Saw a K-Max helo yesterday..cool

[AKBill]

Saw a K-Max helo for the first time yesterday. Max endurance 12 hours with extra tanks, 2 1/2 hours with standard fuel load. Can lift it's own weight, single pilot, very narrow just wide enough for the pilot




Design

Simple, Safe, and Reliable
The K-MAX can lift more than its weight--6,000 pounds--and burns just 82 gallons of fuel per hour during lift operations, making it the most efficient lift-to-fuel ratio of any helicopter in its class.

The simple, straight-forward design that uses fewer aircraft systems, shortens the load path between the engine and rotor system, enhancing the airframe's ability to handle the stress loads generated between the rotor system and cargo hook assembly during repeated lifting exercises.

The key to the K-MAX helicopter's efficiency is an oversized intermeshing rotor system with servo-flap control. Operating without a tail rotor, all engine power is transferred directly to the large counter-rotating main rotors. What's more, the K-MAX maintains its power and performance at high altitudes and temperatures and requires less maintenance than helicopters with the traditional tail rotor configuration.

 

[Jim K]

Cool...love the skis!

Saw a s-64 skycrane flying north of my house a few weeks ago; according to flightaware it had just fueled at cmi. Wish I had been there to see it come in.

 

[AKBill]

Cool...love the skis!

Saw a s-64 skycrane flying north of my house a few weeks ago; according to flightaware it had just fueled at cmi. Wish I had been there to see it come in.

Back in the day when they allowed logging in SE AK, they used Skycranes to move the logs. You would see 12 trees slung under the helo to a drop point. The logging company Silver Bay logging had a fleet of helos, big maintenance hangar, and had at least a dozen mechanics working on the fleet. Tree huggers got logging banned in the late 90's and everyone lost their jobs. Saw mills closed and logging for the most part stopped in SE AK....

 

[Bell206]

very narrow just wide enough for the pilot

Should have asked him if he had the seat mod and gone for a ride.....

 

[Cap'n Jack]

Should have asked him if he had the seat mod and gone for a ride.....

View attachment 93849

So that's what happened to Kaman. Part of LockMart.

 

[Bell206]

So that's what happened to Kaman. Part of LockMart.

KAMAN is still very much on their own. Lockheed only partnered with Kaman for the UAT contract/competition. Kaman has always been pretty diversified other than just helicopters.

 

[Cap'n Jack]

KAMAN is still very much on their own. Lockheed only partnered with Kaman for the UAT contract/competition. Kaman has always been pretty diversified other than just helicopters.

Thanks for the correction! I see they are still very much alive and well.

 

[Chip Sylverne]

Cool...love the skis!

Saw a s-64 skycrane flying north of my house a few weeks ago; according to flightaware it had just fueled at cmi. Wish I had been there to see it come in.

One came in to fuel up at DMW a few weeks ago. Once it got that big rotor spun up it shook the hangars.

 

[Jim K]

One came in to fuel up at DMW a few weeks ago. Once it got that big rotor spun up it shook the hangars.

I can imagine. I was sitting in my office a couple years ago and heard a deep noise that I assumed at first to be one of the Guard Blackhawks we occasionally see around here. It kept getting louder and louder until things were literally vibrating on my desk. Went outside to see a flight of two Chinooks pass directly over my house at maybe 100' agl. One of the most impressive things I've ever seen.

 

[Htaylor]

Saw a K-Max helo for the first time yesterday. Max endurance 12 hours with extra tanks, 2 1/2 hours with standard fuel load. Can lift it's own weight, single pilot, very narrow just wide enough for the pilot.

There's a red and white one that often comes through Juneau in the Summer. IIRC, it has Canadian registry and used for fire suppression.

 

[cessna182b]

There's a red and white one that often comes through Juneau in the Summer. IIRC, it has Canadian registry and used for fire suppression.

There has been one based on the Los Padres NF in SoCal during Fire Season in recent years. Likewise, Red and White, Canadian Reg.

Dave

 

[Ventucky Red]

I see black ones most of the time.... would see more if my tin foil hat didn't get in the way...

 

[Let'sgoflying!]

intermeshing rotors... brrrr.
Seems like they could one day..interfere.
(I know less than zero about them)

 

[Bell206]

Seems like they could one day..interfere.

FYI: they'll only "interfere" if something catastrophically fails which will probably be the least of your worries at that point.

 

[topgun260]

The K-MAX and older HH-43's are very quiet compared to other helicopters in it's class. The rotor's tip speed is significantly slower than say a UH-1 so you can often hear the engine before the rotor system.

 

[topgun260]

intermeshing rotors... brrrr.
Seems like they could one day..interfere.
(I know less than zero about them)

I know of at least one that has on an HH-43 used in a logging operation. The gear that connects the two rotor systems and times the blades failed.

 

[Bell206]

The K-MAX and older HH-43's are very quiet compared to other helicopters in it's class.

