Science Fair Project idea ??

Indiana_Pilot

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My 11 year old (5th grade) has a Science Fair coming up and I thought it would be cool (and of course fun) to involve flying in this somehow..

Does anyone have a good idea that would involve flying ? Maybe something we can do in the air?

I want to keep it at a 5th grade level ..

Thanks!
 
Low wing airplane? If so, maybe tape a few yarn telltales to the wing top and video them during stalls.

Tim
 
go to NASAs education website. there are lots of projects, grade-appropriate, the two of you can build. I did a wind tunnel that i use when teaching intro to aviation at middle schools. the $15 box fan is the most expensive part, everything else is cardboard. I plan to replace one side of the 4 sided tunnel with clear plexi to make it easier to see what's going on inside.

another one i like is the little altitude chamber. the bell jar runs about $60 and you need a vacuum pump and some hose, but there are plans on line to build a manual pump from an existing bike pump or make one from PVC.

ever see a Peep at 30,000 ft?
 
Bags of potato chips...
 
Bags of potato chips...

Or ziploc bags...one filled halfway and closed before you take off, the other filled halfway and closed at 10,000 ft. before you descend. Compare air versus water.
 
I like the wind tunnel idea. Add the capacity to have a smoke stream so you can visualize how the air flows over and around other objects. Perhaps get some balsa wood gliders at the hobby store as test subjects. You'd have a winner.
 
Awesome ideas so far !! This will help us determine what to go with.. I really like the idea of doing something while actually flying.
 
The effect cg has on flight. Take a big foam glider drill a hole in front of the cg, one on the cg, and one behind. Put a fishing weight in one hole, fly. Move weight to next hole and repeat.
 
I took the kids to the RMSC a couple of weeks ago. I thought the interactive exhibits with the fans were interesting. They had one that pushed a blanket of air towards the kids, and they were shown how to tack a sailboat (on rollers) into and/or across the wind.

There was another (similar concept, different demonstration) that put a box fan in front of a sheet that was weighted on the trailing edge and constrained to move only vertically on the leading edge. You could adjust the wind speed and see the effect on the shape of the resulting foil and the lifting capacity.
 
My 11 year old (5th grade) has a Science Fair coming up and I thought it would be cool (and of course fun) to involve flying in this somehow..

Does anyone have a good idea that would involve flying ? Maybe something we can do in the air?

I want to keep it at a 5th grade level ..

Thanks!

Solar powered glider? Autonomous control circuit? Guess that's above 5th grade?
 
I hate to offer An opinion on this since I never had kids, but isn't this something the kid should be figuring out.
 
I hate to offer An opinion on this since I never had kids, but isn't this something the kid should be figuring out.

Well, that's of the same idea of letting the kid figure out partial differential equations a bit later. The kid can FIGURE it out but the teacher gives at least a push in the right direction. Now if the old man builds the wind tunnel for them, instruments it, and tells them what to expect, that is something else again.

Jim
 
I plan on petting my kid do all the work.. I just want to give him a platform to work from... Plus I get to fly :)
 
Regardless what project he chooses, he'll need glitter, lots of glitter, on his poster to be competitive. Sad, but true.
 
My daughter made a wind tunnel, wind supplied by my shop-vac hose attached to the outlet.

Plywood bottom and back, clear plexi top and front.
Airfoil inside, with strings sticking out into the slipstream top and bottom,

Exterior lever to adjust angle of attack of airfoil, so it was easy to watch the change from laminar to turbulent flow as AOA increases.

She got an A+.
 
My son did a thrust comparison of different props on an RC airplane when he was about that age. He used the same motor/battery combo and measured the thrust in oz. vs. the amps drawn by the motor with different diameter/pitch props. It was pretty neat and he he got an A.
 
I like the wind tunnel idea. Add the capacity to have a smoke stream so you can visualize how the air flows over and around other objects. Perhaps get some balsa wood gliders at the hobby store as test subjects. You'd have a winner.
I did this once growing up. Made a long plexiglass box with a computer fan at one end and straws stacked on the other end. Carved different shapes from balsa. Used punks for lighting fireworks for the smoke. I asked for special permission to light the punks at school since most schools don't allow fire at all.
 
. Used punks for lighting fireworks for the smoke.


