School me, what is the appeal of Land Rovers?

Because most hatchbacks aren't visually appealing. We often associate a vehicle's design with a the female form, describing them with words like "sleek" or "sexy". No one describes a Honda Civic Hatchback or Mazda 5 as "sexy". If you have a Jaguar XF and a Jaguar XF Sportbrake side-by-side, most people will prefer the appearance of the sedan. The Cadillac CTS-V looked better than the CTS-V Wagon. Utility usually comes second behind appearance for most American car buyers.
Good thing we don't rely on you to determine sexy haha! I think every hatch model you listed is better looking than the sedan counterpart. Personally I wouldn't get either as a crossover is more practical and just as efficient. When it comes to a daily driver I could care less about sex appeal or sportiness.
 
I was thinking about the best way to answer this as someone who's owned two Land Rovers and have owned upper luxury cars for most of my driving career. Keep in mind, with the exception of our current Alfa Romeo, 100% of them were bought used - a number of them were actually given to me for free (granted in need of work).

Studies by some people who study these things more than me have determined that decision making is emotional. Obviously there is a practical aspect, but that can drive some level of emotion. Spending money that you don't have and can't afford to spend tends to cause stress, so that's a negative emotion we want to avoid. Maintenance issues cause stress. Some don't like the emotions that go with what they perceive as a flashy car, or a gas guzzler. Etc.

When you look at it through the lens of an emotional decision, then you're buying it because it provides you with positive emotions, or at least more positive emotions than negative ones. It makes you feel good. Maybe it's how the car makes you feel when you look at it, maybe it's how you feel when you look at, touch, and feel the interior. And yes, there are a number for whom the positive feeling is how they feel when they perceive people seeing them in their status symbol of a car. Practically speaking, no, they don't do anything that you can't do with a cheaper alternative. If you can afford to spend the money, then that cost doesn't bother you enough to outweigh any of the other issues. Cars are not strictly utilitarian or practical for all people, even people who aren't necessarily auto enthusiasts. If you want a vehicle that is strictly practical and does the job, look at what was created by the Soviets, and realize that none of us want those.

Like I said, I've owned upper luxury cars for almost my entire adult life. My first car was a 1982 Jaguar XJ-S V12 that I bought for $1,000. I've owned close to a dozen Jaguars over the years, two Land Rovers (a '97 Range Rover 4.6 HSE and now the '97 Discovery), some Mercedes and BMWs, couple Cadillacs and a Lincoln, and we now have the Alfa Romeo. I'm sure I'm forgetting a few. I've also owned my share of standard types, as basic as my C2500 retired work truck with vinyl seating and no cruise control. I think it came with an AM/FM radio. All of the luxury cars I've owned except for the Alfa were purchased used (I'll get to finances in a bit).

I couldn't care less about being seen driving any of these things. For the amount of **** I've gotten over the years, it would've be easier to just drive more unassuming cars that didn't get attention. But despite being an engineer (and thus a practical being devoid of most emotions - and certainly lacking any ability at humor), it's vehicles that stir my soul. No, they don't have to be expensive - a Mustang is a plenty fun car, and I've loved my couple of Excursions I owned, plus my diesel Rams. But, the higher end vehicles do tend to get more attention to detail when it comes to interior design and materials. The driving experience (and I'm talking feel, not numbers) is generally better with these higher tier cars - and specifically with the highest level ones, and they do have more of the little details that improve the experience. Basically, I love the way these vehicles make me feel when I drive them - all of them. It's about the driving experience. Back before I had my driver's license, one of my cousins 15-20 years my senior (someone who has given me a lot of advice over the years - all of it wrong) told me that driving would become a chore and I would find I wasn't so excited about it after a while. Of all the dumb things he's told me, that was probably the dumbest (or at least the most wrong). But, I'm not driving a newer front wheel drive Chevy Malibu. I'm driving cars that make me smile when I look at them before getting in, that excite my skin when I sit down and touch the interior, and that stir my soul when I push the gas pedal.

If bought right and if you have the inclination and skill to work on them yourself, they can be fairly practical. The values fall faster from new than an Aztec in a slip with full flaps, and so it doesn't take long before used examples are for sale much cheaper than same year, same mileage counterparts in the "normal" makes. I'm glad to see so many people who aren't interested in buying those - it means more are out there for me to buy.