You'll find no tailrotor adds to the reduced noise signature as well.

 

[Spring Ford]

The K-MAX and older HH-43's are very quiet compared to other helicopters in it's class.

I have read that a lot of the noise a helicopter makes is related to interactions between the main and the tail rotors. Certainly the NOTAR versions of the MD600 are very quiet compared to conventional helicopters. I have never heard one of the Kaman's or similar.

The other thing is that the tail rotor consumes a lot of power. I have seen references to 20% of total. Will vary a lot with airspeed. So, the Kaman/Chinook design does not waste that power.

Just noticed. The Kaman arrangement results in the rotors NOT passing each other closely in opposite directions. Above the cabin roof they are either both moving forwards or both moving to the rear. I was skeptical of the "quiet" comment above since I had assumed that the rotors would be zooming past each other in opposite direction at close proximity but that is incorrect.

Finally, the design seems simpler mechanically that a conventional helicopter with tail rotor and so would be expected to be more reliable.

 

[SoCal RV Flyer]

That narrow fuselage reminds me of the "profile" control line planes, and the rc aerobatic planes that are built from sheets of foam.

Very fun to see something unexpected! I remember working in my hangar one day and hearing an airplane noise that was unlike anything I'd heard before. I popped out to take a look and it was a V-22 Osprey making a low approach over our humble runway.

 

[Bell206]

I have read that a lot of the noise a helicopter makes is related to interactions between the main and the tail rotors.

Just to add to the discussion, it not so much the interaction between the two rotors as it is the design of each rotor and the different RPM each rotates at. For example, things like the number of blades, swept tips vs flat tips, and tapered contours can make a greater impact on noise.

And similar to the NOTAR, the Fenestron was designed specifically to reduce a helicopters noise signature. But while the NOTAR doesn’t have any external blades there is a big variable “fan” at the front of the tailboom which still robs torque from the M/R as in conventional T/R systems and can actually be as high as a 30% loss. A good example of this torque loss can be seen in helicopter external load ops videos where just before the load is lifted you’ll see the aircraft start a slow rotation to the torque side as the pilot unloads the T/R to increase the available torque to the M/R to remain in limits and get the load airborne.

Back to the Kmax it also doesn’t have a hydraulic system which with no T/R system does make a very simple helicopter to work on. But that was what it was specifically designed for, remote ops and maintainability. I almost had a chance to work on a few but the contract fell through. However, I did get to spend some time with a Max operator working out mx support requirements for a bit. Definitely an interesting aircraft.

 

[Velocity173]

Anytime you can sling more than your empty weight, that’s an efficient aircraft. But, it also makes it a “one hit wonder.” It does sling loads well but that’s about it. Like the CH-54, it’s not going to win any award for speed or range either.

The Marines did really well with their K-Max helos in Afghanistan. It really shines in the unmanned combat resupply role. Obviously to resupply to a hot LZ and not have to worry about risking human life is a game changer. Theoretically, you could resupply to a mountain top in 0/0 conditions. The problem with unmanned in remote conditions is that it’s extremely difficult to determine the landing environment from sitting in a trailer miles away. They balled up one trying to hover in windy conditions over there. The other problem with unmanned and being limited to a sling load only role, is that it isn’t that flexible. Or the combat buzzword, “fluid.” A Black Hawk could do that same 6,000 lb load but after they drop it off, they could continue on with the mission and drop off troops and supplies that were loaded internally. Really, at least when I was there, the sling load mission was dead. Just too inflexible and large loads either weren’t needed, or a Chinook took care of it. Troops needed 1,000 lbs of food, water and ammo, that could be loaded quickly and transported at a much faster speed then say a K-Max.

 

[Sac Arrow]

The two counter rotating rotor setup also eliminates the retreating/advancing rotor speed limitation too, right?

 

[Sac Arrow]

Saw one of these bad boys flying around the tarmac at Danang airport a few years ago.

Kamov KA 27.

 

[Velocity173]

The two counter rotating rotor setup also eliminates the retreating/advancing rotor speed limitation too, right?

The configuration eliminates dissymmetry of lift, yes. A coaxial or intermeshing CAN allow higher speeds by offsetting retreating blade stall and compressibility (advancing blade) but at 100 kts Vne, the K-Max isn’t going to get into either one of those conditions.

 

[Bell206]

A Black Hawk could do that same 6,000 lb load but after they drop it off, they could continue on with the mission and drop off troops and supplies that were loaded internally.

And as more Blackhawks roll into civilian ops I believe the K-Max market will remain as it is, niche, for that same reason.

 

[Bell206]

aw one of these bad boys flying around the tarmac at Danang airport a few years ago.

They had several of the civilian versions flying in Canada at one time. One came south of the border for a tour, but couldn't meet the FARs so it was a bust to operate here. Most of the Russian stuff has the same problem but Kamov/MIL Industries are changing that and maybe in the future you might see one of those landing at your local airport and hopefully without a red star on it.