll confirm your rumblings. I attended the forum session on Wednesday, July 24, 8:30am. Steve Podrachik was there. He said they had received a lot of negative feedback at the booth and therefore have changed their original plan somewhat. Here are the notes I took:

Wed July 24​
8:30am​
Oshkosh​
Forum 2​
​
Steve said lifetime members can use 6.9.1 with data updates VFR/IFR FOREVER. But there will be NO UPDATES to 6.9.1 ever (unless there might be a safety of flight issue). It will be called FlyQ Legacy.​
Also lifetime members will get a free trial period with FlyQ+ (v 7.x and newer) it will be longer than 30 days —maybe 60 or 90 days.​
Then we would get a 25% discount on the first year of FlyQ+ IF we wanted to go that way.​
We will be able to have both Legacy and FlyQ+ on the same iPad while we evaluate and decide.​

I will save any commentary for another post on another day.
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Great notes. The problem is you can’t download a previous version At least you can’t with Apple. So still a hollow offer
 
2-Bit Speed said:
I think I found your problem.
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Notwithstanding the current thread, the chance of me switching to android is zero

But I don’t think android allows you to go backwards either.
 
I think the plan is for them to have two apps on the App store: FlyQ Legacy, and FlyQ+.

That being said, I noticed that my FlyQ auto-updated to FlyQ+ version 7.0.1 (I didn't think I had auto-updates turned on). I guess I'll use it until it times out.
 
I think publicists will study SA's approach to this for years. It will be a sterling example of what not to do.
 
Initial Fix said:
The he documents library has been broken since day one
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yet it's still touted at least twice on the homepage.
crappy part is that if you want to download the sectional margin info you cannot. all the documents are more miss than hit.... i mean files transfers have been a thing since two computers were connected to each other

I have 4 months left.... so far I'm not seeing much to renew over.
 
Did anyone else see the new email sent today?

“
  • Lifetime users can continue to use FlyQ without any additional charge by downloading the FlyQ Legacy app, which we are releasing in the coming weeks. FlyQ Legacy will be version 6.9.2 to reflect that it’s based on FlyQ EFB 6.9.1 but also includes stability fixes added in FlyQ+ EFB 7.0.0 as well as fixes being added to forthcoming FlyQ+ EFB 7.0.2.
  • FlyQ Legacy will load your existing flight plans and aircraft / pilot profiles as well as continue to receive monthly ChartData updates.
  • We have no plans to update FlyQ Legacy after this release”
Apparently they listened to our complaints at Oshkosh and social media and so to “appease” us, they wanted to rub more salt in the wound by essentially saying, yeah we don’t care. We’re still going to screw over the lifetime users…
 
I'm trying to figure this out logically. Yeah, I know, pointless....

Hey, that lifetime thing is eating into our profits since our best customers aren't paying us any more. So let's **** of those best customers, that are arguably our best advertisers via word of mouth in hopes they give us more money even after we went back on our word the last time.

I'm just trying to figure out the downside of carrying these loyal customers over to the new version. Do they really think they will keep these customers? If so, they are morons.

They've now alienated their most loyal customers that were probably bringing them more than half of their new users. How is that going to raise the bottom line?
 
Makes me wonder if they are targeting a non hobby pilot customer for the new version and don't want to deal with hobby users.
 
I’m trying to interpret that email. Could it be they have relented in allowing the use of Legacy FlyQ with database updates till expiration 2097 for those not interested in updating to 7.0.x or later with the subscriptions discount?
 
MajorTurbulence said:
I’m trying to interpret that email. Could it be they have relented in allowing the use of Legacy FlyQ with database updates till expiration 2097 for those not interested in updating to 7.0.x?
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They relented on that as of Wednesday last week. They announced the continued lifetime use of FlyQ Legacy in the forum session at Oshkosh on 7/24. What's new is that they are going to do a few additional updates (bug fixes, etc) which they were not planning to do as of last Wednesday. So, not much difference, but a little.
 
I read the email as they aren’t going to do any updates after release. Aka, they’re essentially sunsetting the legacy app upon release. That email pretty much was them deciding to double down. I am yet to talk to someone who is a lifetime user who says they would pay the annual subscription. Their reputation has tanked because of this. The rating on the App Store has fallen .4 and they are no longer “the #1 rated pilot app”. And I know I’m not the only one now rooting for Seattle Avionics’ downfall. I used to recommend this app to people but I can assure you I would never do that again. If they have market analysis people working there, I would love to know how they projected this move to be beneficial to their company
 
Skyrys62 said:
Sent them an email today, letting them know that I will be passing on my opinions and experiences with FlyQ and Seattle Avionics to many, many pilots.
And if the decision doesn't get reversed that this T-shirt may be making the rounds.

View attachment 131745
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I'll buy one of those shirts. Size XL please
 
pburger said:
They relented on that as of Wednesday last week. They announced the continued lifetime use of FlyQ Legacy in the forum session at Oshkosh on 7/24. What's new is that they are going to do a few additional updates (bug fixes, etc) which they were not planning to do as of last Wednesday. So, not much difference, but a little.
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So, maybe I am a little slow on this, but are you saying that the company is allowing the database updates to the Legacy without additional charges to the lifetime users?
If they no longer will support it, I guess this could mean that some future IOS updates beyond the current could make it no longer useable if the company will not change its mind. However, one usually is not forced to update that IOS. I think I’m still using IOS 15 or 16+ on my IPad, and that is not the current version that FLYQ should be compatible with. This could theoretically last several years maybe well past my flying days.

So what am I missing?
 
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