I wonder if dry ice and an eyedropper of water would produce the same effect? I seem to remember from college chem that you could make "smoke" from a mixing of two common chemicals but I misremember how.

I just remembered. Common swimming pool cleaner (muriatic acid from the hardware store) and household ammonia (window cleaner) works fine if you know how to do it. See http://www.instructables.com/id/Make-Smoke-Without-Heat-Using-Common-Chemicals/ for a pretty good explanation. jw

Jim
 
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I wonder if dry ice and an eyedropper of water would produce the same effect? I seem to remember from college chem that you could make "smoke" from a mixing of two common chemicals but I misremember how.

Jim
The problem with that is dry ice "smoke" settles right to the ground. Schools may not allow it either with the prevalence of dry ice bombs.
 
I'll be honest with you, the ideas that your kid comes up with on their own will be far more fulfilling to them, regardless of your attachment to flying. I helped "inspire" my daughter for one science fair project. It wasn't fulfilling to either of us and she certainly wasn't rewarded by the judging. Then on another year she discovered something interesting on her own (M&Ms placed in soda cause it to release carbonation). Totally on her own. She was nominated to go on to the state competition. Let your kid do whatever the heck interests them, and leave your own fantasies out of it!
 
Thank you for your concern... but.....

The way I look at a Science Fair project is it's an opportunity for them to learn. He reviewed all of the common projects and couldn't think of anything on his own that interested him.. He loves to fly with me so it seemed like the obvious choice to involve flying. If he didn't seem interested in it I wouldn't have pushed him to this.

I disagree with leaving my fantasies out of it... I don't believe I am wrong for wanting to be involved with his project and teaching him about something he finds interesting.. This will be a unique project for sure at his school.
 
Jack Thelander, a CFI of mine, had a neat demo he would do as a CFI, (he was also the chief aerodynamics engineer for Douglas). He proved that "Bernouli" applied to an airplane was just an observation of Newton. He put a recording barometer on the ground and we flew over it. He then divided the lifting cross section by the column area for the barometer, applied it to the spike on the barometer as we flew over it, and came up with the weight of the airplane.
 
A science fair judge's perspective...

I've been a category judge at the Santa Clara Valley Science and Engineering Fair for many years. I've judged projects by 6th graders through seniors in a broad number of different categories, and it's been my experience that the science projects which are primarily conceived and executed by the students almost always do better in the judging than those projects which had heavy parental involvement in coming up with the original idea or in the execution of the project. Students who own their projects are, in general, much more motivated and enthusiastic about doing the work and are also much more knowledgeable about the results they achieved.

When judging, we look for projects which the students conceived. It's usually quite easy to see the projects which either came out of some book of Science project recipes (101 Science Fair Projects For Kids!) or were foisted onto the students by their parents. Those projects don't do well, because they don't showcase the student's scientific thought, talent, and creativity. The from-the-book projects show someone else's creativity. The heavy parental involvement projects show the parents' skills, not the students. Believe me, this rapidly comes out in the student interviews at the fair.

A good science fair project isn't a vehicle to teach a student facts, it's a vehicle for them to discover something new for themselves.

A good science fair project usually isn't a straight path from getting the "right" initial hypothesis to setting up an experiment to collecting the perfect data to drawing the expected conclusion. Good science fair projects have messy data, twists and turns to the conclusion, etc. They also, however, have students who understand why the errors exist and can explain how those errors came to be and how they effect the conclusions.

One of the best science fair projects I ever judged was one in which the student (6th grader) started with a "I wonder why" question. The student developed a reasonable hypothesis, and came up with a set of experiments to test it. The experiments were executed well and the data was recorded and analyzed nicely. Unfortunately for the student, the data and results completely discounted the hypothesis. No other conclusion was possible; the hypothesis was completely false. Despite being told by his poor excuse of a science teacher that his project wouldn't do well at the fair because he got the "wrong" result, the student won his category. Why? Because he did real science. He went where the data took him and understood what it meant. He wasn't wedded to the hypothesis needing to be right. He clearly understood the why of what happened. He was able to explain and identify the errors and sources of errors in his data and discuss improvements to his experimental methodology. In short, he did real science, not some project from a book which is all laid out nicely, and definitely not some project done more by his parents than by him. He experienced the messiness that real science is, and he was passionate about what he did because it was his idea, not someone else's. It was great work.

