Schrodinger's Airplane

[wanttaja]

I had traveled to a nearby city to give a couple of presentations. As I usually do on these trips, I ran through the local antique stores to look for aviation/space items of interest.

REALLY scored this time. The Martin Mars was the biggest airplane produced by the Allies during WWII. It was a long-range seaplane made for the US Navy. Only five were constructed, and all were delivered to the Navy in 1945-1946.

However, Martin had apparently been trying to sell the Mars to civilian airlines for post-war travel. The book I found was a massive blue-leather-bound hard copy book, with gold lettering on the cover.

It's 18 inches wide and 12 high, and inside are a bunch of artist conceptions of the Mars flying passengers, cargo, etc. It's copyright 1944, which is after the prototype flew, but about a year prior to the first production plane coming off the assembly line. NONE of the illustrations show the Mars in Navy livery. The picture below gives it an NX registration number (which is currently assigned to a Stearman).

OK, great find. But here's where things get interesting. Included was a SEALED manila envelope. Here's a shot of the seal:

Note, again, the seal is unbroken.

Now...what the heck do I do with this? Are there illustrations of Martin bombers inside, like the seal says? Or had someone else slipped them out years ago.

I'd LOVE to open it. But I hate the thought of doing so. I could steam the seal off (probably protecting it), I could slice open the opposite end of the envelope, saving the seal.

This was sealed up almost 80 years ago. I kinda hate opening it, and wonder if a more-formal process should be used. Should I contact Geraldo Rivera?

Ron Wanttaja

 

[kyleb]

This was sealed up almost 80 years ago. I kinda hate opening it, and wonder if a more-formal process should be used. Should I contact Geraldo Rivera?

Ron Wanttaja

I think you should dig up Telly Savalas.

As I recall, he pretty much flailed around and destroyed most of what came from the Titanic's safe. On live TV.

 

[X3 Skier]

Contact the nearest Antiques Roadshow and become a STAR! Open it on the show.

 

[luvflyin]

I cannot understand why. Why you could take it from the plant if seal unbroken, but couldn't if was. What's the logic?

 

[Daleandee]

Open it up at AV with a live feed and link it to your U-toob channel ...

Kidding!

 

[GaryM]

I think you should dig up Telly Savalas.

As I recall, he pretty much flailed around and destroyed most of what came from the Titanic's safe. On live TV.

Yep. It was Geraldo who hosted the opening of Al Capone’s vault on live TV. George Plimpton and Peter Gimbel opened the purser’s safe from the Andrea Doria on TV. None of these revealed much of anything valuable.

 

[Matthew]

Maybe use a razor and cut along the far edge of the envelope, leave the seal intact? (what you already proposed)

 

[luvflyin]

Open it up at AV with a live feed and link it to your U-toob channel ...

Kidding!

What's AV?

 

[luvflyin]

I had traveled to a nearby city to give a couple of presentations. As I usually do on these trips, I ran through the local antique stores to look for aviation/space items of interest.

REALLY scored this time. The Martin Mars was the biggest airplane produced by the Allies during WWII. It was a long-range seaplane made for the US Navy. Only five were constructed, and all were delivered to the Navy in 1945-1946.

However, Martin had apparently been trying to sell the Mars to civilian airlines for post-war travel. The book I found was a massive blue-leather-bound hard copy book, with gold lettering on the cover.
View attachment 118940
It's 18 inches wide and 12 high, and inside are a bunch of artist conceptions of the Mars flying passengers, cargo, etc. It's copyright 1944, which is after the prototype flew, but about a year prior to the first production plane coming off the assembly line. NONE of the illustrations show the Mars in Navy livery. The picture below gives it an NX registration number (which is currently assigned to a Stearman).
View attachment 118942
OK, great find. But here's where things get interesting. Included was a SEALED manila envelope. Here's a shot of the seal:
View attachment 118943
Note, again, the seal is unbroken.

Now...what the heck do I do with this? Are there illustrations of Martin bombers inside, like the seal says? Or had someone else slipped them out years ago.

