San Diego airport?

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Any insight from locals would be appreciated.

Coming down to the Loews Coronado Bay Resort & Spa for a couple days for work in early August - a customer has a big conference there which I am required to attend.

Of course, the idea of flying commercial is verboten AFAIC - even if I pay for my flight myself :rofl:

But where should I park the Cessna? Presumably not in SD intl (although I've heard of weirder things before). I'm coming from the SF bay area.
 
Lindbergh Field (KSAN) is busy and expensive, but not impossible. The last time I flew in there (2007) the FBO treated me well, though in looking around I was quite sure my Bonanza had the only piston engine on the airport that night. If you're on your Class B airspace game you shouldn't have any trouble there.

There is only one runway at KSAN, 9/27. Prevailing wind is from the west, favoring 27. There's no glideslope on 27 because of terrain just east of the airport. Lowest minima, LOC or GPS, are about 700-1.

Montgomery Field (KMYF) is only another 10-15 minutes by car to the north, It is an excellent G.A. facility, with full ILS down to 200-1/2.
 
I prefer Gillespie Field (KSEE) myself. Easier to deal with on the field and it isn't all that far away.
 
You are going to think I'm nuts, that is a different subject anyway - but Brown field is the easiest to get to Loews Resort. It's also usually VFR when much of the rest of Sandy Eggo is socked in.

New highway goes right past airport almost direct to hwy 75 to the resort. Cheaper and easier than MYF, but you fly a bit further to get there.

Take care not to accidentally land at Tijuana airport only about a mile south. It's been done before several times.
 
docmirror said:
You are going to think I'm nuts, that is a different subject anyway - but Brown field is the easiest to get to Loews Resort. It's also usually VFR when much of the rest of Sandy Eggo is socked in.

New highway goes right past airport almost direct to hwy 75 to the resort. Cheaper and easier than MYF, but you fly a bit further to get there.

Take care not to accidentally land at Tijuana airport only about a mile south. It's been done before several times.
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Good advice. Brown is a very easy airport and pretty mellow and friendly controllers. Also, it is much less affected by our marine layer unlike SAN, MYF, and CRQ.
 
The closest airport to Coronado is KNZY. :)

I think the FBOs at KSAN will be substantially friendlier.
 
All of the San Diego area reliever/GA airports are good for this.

KDSM (Brown) will technically be closest but has the least in terms of amenities and instrument procedures if you need them - cheapest fuel.

KSEE (Gillespie) would be farthest but is the last to go MVFR/IFR and usually among the first to clear. Nice facilities and great controllers.

MYF (Montgomery) is most centrally located, a little more expensive but easy-in/out on the ground - more effected by weather than other two but good instrument procedures if you need them. FBO's could probably get rental car, etc.

FWIW, my EAA Chapter is based at KSDM but I fly most from KSEE.

'Gimp
 
I went to KSEE last year. Everyone was great. But, I won't be going back to any SD airports and tie down again. There are these little black ants everywhere in SD and some got all over and into my plane.
 
Although KSEE is furthest from beach area it's quite easy to get to there. KSEE was easy to get into and out of. I was pleased where we kept plane would go there again.

Totally agree on morning soup. KSEE hardly affected when several others closer to beach were IFR.
 
Thank you everyone.

So this brings up a good question: I will be flying in ~5PM which shouldn't be a problem, and leaving around 9PM which could be. I am flying VFR. Based on that, which should I pick so that I know I can get out at night?
 
KSEE might by your best bet. Easy in and out, a bit further from the beach but it's a good place.

Warning, if you leave after dark, there is a rather tall mountain sticking up just NE of the airport. It has a lot of tin on it. It's lit at night, but still dangerous. Note it when you come in, and don't forget when you leave. The tower may be closed when you depart, so it's up to you to miss it. What I would do, is get ready to call appr as soon as you lift off, turn right and stay over the airport until you get FF and request transition through the class B of Miramar corridor. If they don't give it to you make sure you are above the mountain then steer clear of it by going due east and climb headed east to get out from under the 4800' floor, keep climbing and then head north.
 
As far from the beach as you can get.

Same as around the Bay. Downwind from water = marine layer.

Marine layer generally comes in later than that, but it's not guaranteed.