The approach that seems to work best as a parent to science fair project is this:
  • Look for those moments when the student asks a "why" question. Those why questions are ripe with science fair possibilities.,
  • Instead of directly answering the why question, try this method: "I don't know, but I can help you find out why..."
  • Help identify some resources for the student to do some reading on the issue.
  • Then, ask some "Why" and "How would you" questions of your own to get them started on how they will do the project.
  • Stay away from the "This is how it should be done", or "This is how I would do it". Let them create their hypothesis, let them create the experiment, let them take the data, let them analyze the results, and let them OWN the project.
  • Be a resource available to them, but stay away from giving them answers.
  • Remember always that this is the student's project, not yours. Your kid's interests may not be your own. Accept that!

Remember, it's not important for the student to get THE right answer
(meaning some pre-determined result or answer that we know they should have gotten), it's important for the student to do good science and find an answer which is supported by their data. The important thing is for the student to be able to clearly explain how they got the result they did, and why the data does or does not support their original hypothesis. They should themselves be able to identify sources of error and understand suggest ways to improve going forward. That's science. Having the most "novel" or unique project at the fair means nothing if it was the parent's project and not the student's.

Oh, and the "glitter" that someone else mentioned? That doesn't impress either. A clear, neat presentation of the work? That's what impresses.

Having said all of that, my son did his 7th grade science fair project on wing aspect ratios. This was after he commented after going to an airshow about the wings of a sailplane vs the wings of a fighter. "Daddy, why do gliders have wings like that?" "I don't know, son, let's see if we can find out..."

He built about 4 or 5 different balsa wood gliders. Each had the same wing area, the same stick fuselage shape, and the same horizontal and vertical tail shape. He kept the weight the same and the CG the same distance from the tail on each glider. One glider had wings which had a 1 inch chord and a wing span of about 24 inches. At the other extreme, the glider had a chord of 6 inches and a span of 4 inches. All the wings were rectangular. He learned quite a bit. The high aspect ratio glider flew quite a long way without much of a launch speed, but required calm air. At higher launch speed, the wings tended to rip off. The low aspect ratio glider flew well also, but required a stronger throw and flew faster. It penetrated turbulent air well, and it could withstand a really hard throw.
 
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Interesting perspective.. Thanks

I totally agree with you on this and how the student should own the idea. The unfortunate way the school is doing it now is they give them a website and say choose one.. I had to get permission from the teacher to do something not on the list.

I will be honest it was my idea to do something that involved flying but he did like the idea about the difference in pressure. He remembered me talking about a pop bottle collapsing in the airplane once and thought that "was cool and asked why it happened"

I don't think science projects are like they used to be :nonod:
 
Interesting perspective.. Thanks

I totally agree with you on this and how the student should own the idea. The unfortunate way the school is doing it now is they give them a website and say choose one.. I had to get permission from the teacher to do something not on the list.

I will be honest it was my idea to do something that involved flying but he did like the idea about the difference in pressure. He remembered me talking about a pop bottle collapsing in the airplane once and thought that "was cool and asked why it happened"

I don't think science projects are like they used to be :nonod:

Wow, what a great way for the school to develop a love of learning and science in their students.. NOT. Not impressed with teachers like that, but I'm thinking it's more common now. Probably has something to do with all these standardized tests, etc. Our son started in a Montessori school, but the student body size started dropping dramatically by 4th grade, so we decided to move him for 4th grade. One of the schools we investigated was, at the time, the "highest rated public elementary school in California" based on STAR test results. (That's not saying much, I know). We were completely unimpressed. The principal told us flat out: "We teach the test, and nothing but the test." She seemed proud of that fact. Someone asked her about students who are advanced. Her response? "We don't want them here, they ask too many questions and can be disruptive." Someone asked about students who might need extra help. Her response? "We don't want them here, they bring our test scores down". She also was proud of the fact that the students didn't get much recess. It was more important to get them back to the class rooms to "learn the test". Idiot. Needless to say, our son didn't go there!

I just edited my previous response to add some details about a project my son did on the effects of wing aspect ratios. That was a pretty cool project.
 
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