Scary Crosswind Takeoff in a Skycatcher

[labbadabba]

So here in Kansas, most airports have a single North/South runway. I was getting some X/C time and hopped over to KEMP with a 1/19 runway with winds at 270 at 12G15 on the ASOS.

Knowing I was at the edge of the demonstrated X-Wind of 12kts I did a low approach knowing that there is a slight ridge on the west side of the field. The sock was indicating 290 5-10kts so I wend ahead and made a solid X-Wind landing on Runway 1.

Feeling pretty confident that I had gotten the hard part (x-wind landing) out of the way, I rolled to a full stop and reconfigured the aircraft for a X-Wind takeoff. I did a mental checklist, hold the centerline with rudder and left aileron deflected into the wind, then fly coordinated with a wing-low attitude after rotation.

Takeoff roll was a bit squirrelly but that's not unusual for the 162 but then the plane lifted off on its own at about 45kts indicated and immediately the plane drifted hard to the right. This happened quite suddenly and I found myself at full power, low airspeed, with cross-controlled inputs. I glanced over at the rapidly approaching FBO building to my right while feeling the controls start to mush and I let go of my inputs and leveled out to build airspeed all the while drifting farther off centerline (actually I was over the taxiway at that point). Once my airspeed was up I turned towards the Northeast and noted my Groundspeed was 90kts indicating 70kts and climbed the hell out of there.

Heart racing and airspeed and altitude rising I said to myself, "what the hell was that? What just happened?" Did I just about kill myself? So my guess is there must have been a pretty good gust that took the plane just before I hit my normal rotation speed of 55kts. There was enough of a headwind component to get the plane abruptly airborne and enough crosswind to really push me sideways. I was so stuck on trying to hold the centerline that I got into a dangerous cross-controlled attitude at low airspeed.

Lessons learned:
1. There's a reason why the 162 has such a low demonstrated crosswind
2. Crosswind takeoffs can be every bit as challenging as crosswind landings
3. Fly the plane first. Always.

 

[mscard88]

Yup! Drop your trousers off after?

 

[James_Dean]

Why were you cross controlled?

 

[brian]]

Not sure about the 162, but the DA20 I trained in could almost be turned into a kite - all you needed to do was tie a rope around the nose wheel. I would imagine the 162 is similar.

Stay focused and don't be afraid to get your CFI for a little extra help. Kansas is windy. I've taken off with the TAFs and METARs looking mild to arrive in Kansas for a 25G30 and the AWOS saying something like "variable". . . ugh ...

You get used to it. Remember, the designed that sucker just down the road from you ...

 

[bullwinkle]

Why were you cross controlled?

I'm guessing crosswind from the left requiring left aileron into the wind and right rudder to counteract left turning tendency on the takeoff roll.

 

[ralarcon]

So here in Kansas, most airports have a single North/South runway. I was getting some X/C time and hopped over to KEMP with a 1/19 runway with winds at 270 at 12G15 on the ASOS.

Knowing I was at the edge of the demonstrated X-Wind of 12kts I did a low approach knowing that there is a slight ridge on the west side of the field. The sock was indicating 290 5-10kts so I wend ahead and made a solid X-Wind landing on Runway 1.

Feeling pretty confident that I had gotten the hard part (x-wind landing) out of the way, I rolled to a full stop and reconfigured the aircraft for a X-Wind takeoff. I did a mental checklist, hold the centerline with rudder and left aileron deflected into the wind, then fly coordinated with a wing-low attitude after rotation.

Takeoff roll was a bit squirrelly but that's not unusual for the 162 but then the plane lifted off on its own at about 45kts indicated and immediately the plane drifted hard to the right. This happened quite suddenly and I found myself at full power, low airspeed, with cross-controlled inputs. I glanced over at the rapidly approaching FBO building to my right while feeling the controls start to mush and I let go of my inputs and leveled out to build airspeed all the while drifting farther off centerline (actually I was over the taxiway at that point). Once my airspeed was up I turned towards the Northeast and noted my Groundspeed was 90kts indicating 70kts and climbed the hell out of there.

Heart racing and airspeed and altitude rising I said to myself, "what the hell was that? What just happened?" Did I just about kill myself? So my guess is there must have been a pretty good gust that took the plane just before I hit my normal rotation speed of 55kts. There was enough of a headwind component to get the plane abruptly airborne and enough crosswind to really push me sideways. I was so stuck on trying to hold the centerline that I got into a dangerous cross-controlled attitude at low airspeed.

Lessons learned:
1. There's a reason why the 162 has such a low demonstrated crosswind
2. Crosswind takeoffs can be every bit as challenging as crosswind landings
3. Fly the plane first. Always.

I have learned that after you get enough time in a Light Sport, you scare yourself a lot less.

Cheers

 

[GeorgeC]

Good save. I have learned not to fly the skycatcher when any gusts are forecast.