When my wife and I got married, she had thought that there wasn't anything to these upper end cars. She absolutely does not care about "being seen" in one, and if anything doesn't like driving something that gains extra attention. Her first upper luxury car was a '97 BMW 740iL (bought with 140,000 miles for $4k). Yes, it needed work, and I got that work done. But that also really showed her that there was, in fact, a difference in how those cars drove. She loved it, she loved my E55, and then when it was time to get a replacement for her SUV, she wanted a GL550. Now we have the Alfa Romeo Stelvio Quadrifoglio. We both absolutely love driving the car, and it makes me smile to look at. We've owned it for a year and a half and had a few minor issues, but has only been to the dealer once for an oil change.

Will it depreciate? Of course it will. But we're keeping it a long time, and because nobody wants to buy an Alfa Romeo, we bought it for a significant markdown from MSRP during a time when most people were paying well over MSRP. It was actually a good value, and much cheaper than we would've spent on a new Jeep Wagoneer (or especially a Grand Wagoneer, or even a Grand Cherokee with a Hemi). With used car values at the time, we sold our 22 year old XKR for a profit vs. 2 years prior when I'd bought it, and sold our GL550 for what we paid for it 4 years and 40k miles prior.

It was both an emotional and practical decision.
All that being said, I view you as very different from the standard soccer mom, mall cruiser.
 
Because most hatchbacks aren't visually appealing. We often associate a vehicle's design with a the female form, describing them with words like "sleek" or "sexy". No one describes a Honda Civic Hatchback or Mazda 5 as "sexy". If you have a Jaguar XF and a Jaguar XF Sportbrake side-by-side, most people will prefer the appearance of the sedan. The Cadillac CTS-V looked better than the CTS-V Wagon. Utility usually comes second behind appearance for most American car buyers. Americans often use trucks or SUVs when they need something with utility, and leave the wagons/hatchbacks on the dealer lots.
Does anyone find the ubiquitous Camrys or Accords "sexy"? To each their own, but I find a GTI or the BMW/Mercedes hatch variants that are available in Europe far more attractive than the generic sedans you see all over in the states.
 
Does anyone find the ubiquitous Camrys or Accords "sexy"? To each their own, but I find a GTI or the BMW/Mercedes hatch variants that are available in Europe far more attractive than the generic sedans you see all over in the states.
Even with Mercedes, a CLA250 is sexier than a GLA250. The GLA250 may as well be a Maxda CX-5, not terrible for what it is, but just not as good-looking as the sedan variants. Again, in the US, consumers prefer going to SUVs if they need the utility that a hatch offers. Sometimes, the sedan has more trunk volume than the hatchback-variant does, if you need occupants in all 4 seats. Europe also has functional size limitations in many areas, which makes American SUVs tough to squeeze in for parking and narrow lanes. The US doesn't have that problem in most areas, so having a taller/wider SUV doesn't present any issues.
 
Sometimes, the sedan has more trunk volume than the hatchback-variant does
Are there many examples of that? That is counter to my understanding.
In my GTI I can fit 90" lumber, corner to corner, if I put the seats down. No sedan will allow for that. (And that's much longer than my father-in-law can get in his pickup!)
And I don't even have the longer VW hatch! (Sportwagon)
 
I rented a Range Rover Evoque a few years ago during a trip, and I loved it. It was very comfortable, plenty of power, and handled well. I’d happily buy one if I ran up on the right deal.

I do find it very ironic that the discussion is about the silliness of spending $100k or more on a flashy vehicle on a forum where most of the participants would have zero problems with someone spending twice that on a 60 year old spam can airplane. Lol. If we only made our purchases based on utility and good financial decisions, very few of us would actually have an airplane at all.

We buy what makes us happy. As @Ted pointed out, it’s emotional.
 
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I do find it very ironic that the discussion is about the silliness of spending $100k or more on a flashy vehicle on a forum where most of the participants would have zero problems with someone spending twice that on a 60 year old spam can airplane. Lol. If we only made our purchases based on utility and good financial decisions, very few of us would actually have an airplane at all.
I think there's some notable differences:
(1) The availability of substitutes -- the alternative to a 100k$ spam can is a 500k$ Cirrus (or comparable newer plane)
(2) The duration we keep the vehicle -- people often keep airplanes for 10, 20+ years.. A lot of the people dumping 100k$ into a car are flipping them every couple years to be in the latest model.
(3) The purpose of the vehicle -- airplanes are great for generating experiences and opening up travel possibilities and building memories. Cars... yeah not so much* for your average G-Wagon driver.

*there are clear exceptions, like Mr Ted above who seems to get a particular kick out of working on and driving in his vehicles. Though I don't think that's the norm.
 