I'd LOVE to open it. But I hate the thought of doing so. I could steam the seal off (probably protecting it), I could slice open the opposite end of the envelope, saving the seal.

This was sealed up almost 80 years ago. I kinda hate opening it, and wonder if a more-formal process should be used. Should I contact Geraldo Rivera?

Ron Wanttaja

Get some xray specs and have peek...

 

[wanttaja]

I cannot understand why. Why you could take it from the plant if seal unbroken, but couldn't if was. What's the logic?

The seal was an official one; if a gate guard saw an envelope closed with that seal, he knew the transfer of material was official and the material could pass. Lot harder to counterfeit stuff like that, back then.

Went through similar myself, ~30 years ago. We carried classified material between Seattle and Washington DC. Agreement with airport security is that if had the official seals, the package could pass through without getting X-rayed. Occasionally, you'd get a new guard that INSISTED it had to be x-rayed, and we'd have to have him call his supervisor.

We'd get early boarding, put the package in the overhead, and sit down below it. One time, another passenger saw this wrapped package and said, "Hey, is this a bomb?"

I once asked my security folks why we weren't carrying it in briefcases handcuffed to our risks. He said, "We lose too many engerineer's hands that way...."

Ron Wanttaja

 

[wanttaja]

What's AV?

AirVenture (e.g., EAA at Oshkosh).

In fact, I know the curator of the EAA Museum. I'll probably drop him a line.

Ron Wanttaja

 

[tspear]

I would contact a large history museum. They would likely know someone who could answer on the best way to open and preserve as much as possible.
Some of them even might be interested in doing so.

Or even try a university.

Tim

 

[rwellner98]

Now...what the heck do I do with this? Are there illustrations of Martin bombers inside, like the seal says? Or had someone else slipped them out years ago.

Can you tell if the envelope has anything just by touch? Or by candling it with a bright LED?

 

[MooneyDriver78]

Looks like it was already opened, look at the paper below the label, it looks to me that something adhesive was removed.

 

[wanttaja]

Can you tell if the envelope has anything just by touch? Or by candling it with a bright LED?

I've held it up to the sun, nothing is coming through the envelope and the papers within. Feeling it, there IS something inside. I can feel the edges of papers, etc. within. It's a big envelope, almost the same size as the book itself (12" high by 18" wide). I don't think we're in a Al Capone Vault situation, though there might just be a piece of paper saying, "Sorry, Der Fuehrer as already received these."

I'll say that the additional thickness isn't much. If 20-weight paper there doesn't appear to be many of them. No way they're photographs, unless it's just one sheet.

It's interesting to consider the "Why" of the label as well:

DO NOT BREAK THIS SEAL​

This envelope contains four colored ​

reproductions of Martin bombers and ​

may be taken from the plant without ​

additional pass IF THIS SEAL IS UN-​

BROKEN."​

Think about it: This is a pre-printed label. This wasn't done in the 21st century, when anybody could generate a similar sticker in a heartbeat. These had to be printed in advance, and they are damned specific: "Four colored reproductions of Martin bombers...." This looks like it was a standard PR package of some sort.

It's fun, too, to speculate what four are included (assuming they aren't just different views of the same aircraft).

B-26 Marauder - for sure
Martin Maryland? Built for foreign customers, would Martin had included them in a domestic PR pack?
Martin Baltimore? Same issue
Martin Mariner? Probably, but would they have included it in a group of "bombers". Yes, it was a patrol bomber, but still....
Martin Mars? Probably, just from the PR point of view, but it wasn't, technically, a bomber.
Martin Mauler? The prototype didn't make its first flight until late 1944, so it's possible.
B-29? Martin made those under license, would they include them in a company PR package?

Looks like it was already opened, look at the paper below the label, it looks to me that something adhesive was removed.

There's some sort of scrape or something there, for sure. I took that for scuffed paper where tape or something had been applied and pulled away.

