Scared myself today

Transvection

Transvection

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Transvection
For the first time since I started flying, I scared myself today. We scrapped a cross country due to various things and decided to start working on advanced takeoff and landing techniques. Aka, Softfield and shortfield takeoff and landings.

The winds were gusting 10-15 with nearly a direct crosswind at times. It was swinging back and forth about 40-60 degrees.

We tried a couple of soft field takeoffs and landings and my attempts were flirting with disaster. I am hoping it was just the winds that were messing me up but for the first time I thought we might be in real trouble. I have a full writeup in my blog.

Did you guys have any trouble with soft field? Honestly I thought it would be easy but after today...
 
Soft field in gusty winds?

Yes, that's difficult. You have to be FAST on the rudder, and not afraid to put it full scale. As soon as you get the nose wheel off the ground, you're gonna weathervane. Try this on a WIDE runway at first. It's easier once you get some speed.

If you only scare yourself once as a student pilot, you're doing pretty good.

I'm a bit surprised your cross country got canceled 'cause one VOR was out. Is there no other way? Pilotage perhaps? Another VOR? IFR (I Follow Roads)? It's not best practice to depend only on one box to get to your destination. Sometimes they don't work right. And **** happens on cross countries. On mine, I discovered while airborne that my DME didn't see anything more than 5 miles out, which made it useless for navigation, for instance.
 
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I hope you went around a few times. Never try to force a landing.
 
MAKG1 said:
Soft field in gusty winds?

Yes, that's difficult. You have to be FAST on the rudder, and not afraid to put it full scale. As soon as you get the nose wheel off the ground, you're gonna weathervane. Try this on a WIDE runway at first. It's easier once you get some speed.

If you only scare yourself once as a student pilot, you're doing pretty good.

I'm a bit surprised your cross country got canceled 'cause one VOR was out. Is there no other way? Pilotage perhaps? Another VOR? IFR (I Follow Roads)? It's not best practice to depend only on one box to get to your destination. Sometimes they don't work right. And **** happens on cross countries. On mine, I discovered while airborne that my DME didn't see anything more than 5 miles out, which made it useless for navigation, for instance.
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No, the cross country didn't get cancelled because of that. I had drawn up my flight plan to include the VOR but she really wanted me to do it direct. The issue was she forgot to tell me that I should do direct so all of my numbers were wrong. Plus there were some low hanging clouds hanging out between here and there so we went to plan B. So yeah, the real issue was that I was supposed to use pure pilotage.
 
MAKG1 said:
Soft field in gusty winds?

Yes, that's difficult. You have to be FAST on the rudder, and not afraid to put it full scale. As soon as you get the nose wheel off the ground, you're gonna weathervane. Try this on a WIDE runway at first. It's easier once you get some speed.

If you only scare yourself once as a student pilot, you're doing pretty good.

I'm a bit surprised your cross country got canceled 'cause one VOR was out. Is there no other way? Pilotage perhaps? Another VOR? IFR (I Follow Roads)? It's not best practice to depend only on one box to get to your destination. Sometimes they don't work right. And **** happens on cross countries. On mine, I discovered while airborne that my DME didn't see anything more than 5 miles out, which made it useless for navigation, for instance.
Click to expand...

Great advice....:thumbsup::thumbsup:
 
Transvection said:
No, the cross country didn't get cancelled because of that. I had drawn up my flight plan to include the VOR but she really wanted me to do it direct. The issue was she forgot to tell me that I should do direct so all of my numbers were wrong. Plus there were some low hanging clouds hanging out between here and there so we went to plan B. So yeah, the real issue was that I was supposed to use pure pilotage.
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Direct, as in straight ded reckoning?

I never did that as a student, but I sure did in CAP training. It works a lot better than one might expect as a student. You have to nail the numbers you plan for. BUT, you must have a plan B in case you screw up, or winds are really different from the forecast, etc. Like, you thought you'd see the airport after 30 minutes, but 30 minutes passes and you don't. Now what?

Looking at the chart, there are a couple of really good highways to follow. Your destination looks like it's right on a major interstate.
 
MAKG1 said:
Direct, as in straight ded reckoning?

I never did that as a student, but I sure did in CAP training. It works a lot better than one might expect as a student. You have to nail the numbers you plan for. BUT, you must have a plan B in case you screw up, or winds are really different from the forecast, etc. Like, you thought you'd see the airport after 30 minutes, but 30 minutes passes and you don't. Now what?

Looking at the chart, there are a couple of really good highways to follow. Your destination looks like it's right on a major interstate.
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Yeah, My revised plan looks decent. There are some good highways, and a few good towns as well as a lake on the way. The airfield is at an intersection of two highways so yeah, shouldn't be too bad. I just goofed on the first planning.
 
Transvection said:
No, the cross country didn't get cancelled because of that. I had drawn up my flight plan to include the VOR but she really wanted me to do it direct. The issue was she forgot to tell me that I should do direct so all of my numbers were wrong. Plus there were some low hanging clouds hanging out between here and there so we went to plan B. So yeah, the real issue was that I was supposed to use pure pilotage.
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Flying without the magenta line? Is that still done? LOL

David
 
STOL in bad x-winds is tough.