Isn't Vr 50kts? It'll pretty much fly itself off around there if you're at T/O trim.

 

[labbadabba]

Why were you cross controlled?

Trying so hard to hold center line on the groundroll. I had the stick all the way left with right rudder. The plane was airborne so abruptly I didn't know what was happening at first. I wasn't cross-controlled for very long once I realized I was airborne I got myself coordinated but it was long-enough to mush at low airspeed and low altitude.

 

[labbadabba]

I have learned that after you get enough time in a Light Sport, you scare yourself a lot less.

Cheers

Yep, I've mostly been flying a 220hp C175 and a C182 of late so going from flying an SUV to a kite was an adjustment to be sure.

 

[labbadabba]

Isn't Vr 50kts? It'll pretty much fly itself off around there if you're at T/O trim.

Yeah, its usually firewall the throttle and wait for it to fly itself of the runway sort of deal. With a good wind she'll get airborne in seconds and if you're not fully ready to fly (which in hindsight I probably wasn't), things can get hairy really quickly.

 

[ralarcon]

I'm guessing crosswind from the left requiring left aileron into the wind and right rudder to counteract left turning tendency on the takeoff roll.

This is very good advice, thought I'd direct you to it. Usually my aileron is into the wind while rolling, and then rudder into the wind as soon as I lift off the nose,of course in windy conditions.

Cheers

 

[Clark1961]

Yeah, its usually firewall the throttle and wait for it to fly itself of the runway sort of deal. With a good wind she'll get airborne in seconds and if you're not fully ready to fly (which in hindsight I probably wasn't), things can get hairy really quickly.

Sounds like you've just about got it diagnosed. The transition from taxi to flight in a gusty crosswind is one of those things that's easy when you're proficient and having a good day. Miss either of those two and the ride can get "interesting". Make sure the airplane never goes anywhere your mind has not already been...

 

[bluerooster]

I've not flown many Light sport aircraft, but I would think that one would do what I do. Let the airplane "weathervane" after breaking ground, and fly it with correction angle, coordinated, rather than side slip.

 

[ralarcon]

I've not flown many Light sport aircraft, but I would think that one would do what I do. Let the airplane "weathervane" after breaking ground, and fly it with correction angle, coordinated, rather than side slip.

Light Sport aircraft have very low wing loading , so you have to anticipate the wind very early, or else the aircraft will get ahead of you quickly. Maneuvers are quick but gentle. Many times pressure on the controls is enough. It is a different kind of flying. Stick and rudder proficiency is highly rewarded, in an aircraft of this type.

Cheers

 

[Clark1961]

I've not flown many Light sport aircraft, but I would think that one would do what I do. Let the airplane "weathervane" after breaking ground, and fly it with correction angle, coordinated, rather than side slip.

Whether the pilot crabs the aircraft or holds runway heading, one thing for certain is aileron-into-the-wind correction is taken out after lift-off. You want to be as efficient as possible on climb-out.

 

[ralarcon]

Whether the pilot crabs the aircraft or holds runway heading, one thing for certain is aileron-into-the-wind correction is taken out after lift-off. You want to be as efficient as possible on climb-out.

Light Sport aircraft are very efficient in their climb. If you take the aileron out when you climb, you will experience what happened to the OP. That is the point. It truly is, a different kind of flying. Keep your speed up using angle of attack profile, fly the runway, keep directional stability. Crabbing is fine after you achieve enough altitude. You do whatever keeps you flying straight down the runway, and gaining speed.

Cheers

 

[Clark1961]

Light Sport aircraft are very efficient in their climb. If you take the aileron out when you climb, you will experience what happened to the OP. That is the point. It truly is, a different kind of flying.

Interesting perspective. I've flown LS and don't agree. Crabbing is fine as soon as the wheels leave the ground.

 

[ChrisK]

Interesting perspective. I've flown LS and don't agree. Crabbing is fine as soon as the wheels leave the ground.

Maybe I'm reading this funny, but I think crabbing (having your nose point somewhere other than the end of the runway but your ground track following runway heading) is not the same as keeping aileron inputs other than neutral in climb*.

* except as necessary to correct a roll excursion

 

[ralarcon]

Maybe I'm reading this funny, but I think crabbing (having your nose point somewhere other than the end of the runway but your ground track following runway heading) is not the same as keeping aileron inputs other than neutral in climb*.

* except as necessary to correct a roll excursion

Agree with above statement. It really is a complex maneuver, mastered with practice and time, requiring constant input.