Another thing that's interesting is that all the seams on the envelope have a darker strip visible...I've taken it as 80-year-old glue getting darker. Look at the photo above, it's visible under the flap and especially under the seam running to the right. The flaps where the envelope was closed on the other end (the "permanent" closures) have the dark area underneath them as well.

Ron Wanttaja

 

[Zeldman]

Be careful....could be naked pictures of Winston Churchhill....

 

[Half Fast]

Went through similar myself, ~30 years ago. We carried classified material between Seattle and Washington DC. Agreement with airport security is that if had the official seals, the package could pass through without getting X-rayed. Occasionally, you'd get a new guard that INSISTED it had to be x-rayed, and we'd have to have him call his supervisor.

Yep, same here. Back in the late '80s and early '90s I occasionally carried Lockheed (Martin Marietta back then) stuff back and forth to subcontractors. Once going through airport security with a sealed box containing a scanner for a 2nd gen FLIR we were developing, the airport security guy insisted that I open it:

HIM - "Open the box, take it out, and plug it in. I want to see it function."

ME - "Uh, sir, it doesn't plug into a wall socket. It plugs into the targeting system on an F-16. Do you have one handy? Also it's electrostatic sensitive, so I'll need an ESD workstation and a grounding strap."

Finally I convinced him to call a supervisor over. The supervisor glanced at the company courier letter I had, looked at my ID, and said "Go." Took all of 30 seconds.

I seldom had trouble at the Orlando airport. The people there were accustomed to seeing our company folks traveling with all sorts of hardware and classified documents and they knew the drill. The problems usually came when I was at some small-town airport in a place where we had a supplier.

 

[Hang 4]

Heat gun

 

[Half Fast]

BTW, Ron, you might contact Lockheed Martin. They might be interested in the book or have some info about it in the archives. At LM - Missiles & Fire Control, we had a small museum with all sorts of company historical artifacts.

 

[Half Fast]

I found the "RESTRICTED" marking interesting.

​

I wonder what that might have meant back in the 1940s. Today that's a security classification in the UK but the US doesn't use it. When we receive a document from the Brits marked "restricted" we have to bump it up a level and treat it as though it were classified "confidential." Makes me wonder whether those photos behind the seal could have caused the document to be classified "restricted."

 

[wanttaja]

I found the "RESTRICTED" marking interesting.

View attachment 118963​

I wonder what that might have meant back in the 1940s. Today that's a security classification in the UK but the US doesn't use it. When we receive a document from the Brits marked "restricted" we have to bump it up a level and treat it as though it were classified "confidential." Makes me wonder whether those photos behind the seal could have caused the document to be classified "restricted."

Here's the first page of the overhaul manual for the main Link Trainers during WWII:

Note that it, too, was originally marked "RESTRICTED". Only the title page is so marked; there aren't markings on the following pages. Both Germany and Japan had Link Trainers, so one might assume they'd already been given the same information.
Also have a flight manual for P-51A, which is also marked as RESTRICTED on the first page. It also includes this:

This document contains information affecting the national defense of the United States within the meaning of the Espionage Act, U.S.C 50:31 and 32. Its transmission or the revelation of its contents in any many to any unauthorized person is prohibited by law.

Ron Wanttaja

 

[Half Fast]

So possibly the US was using “RESTRICTED” back then.

No, it’s not a high classification level. Basically treated much like company proprietary info. Has to be kept in a locked desk or file cabinet, but no safe required. No controls on copying, IIRC.

It would be interesting to know how it came to the antique store. Estate sale? Wonder who had it.

 

[Daleandee]

Maybe give Geraldo Rivera a call ... he's good at this!

 

[L J Donelson]

Be careful....could be naked pictures of Winston Churchhill....

Naked pictures or pictures of naked Winston?

I mean, if you're going to post that it's going to catch the eye and then people are going to want to know!

 

[aterry1067]

I’m sure you’re probably already aware, but if not, there looks to be a museum in Maryland with quite a bit of history regarding the Martin Mars, the Glenn L. Martin Maryland Aviation Museum.