I don't like to put out a lot of flaps with a bad x-wind component. Come in a little hotter and do a wheelie. Fly the airplane on and keep plenty of air going over the rudder. Fast feet like was said before. Corrections must be done quickly and done with authority. Don't let it get ahead of you.

Try that.
 
Soft field landings took me the longest of all the basic skills to get to test standards. Do not get discouraged by them, it is a harder skill.
 
The absolute worst landing I've ever had was in a small direct crosswind of about 8 knots. This is in my stol 172 and I came in full flaps and tried a technique that one of the water cooler pilots at the FBO suggested. He said come in crabs and let the plane kick itself straight when the first wheel hits.... umm that didn't work and I ended up bouncing and aiming off the side of the runway... all worked out but it was freaky.

Point being that short/soft field landings are a challenge enough, add Xwinds to it and it become increasingly more challenging. One day I literally did 7 or 8 go arounds before landing on an actual short, soft field on a cross windy day.

So don't sweat it, you'll get it down but it takes some time. Although there was one guy on this board who once told me you need to be about to land with a direct 19 knot crosswind prior to your PPL Checkride. :yikes:
 
Ah yes the old dreaded water cooler, ATP, Comerical, seaplane, IR, pilot wanna be! Keep in mind, that advice ins't worth what you paid for it! Hoever it will get you killed. :yes:
 
MAKG1 said:
Soft field in gusty winds?

Yes, that's difficult. You have to be FAST on the rudder, and not afraid to put it full scale. As soon as you get the nose wheel off the ground, you're gonna weathervane. Try this on a WIDE runway at first. It's easier once you get some speed.

If you only scare yourself once as a student pilot, you're doing pretty good.

I'm a bit surprised your cross country got canceled 'cause one VOR was out. Is there no other way? Pilotage perhaps? Another VOR? IFR (I Follow Roads)? It's not best practice to depend only on one box to get to your destination. Sometimes they don't work right. And **** happens on cross countries. On mine, I discovered while airborne that my DME didn't see anything more than 5 miles out, which made it useless for navigation, for instance.
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MAKG pretty much nailed it.
 
I appreciate the feedback. As a student, it is hard to know what is normal sometimes. I walked away for the first time feeling like I may not be able to do this. I still struggle with slipping a crosswind normally with a crosswind higher than about 8. The little 152 only has a component of 12 but as of right now, I wouldn't be completely comfortable with it. I guess it all comes in time and practice.... and money. :)
 
Transvection said:
I appreciate the feedback. As a student, it is hard to know what is normal sometimes. I walked away for the first time feeling like I may not be able to do this. I still struggle with slipping a crosswind normally with a crosswind higher than about 8. The little 152 only has a component of 12 but as of right now, I wouldn't be completely comfortable with it. I guess it all comes in time and practice.... and money. :)
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Practice, practice, practice. Chair fly it too...that helped me.

If you have one in your area, try to find an outfit with the RedBird crosswind simulators. Never been a real sim guy myself but I tried one of those at Oshkosh last year and was quite impressed.
 
OkieAviator said:
He said come in crabs and let the plane kick itself straight when the first wheel hits.... umm that didn't work and I ended up bouncing and aiming off the side of the runway... all worked out but it was freaky.
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Here's a thought for you to ponder. Do you think "let the airplane handle it" is the correct advice here? Or do you think "make the airplane be exactly where you want it to be" would be a better way to think about it?

I'm not criticizing your CFI. But my primary CFI taught a mentality that was not to leave things to chance. If the nose goes a direction you don't want it to go, your rudder foot had better already be moving toward bottoming out on the floor. Same with bank, the ailerons had better be being rolled in, all the way to the stop if necessary. Pitch and power also.

His oft used phrase was, "Use whatever it takes but keep the airplane doing exactly what YOU want it to do, never become a passenger, BE the pilot."

Make it do what you want. If you can't, go around. If it's pointed at the ditch, fix it.

I suspect he was giving you a little rope to hang yourself with. It's difficult to show someone where they need to learn something sometimes, and they have to see it themselves. But I do wish he'd taught you to go around and not try to salvage a mess. Too many folks don't go around when things get hairy. Your comfort level says it ain't right? Go around.

Maybe he'll say, "Good decision but let me show you how to fix this..." and continue the landing anyway, but I'd want to see you thinking "go around" first ... before "salvage this mess".

Just thoughts. More practice in crosswinds will make it all a lot easier. It takes a while for it to click.
 
denverpilot said:
His oft used phrase was, "Use whatever it takes but keep the airplane doing exactly what YOU want it to do, never become a passenger, BE the pilot."

Make it do what you want. If you can't, go around. If it's pointed at the ditch, fix it.
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Yes!!

This cannot be emphasized enough. You're the pilot; make the airplane do what you want in every regime of flight.
 
Stearman said:
Yes!!

This cannot be emphasized enough. You're the pilot; make the airplane do what you want in every regime of flight.
Click to expand...

Wasn't it in Top Gun where Goose says, "do some of that pilot ****e Mav"? :D
 
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