*there are clear exceptions, like Mr Ted above who seems to get a particular kick out of working on and driving in his vehicles. Though I don't think that's the norm.

I definitely agree that my motivations aren't the norm, but the proverbial "American love affair with the car" clearly doesn't apply only to the few like me. There just aren't enough of us.

Even applied to my mother, a woman who lacked any sort of interest in or knowledge of cars, and isn't who you would call a highly emotional, flamboyant sort of person, bought cars based on emotion. Her two cars were a fire engine red Volvo, and a "Caribbean blue" Infiniti G35. For her, she liked the interesting colors, she liked the feeling the Volvo gave her of being a solid (safe) brick. The Infiniti she liked the color and the look of the interior, and also its feeling of being good build quality. She actually liked the Volvo better, though, and will still comment on how much she liked it.

Go back to her youth, and she'd wanted to buy a Triumph TR6. My grandfather gave her one of his old Fords instead - fearing she wouldn't be safe in the Triumph. He was probably right - she was a terrible driver.

When you dig into it, not all cars with personality are owned by people with personalities that inherently match. However, I think you'll find that there is something somewhere that excites those people to some degree, or at least be able to find that emotion that motivated them somewhere. The particulars are different for everyone.
 
For practicality, an Explorer type SUV is great. My last company car was an Explorer. It was comfortable, and it could haul a lot. Negatives - it wasn't very reliable, guzzled gas like an out of control alcoholic, and a minor collision not even deploying the airbag totaled it. Now the typical squashed bug looking crossover SUV is worthless in my opinion. Very little interior space in comparison.

What do I drive? A Sentra sedan. The trunk is actually fairly large and the seat folds, so I can stuff a full size bike in the thing. It's fairly roomy on the interior despite its small size, and gets great mileage. It has AC, a heater, power locks, windows and a radio. A BMW sedan has AC, a heater, power locks, windows and a radio. Sometimes I ride in coworkers 4 series BMW sedan. The Sentra is actually more comfortable to sit in. Yes, the BMW is faster but neither one of us drives on the Autobahn so what does it matter. Oh, and maintenance...
 
Are there many examples of that? That is counter to my understanding.
In my GTI I can fit 90" lumber, corner to corner, if I put the seats down. No sedan will allow for that. (And that's much longer than my father-in-law can get in his pickup!)
And I don't even have the longer VW hatch! (Sportwagon)
I believe there was a Ford Focus around 2018 or so where the wasn't a difference in trunk volume on the trunk vs hatchback. The new Honda Civic vs Civic Hatch technically has more "volume" in pure dimensions, but the extra length of the trunk-model made fitting standard luggage much easier than on the Hatch. Unless you had a tiny bag/triangular shaped package that would fit between the hatchback glass and the rear seat headrests, the extra volume didn't prove very usable. Hatchbacks obviously excel with taller/bulkier packages due to the larger opening. Obviously that all is dependent on needing the rear seats upright, once you can drop the seatbacks, the hatches have a pretty big advantage. The pure "volume" number doesn't always tell the full story.

 
Now the typical squashed bug looking crossover SUV is worthless in my opinion. Very little interior space in comparison
In comparison to what? The bigger Explorer, sure. A comparable sedan, the CUV is hard to beat for most. Since you drive a Nissan I'll use that as a comparison.

2024 Altima $25,700 starting msrp 27/39 mpg 33 combined
2024 Rogue $27,900 Starting MSRP 30/37 mpg 33.5 combined

Unless 2k busted my budget the Rogue seems like a much more practical car which I suspect is one of the reasons sedans are dying.
 
In comparison to what? The bigger Explorer, sure. A comparable sedan, the CUV is hard to beat for most. Since you drive a Nissan I'll use that as a comparison.

2024 Altima $25,700 starting msrp 27/39 mpg 33 combined
2024 Rogue $27,900 Starting MSRP 30/37 mpg 33.5 combined

Unless 2k busted my budget the Rogue seems like a much more practical car which I suspect is one of the reasons sedans are dying.
I think in that particular example using a full size sedan, you have a point. There aren't too many comparable SUV's in a compact sedan class. I get 40+ combined mileage in the Sentra. It's a shame that Honda no longer makes the Element. I drove one of those around for a while. Great utility, but crappy mileage however.
 