Mars History | glennmartinmuseum

www.mdairmuseum.org

On the historical page it states that in early 1944 the Navy had ordered 20 Mars Transports, but with larger engines and a slightly altered fuselage and tail. The pics in the envelope could be of the aircraft the Navy had ordered, since no pics of military aircraft appear in the book.

It might be worth it to give the museum a call and see if you can talk to one of the authors of the website article.

 

[wanttaja]

It would be interesting to know how it came to the antique store. Estate sale? Wonder who had it.

Not sure if I could find out. It was in a display case in a five-story antique mall, where individual vendors apparently rent floor space and the services of the sales staff. Was walking by one cabinet filled with the usual ash-and-trash of these places. Glassware, old toys, antique tools. Saw a big blue book propped up in the back. Figured it was just an old high school yearbook or someone's scrapbook. The gold-printed title was near the bottom, mostly blocked by other items in the cabinet. Just glancing at it, I saw "___MARS". Moving around a bit, I could see it said "___RTIN MARS". Didn't need Vanna to provide the rest. Trotted back to get a sales clerk to unlock the cabinet and pull it out. A very quick page-through revealed it was, indeed, about the Martin Mars. Didn't even get a close look at it until late the next day...I had presentations at the local EAA chapter and Boeing in Everett.

It came with a cardboard box the same color blue as the book cover. Had "Martin Mars" in Dymo Labelmaker on the side of the box.

So don't have any idea how it ended up here...3,000 miles from Martin's headquarters.

It's waaaay cool, but can't be displayed like the rest of my collection. Will probably trade it to a museum, if I can find one with a Link Trainer attitude indicator they are willing to give up.

I’m sure you’re probably already aware, but if not, there looks to be a museum in Maryland with quite a bit of history regarding the Martin Mars, the Glenn L. Martin Maryland Aviation Museum.

Mars History | glennmartinmuseum

www.mdairmuseum.org

On the historical page it states that in early 1944 the Navy had ordered 20 Mars Transports, but with larger engines and a slightly altered fuselage and tail. The pics in the envelope could be of the aircraft the Navy had ordered, since no pics of military aircraft appear in the book.

It might be worth it to give the museum a call and see if you can talk to one of the authors of the website article.

Actually, no, I hadn't heard of that museum...obliged for the link. The Mars prototype had a twin V-tail like the Mariner, while the first production aircraft came off the line in July 1945 with the conventional tail. At the end of the war, the Navy cancelled the production contract with the exception of the four that were actually on the production line. Two still exist up here in the Pacific Northwest (up in British Columbia), which have been involved in negotiations to put one or both into museums. One has been repainted into its military scheme; the other (red and white) flew to the Oshkosh Fly-In a few years back.

Ron Wanttaja

 

[jsstevens]

Not sure if I could find out. It was in a display case in a five-story antique mall, where individual vendors apparently rent floor space and the services of the sales staff. Was walking by one cabinet filled with the usual ash-and-trash of these places. Glassware, old toys, antique tools. Saw a big blue book propped up in the back. Figured it was just an old high school yearbook or someone's scrapbook. The gold-printed title was near the bottom, mostly blocked by other items in the cabinet. Just glancing at it, I saw "___MARS". Moving around a bit, I could see it said "___RTIN MARS". Didn't need Vanna to provide the rest. Trotted back to get a sales clerk to unlock the cabinet and pull it out. A very quick page-through revealed it was, indeed, about the Martin Mars. Didn't even get a close look at it until late the next day...I had presentations at the local EAA chapter and Boeing in Everett.

It came with a cardboard box the same color blue as the book cover. Had "Martin Mars" in Dymo Labelmaker on the side of the box.

So don't have any idea how it ended up here...3,000 miles from Martin's headquarters.

It's waaaay cool, but can't be displayed like the rest of my collection. Will probably trade it to a museum, if I can find one with a Link Trainer attitude indicator they are willing to give up.