Cheers

 

[Howard Wilson]

Something I haven't seen mentioned is, holding the plane down on the runway a little longer in conditions like this to gain some extra airspeed thus more air over the control surfaces.
When off level your wings and put the nose into the wind to keep over the runway. jmho

 

[Paul Hamilton]

Once you lift off, take out the aileron that you maintained into the wind on the roll. Use rudder to center the ball. Normally, the aircraft will weathercock into the wind by itself. If necessary, turn the aircraft to windward to track the extended centerline in a crab. Use some of that component to steepen your climb angle. You do NOT want to do your initial climb in uncoordinated flight.

 

[wilzup]

This! My training was in a DA20, which is very light. I was taught aileron into the wind and gradually reduce until lift off. Then rudder authority takes over to maintain centerline. You would think at such a slow speed and serious xwind at lift off that a sideslip would do exactly what the OP described.

This is very good advice, thought I'd direct you to it. Usually my aileron is into the wind while rolling, and then rudder into the wind as soon as I lift off the nose,of course in windy conditions.

Cheers

 

[ralarcon]

Something I haven't seen mentioned is, holding the plane down on the runway a little longer in conditions like this to gain some extra airspeed thus more air over the control surfaces.
When off level your wings and put the nose into the wind to keep over the runway. jmho

This is good advice, also. As recently recommended by a friend who happens to be a CFI. Tried it worked like a charm.

Cheers

 

[labbadabba]

Thanks folks - I appreciate your fair assessment of my experience. I was holding my breath waiting to be flamed by Turbo D!ck responses. Appreciate the advice and will attempt to incorporate into my flying.

 

[ETres]

I fly my LSA exclusively these days. If a X-wind tries to push me off center line on T/O, I lower the nose a bit for more speed and immediately crab into the wind with the ball centered. Works every time.

 

[James331]

Once you break free of pavement you shouldn't be cross controlled anymore.

 

[CharlieTango]

LSA do need their nosewheels in contact longer in a crosswind so the rotation is a bit of a leap into the air to avoid being blown sideways when you get light but are still in contact.

Take offs at Mammoth can mean dealing with a lot of wind shear and when that is the case I might keep my controls crossed and keep my alignment until I see a positive rate of climb and until I'm sure the shear isn't going to rob me of enough lift to put me back on the ground.

In more normal conditions I let it crab as soon as I'm flying.

 

[Matthew]

Watch glider ops in a good xwind. The glider gets airborne before the towplane, and it's really interesting to see. The glider can have a fairly extreme crab angle into the wind, just a foot or two off the ground, in order to maintain the rwy centerline while the towplane will have xwind controls to stay lined up on the rwy while it is still on the ground.

Here are some: Note, the Pawnee gets off the ground quickly enough it doesn't show the weathervaning nearly as well as the Cessna towplane:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o1dn_ccp6lk

 

[ChrisK]

Thanks folks - I appreciate your fair assessment of my experience. I was holding my breath waiting to be flamed by Turbo D!ck responses. Appreciate the advice and will attempt to incorporate into my flying.

Every pilot struggles with crosswinds in gusty conditions at some point. I think even experienced pilots have to refine techniques in new types. Everyone has rented this particular glass house

I won't fly the cub in gusty crosswind conditions, so in a way I salute your bravery!

 

[BillTIZ]

As soon as you break ground, get into a wings level crab into the wind to stay over the runway. Even in a kite LSA there is no need to be blown to the taxiway.

Great video on the glider ops with crosswind takeoffs. The glider needs to stay over the runway centerline. Get blown off to the side and you're making it tougher on your tow pilot.

I've had days towing in the Pawnee that I'm full cross controlled to the point I can get one main wheel off the ground and roll down the runway on the upwind main tire until we are ready to fly. Then it was instant wings level crab.

 

[PilotRPI]

Once you are off the ground, wings level, and crab into the wind, and keep the ball centered, all while tracking over the runway (not necessarily pointed down the runway). This will give you the most efficient climb.

Flying cross controlled is the same as when landing, it adds extra drag, will be less efficient, and cause you to climb more slowly. In a windy day like this, don't be in a rush to raise the nose. Get a bit of airspeed over the runway as that will give you more energy to maneuver if needed, be it a climb, turn, etc.

While we're at it, if you ever get some wind shear or a down draft from the hills off the runway, just remember that you can't out climb an issue like that. Lower the nose to maintain Vy or Vx, but don't pull back trying to out climb it. In something light with low power like an LSA, a lot of it is energy management and making the best of what you have.

 

[ralarcon]

"Flying cross controlled is the same as when landing, it adds extra drag, will be less efficient, and cause you to climb more slowly. In a windy day like this, don't be in a rush to raise the nose. Get a bit of airspeed over the runway as that will give you more energy to maneuver if needed, be it a climb, turn, etc."

I don't know where all this "cross controlled" talk is coming from, but if your ailerons are pointing into the wind and so is your rudder, more than likely you are coordinated. If not, you need to be. Again , personally, once my nose wheel is off the ground, my rudder is into the wind. If you are on the ground , and steering the aircraft with the nose-wheel, you are not "cross controlled" because you are not flying, you are steering on the ground. These are subtle inputs, on a Light Sport.