Jeremy Clarkson, in the show Clarkson's Farm, seems to only really drive a LR. And he uses it as a pickup truck a lot. I know he probably has a barn full of cars, but for the most part, he is shown driving and using one vehicle. I know the focus of the show is "to do farming", but he doesnt seem to have to take the LR in for service.
 
Jeremy Clarkson, in the show Clarkson's Farm, seems to only really drive a LR. And he uses it as a pickup truck a lot. I know he probably has a barn full of cars, but for the most part, he is shown driving and using one vehicle. I know the focus of the show is "to do farming", but he doesnt seem to have to take the LR in for service.
idk what it is but LR's don't seem to have as many problems over seas. I have a friend in Spain and he swears the LR is one of the most reliable cars. There was a youtube video on Jeremy and his LR that is used on Clarksons Farm. He does in fact drive it all the time and has been very happy with it's reliability. He does go on to bash other year models though so perhaps there were a few good years mixed in somewhere.
 
The Sasquatch hunting folks here in town drive a Land Rover.

Since they appear to be a non-profit then a lot of folks must be donating lots cash.

(actual photo of big foot)

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Sometimes, the sedan has more trunk volume than the hatchback-variant does, if you need occupants in all 4 seats.

Are there many examples of that? That is counter to my understanding.
In my GTI I can fit 90" lumber, corner to corner, if I put the seats down. No sedan will allow for that. (And that's much longer than my father-in-law can get in his pickup!)
Speaking from experience, 4 people plus a weeks worth of baggage plus souvenirs is far less challenging in a Camry than a GTI. If one of them is an infant then strollers and cribs are involved and all bets are off.
 
Speaking from experience, 4 people plus a weeks worth of baggage plus souvenirs is far less challenging in a Camry than a GTI. If one of them is an infant then strollers and cribs are involved and all bets are off.
Howso? I'm reading that a GTI has 20 cubic feet of trunk space where a Camry has 15
 
Howso? I'm reading that a GTI has 20 cubic feet of trunk space where a Camry has 15
As I mentioned above (and the Car & Driver linked article), the shape of that volume is usually at play. Having an extra 2-3 cu ft of storage space in the shape of a triangle near the roof isn't generally as helpful when all you have are rectangle-shaped bags. Sometimes the layout is more imperative than the total available volume. Same goes for large trunk volumes that have comically small trunk lid openings (see 2010+ Chevrolet Camaro).
 
As I mentioned above (and the Car & Driver linked article), the shape of that volume is usually at play. Having an extra 2-3 cu ft of storage space in the shape of a triangle near the roof isn't generally as helpful when all you have are rectangle-shaped bags. Sometimes the layout is more imperative than the total available volume. Same goes for large trunk volumes that have comically small trunk lid openings (see 2010+ Chevrolet Camaro).
Yup. And note that I said "less challenging" rather than "more space". If bags are stacked to a height above the rear seat back, where do you put the cargo cover? How do you keep them from flying around the cabin? How do you see out the rear window? How do you keep them from prying eyes?
 
I don't get it either. I've never been interested in having an SUV or a truck. That's fine, though. It doesn't bother me that other people are.
 
Yup. And note that I said "less challenging" rather than "more space". If bags are stacked to a height above the rear seat back, where do you put the cargo cover? How do you keep them from flying around the cabin? How do you see out the rear window? How do you keep them from prying eyes?
I see. The cargo cover is easily removable on my GTI for what that's worth, and I do it often when we travel with a lot of things. (I have one kid).
You are right though that it then stays at home if we take it off for the trip because there's nowhere else to put it.

And I always have the option to put one half of the rear seats down for complete pass-through if I want.

Though I noticed these horrible hinges that go down onto your things are still on Toyotas? My wife had them on her Corolla before we got married and sold it, but these things were infuriating. These are a sedan thing:

2020-Toyota-Camry-Luggage-Test-all-bags~2.jpg
 
As I mentioned above (and the Car & Driver linked article), the shape of that volume is usually at play. Having an extra 2-3 cu ft of storage space in the shape of a triangle near the roof isn't generally as helpful when all you have are rectangle-shaped bags. Sometimes the layout is more imperative than the total available volume. Same goes for large trunk volumes that have comically small trunk lid openings (see 2010+ Chevrolet Camaro).
Thing is, all the crossovers are just fat hatchbacks. The shape is the same - the size is different.
 