Actually, no, I hadn't heard of that museum...obliged for the link. The Mars prototype had a twin V-tail like the Mariner, while the first production aircraft came off the line in July 1945 with the conventional tail. At the end of the war, the Navy cancelled the production contract with the exception of the four that were actually on the production line. Two still exist up here in the Pacific Northwest (up in British Columbia), which have been involved in negotiations to put one or both into museums. One has been repainted into its military scheme; the other (red and white) flew to the Oshkosh Fly-In a few years back.

Ron Wanttaja

Weren't those two being used as fire bombers a while back?

 

[wanttaja]

Weren't those two being used as fire bombers a while back?

Yep.


This one flew to EAA AirVenture about seven years ago.

The other one had been repainted in the original Navy colors, but the transfer was cancelled after the 2016 election. According to Wikipedia, they're getting ready to transfer the red and white one to a museum in British Columbia.

This was the largest plane built by the Allies during WWII, and the largest production plane (the Germans had a bigger seaplane built only built one). Out of curiosity, I compared its dimensions to the Hughes H-1 (Spruce Goose). The Mars had a wingspan about 2/3rds that of the Spruce Goose, and a fuselage about half as long. Airbus A380 has a wingspan almost exactly between the two, and a fuselage ~20 feet longer than the Hughes aircraft.

Ron Wanttaja

 

[jsstevens]

I thought so. I remember reading an interesting article in AOPA Mag about the maintenance that went into keeping them flying. Sourcing parts, etc.

 

[Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe]

This one flew to EAA AirVenture about seven years ago.

Video of that trip plus a tour of the inside of one of them... https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLc9R0Ar11YH1UOS-Z0WOz7mAgwhU8ZJaI

 

[wanttaja]

I’m sure you’re probably already aware, but if not, there looks to be a museum in Maryland with quite a bit of history regarding the Martin Mars, the Glenn L. Martin Maryland Aviation Museum.

I did hear back from the archivist at the Martin Museum. He verified that Martin did try to sell the airplane to the airlines, and issued a number of books like mine. They have several.

He said the pictures in the sealed envelope would be the B-26, the PBM, the A-30 Baltimore, and the Mars.

Ron Wanttaja

 

[aterry1067]

I did hear back from the archivist at the Martin Museum. He verified that Martin did try to sell the airplane to the airlines, and issued a number of books like mine. They have several.

He said the pictures in the sealed envelope would be the B-26, the PBM, the A-30 Baltimore, and the Mars.

Ron Wanttaja

That’s amazing. Thanks for the update!

 

[Half Fast]

So,......

Will you open the envelope?

 

[wanttaja]

So,......

Will you open the envelope?

Still inclined to leave it. Been talking with someone at the EAA Museum, and I have a referral to a man at Seattle's Museum of Flight. See what they say....

I'm hoping to see a jpg of the drawings without having to open the envelope myself.

Ron Wanttaja

 

[Half Fast]

If the Martin museum has several books and one has the envelope opened, maybe he'd scan them for you.

 

[wanttaja]

If the Martin museum has several books and one has the envelope opened, maybe he'd scan them for you.

Hate to hassle him about it. If I were there, I'd just shoot photos with my phone.

Did a search for "Martin B-26 Lithograph" and this came up...suspecting it's one of the images in the envelope.


Ron Wanttaja

 

[bflynn]

The other one had been repainted in the original Navy colors, but the transfer was cancelled after the 2016 election. According to Wikipedia, they're getting ready to transfer the red and white one to a museum in British Columbia.

perhaps the museum in BC is a candidate? If they have the plane, a marketing book would go nicely with it.

not sure what they might trade other than loonies.

 

[wanttaja]

Talked to two folks at museums, they both said to go ahead and open the envelope...no historical reason for keeping it closed. Made sort of a ceremony of it, at my EAA meeting tonight.





Ron Wanttaja

 

[robin ardoin]

Awesome!!!

 

[Half Fast]

You should have those framed.