Cheers

 

[dell30rb]

Part of crosswind takeoff technique is keeping the nose down on the ground until you reach flying speed, then pull the plane off the runway and let it crab to maintain centerline. Add a little forward pressure on the stick if you need to keep the nose down.

This will keep your angle of attack at 0 and prevent a gust from picking you up before the plane is moving fast enough.

 

[FastEddieB]

Once you lift off, take out the aileron that you maintained into the wind on the roll. Use rudder to center the ball. Normally, the aircraft will weathercock into the wind by itself.

Discussed at length prior, but...

...I remain convinced, via both observation and experiment, that once the wheels leave the ground there is zero "weathercocking" into the wind - without controls applied to effect the turn.

Don't want to belabor it, but I think anyone who tries it will see that as soon as it's clear of the ground, the plane will simply move downwind, with no tendency to turn into the wind. That is, unless controls are applied to turn the plane into the wind, which becomes quite second-nature after a while.

 

[labbadabba]

At the point of lift-off there was a gust and I was airborne a few seconds before I thought I would be. This element of surprise coupled with left aileron into the wind and right rudder to hold center line on the ground roll is why I was airborne cross controlled.

Once the fog cleared in my mind (maybe just 2-3 seconds) I was already about 30 feet in the air and over the taxiway. I lowered my nose and got coordinated to gain speed and turned to the Northeast. By the time I was airborne and realized what was going on, there was no point in trying to get back on centerline by crabbing back into the wind which would have amounted to a 30 degree change to my heading. My goal at that point was to make sure I wasn't about to hit anything and get my airspeed up.

My biggest sin was getting behind the airplane and not truly appreciating what a crosswind can do when it gusts especially in an LSA. Next time, I'll know to add an extra few seconds to visualize my take-off and will (hopefully) be prepared should a gust grab me again.

 

[StevieTimes]

You are a danger to yourself and this whole planet. You are part of the rebel alliance and a traitor.

Thanks folks - I appreciate your fair assessment of my experience. I was holding my breath waiting to be flamed by Turbo D!ck responses. Appreciate the advice and will attempt to incorporate into my flying.

Oh sorry, didn't see this. Carry on, then.

 

[Lindberg]

"Flying cross controlled is the same as when landing, it adds extra drag, will be less efficient, and cause you to climb more slowly. In a windy day like this, don't be in a rush to raise the nose. Get a bit of airspeed over the runway as that will give you more energy to maneuver if needed, be it a climb, turn, etc."

I don't know where all this "cross controlled" talk is coming from, but if your ailerons are pointing into the wind and so is your rudder, more than likely you are coordinated. If not, you need to be. Again , personally, once my nose wheel is off the ground, my rudder is into the wind. If you are on the ground , and steering the aircraft with the nose-wheel, you are not "cross controlled" because you are not flying, you are steering on the ground. These are subtle inputs, on a Light Sport.

On the ground, the plane will want to point into the wind, so you'll need opposite rudder, away from the wind.

 

[brian]]

On the ground, the plane will want to point into the wind, so you'll need opposite rudder, away from the wind.

Hasn't been my experience. The DA20 I trained in and the bonanza I now drive handle very similarly: turn ailerons into the wind and right rudder on takeoff. Anything else while wheels are on the ground and you will be calling an insurance adjuster.

Now if you are beyond personal or machine limits on the cross wind, then things can get exciting when the wheels come off the ground. Sounds like the op did it right though: start flying the airplane.

I remember similar surprises in the DA20. Anytime you are basically moving, a good gust will promptly put you airborne. No big: keep the airspeed up and go flying....

 

[bikert]

Discussed at length prior, but...

...I remain convinced, via both observation and experiment, that once the wheels leave the ground there is zero "weathercocking" into the wind - without controls applied to effect the turn.

Don't want to belabor it, but I think anyone who tries it will see that as soon as it's clear of the ground, the plane will simply move downwind, with no tendency to turn into the wind. That is, unless controls are applied to turn the plane into the wind, which becomes quite second-nature after a while.

That's a relief! If planes weathercocked into the wind once airborne it would be a helluva effort trying to fly in a direction other than directly into the wind. You'd be fighting it the whole time trying to stop the plane weathercocking into the wind.

 

[FastEddieB]

That's a relief! If planes weathercocked into the wind once airborne it would be a helluva effort trying to fly in a direction other than directly into the wind. You'd be fighting it the whole time trying to stop the plane weathercocking into the wind.

I tried to imagine what would happen if a plane simply popped into the air with a strong wind coming from the side, and came up with a little experiment involving a leaf blower...

Crude, but even with a hurricane-force "crosswind", I did not see any weathervaning tendency in the time the model was aloft.