Been driving BMW X-3 for 20 years. First one I picked up in Munich and kept for 10 years. When it sort of disintegrated after 189000 miles and with no major repairs up till then, I figured why not get another one. Unfortunately, BMW stopped European Delivery by then so I picked up a "leftover" 2016 and the only drawback was no manual transmissions in the USA anymore but the 10% below MSRP and 0% financing for the whole tab sort of balanced that out. Pushing 110K miles now and again, no problems so far.

I like the way it drives and the occasional Rent-A-Car experience raises the like to love. I had a unnamed vehicle a few months ago an it felt like I was driving a waterbed. OTOH, driving some newer BMW's, they seem to be tuning then to the soccer mom and funeral director market now so I'm happy i've probably bought my last car.
 
Our current Land Rover, a 1997 Discovery, that we tow behind our RV. Well, we will tow it behind our RV again once I get a new engine in it.

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Your Disco makes me miss my Disco
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Real off-road requires a Toyota Land Cruiser.... picture from near Berbera, Somalia. More places can fix a Toyota too.

Somalia.jpg
 
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I've always imagined the older ones must be pretty good to have amassed such a reputation. Occasionally I'll see those older ones restored and I think it would be a blast to have one...they were more utilitarian, like the older jeeps, IH Scouts, and old Land Cruisers (probably up through about the 1970's I suppose)
 
A good friend is a certified range rover mechanic. All the time he is asked by customers if they bought a lemon and his response is always no you bought a range rover. Toyota for me.
 
If a Land Rover was good enough for Jim and Marlin, then it is good enough for me...

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While Jim drives, Marlin sits in the passenger seat wondering if his life insurance from Mutual of Omaha will pay off if an accident happens while racing a horse...
 
I had a range rover sport with 520 HP and the V8 growl and thlrow you back in your seat acceleration while driving a car as smooth and quiet as a cadillac is a nice experience. Won’t get that in many SUVs that have legit offroad capability, with decent tires. Drive a defender 110 as my daily driver now, still really nice on road manners, not a rocket like the sport but a serious off roader with creature comforts and tech you won’t find on any other SUV that I am aware of like factory snorkel, wading depth sensors, built in air compressor, winch etc. have a couple of Jeeps that will outclimb it, but won’t touch it in comfort or class. Never had a mechanical issue with a rover. Pulled a few jeeps out of the muck (mostly my kids). But 6000 lbs empty with a winch and hard pull points on every corner it is a recovery beast.

IMG_8936.jpeg
 
Life’s too short to drive a Toyota. Enjoy your self, embrace technology and modern sound deadening
 
I had a range rover sport with 520 HP and the V8 growl and thlrow you back in your seat acceleration while driving a car as smooth and quiet as a cadillac is a nice experience. Won’t get that in many SUVs that have legit offroad capability, with decent tires. Drive a defender 110 as my daily driver now, still really nice on road manners, not a rocket like the sport but a serious off roader with creature comforts and tech you won’t find on any other SUV that I am aware of like factory snorkel, wading depth sensors, built in air compressor, winch etc. have a couple of Jeeps that will outclimb it, but won’t touch it in comfort or class. Never had a mechanical issue with a rover. Pulled a few jeeps out of the muck (mostly my kids). But 6000 lbs empty with a winch and hard pull points on every corner it is a recovery beast.

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I'll bet it'll crawl right over that curb at the mall.
 
Asking, "what's the appeal of Land Rovers?" is like asking, "what's the appeal of blondes?"...same arguments too: They are astonishingly expensive. They don't have a good reputation for reliability and they have high depreciation. 5 year cost of ownership is just at $100K

Yet, they are still in demand!
 
Asking, "what's the appeal of Land Rovers?" is like asking, "what's the appeal of blondes?"...same arguments too: They are astonishingly expensive. They don't have a good reputation for reliability and they have high depreciation. 5 year cost of ownership is just at $100K

Yet, they are still in demand!

As a blonde, I take offense to this stereotype.

I am not only in exceedingly low demand, my cost of ownership is far in excess of $100k in a 5 year period.

I am, however, very unreliable.

Please get your facts straight in the future.
 
I had a friend who bought an H2 years back. I said "Please tell me you didn't get it in yellow." Yep. I refer to his car as the special ed bus.
 
Status symbol for young urban professionals
 
I still have a 2001 Discovery that I bought used in 2006. It has about 200k on it now and while yea, I've had to take a wrench to it now and then it has never broken down or left us stranded and is capable of going just about anywhere. The D2 was the last solid axle body on frame model, same design as Range Rovers and Defenders and the same basic aluminum Rover pushrod V8 that was around since the sixties. The new stuff I don't know much about.
 
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