If you can't afford to hang around until noon the next day and you must be VFR, fly there on a purple 737. No matter what, you will not know you can get out at night.
 
docmirror said:
KSEE might by your best bet. Easy in and out, a bit further from the beach but it's a good place.

Warning, if you leave after dark, there is a rather tall mountain sticking up just NE of the airport. It has a lot of tin on it. It's lit at night, but still dangerous. Note it when you come in, and don't forget when you leave. The tower may be closed when you depart, so it's up to you to miss it. What I would do, is get ready to call appr as soon as you lift off, turn right and stay over the airport until you get FF and request transition through the class B of Miramar corridor. If they don't give it to you make sure you are above the mountain then steer clear of it by going due east and climb headed east to get out from under the 4800' floor, keep climbing and then head north.
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Goodness. Thank you Random. Sounds like a much scarier mountain than Mt Diablo up near KCCR (my home field).

I've looked up VFR stats for all of these, and KDSM actually seems like the best bet in terms of getting out at night. What do you think?
 
Well, both are good. KSDM has the benefit of not being under the class B, so unrestricted climb is fine. Again, make one climbing circuit of the airport, then climb heading east again and go around the class B unless you can get cleared by appr direct into B going north.

I mention the mountain at KSEE because I know people have hit it at night. It's called 'rattlesnake'. It has a water tank on it, and that's not at the top of the mtn. You can miss it easily if you want to go in there, just make one circuit of KSEE while climbing directly over the runway and you'll be fine.

If appr will give you a climbing entry into the B headed north, that's your best bet.

<edited to correct identifier, noted by next post.>
 
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Make sure you grabbed stats for the correct airport, KSDM is Brown Field, KDSM is Des Moines, IA. Big difference in weather - Brown does get the marine layer in the morning and evening, its only a few miles from the coast as the crow and cloud fly.

I have been fogged out at Brown coming back from a day trip to an airshow in Arizona, KMYF (Montgomery) was IFR as well, easy in to Gillespie (KSEE) and my copilot's wife picked us up.

Weather was fine when we left but 90 minutes later it was 800 OVC and 2 miles. I am instrument rated but was not current and there are only non-precision approaches with mountains off the east side of the field (farther away than Rattlesnake at KSEE but MUCH bigger) and an EASY violation of the ADIZ with Mexico only about 1.5 miles south of the field. Diverted to KSEE easy-peasy.

The airspace to the north of KSEE is fairly complex due to MCAS Miramar but SOCAL APPR/DEP will usually get you east or west of that for easy transition if they can't get you through it.

'Gimp
 
AcroGimp said:
Make sure you grabbed stats for the correct airport, KSDM is Brown Field, KDSM is Des Moines, IA. Big difference in weather - Brown does get the marine layer in the morning and evening, its only a few miles from the coast as the crow and cloud fly.
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Dang. I DID get the wrong weather - and KSEE is much better in this regard. Thank you!
 
AcroGimp said:
I am instrument rated but was not current and there are only non-precision approaches with mountains off the east side of the field (farther away than Rattlesnake at KSEE but MUCH bigger) and an EASY violation of the ADIZ with Mexico only about 1.5 miles south of the field.
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That's where the Hawker jet carrying Reba McIntyre's band hit a mountain after takeoff from KSDM in 1991 (NTSB report here). The airplane had been repositioned to KSDM because the late-night, post-concert departure would be after KSAN's curfew. :(
 
The saddest one I recall is three new Pipers being delivered to somewhere in San Diego area. They were in trail, and had common call signs. The controller was giving descents to the planes in trail and somehow one of the trailing planes got the descent for the lead plane, and hit the mountains east of San Diego.

I know there's metal from an Ercoupe up on Rattlesnake cause it went in as I was coming back from PHX area, and they asked me to circle and see if I could identify any wreckage, or see anything. This was a long time ago, and nothing was built up there yet. I didn't see it, but later learned it went into a canyon on the NE side.

Advise to make a climbing circuit over the field before heading east, and unless one is in a real dog, it's easy to outclimb the terrain. If one is in a real dog, make another circuit.
 
I would go with Brown, it's far enough inland and enough elevation that you should still get out at night.
 
Going through the more detailed planning right now as it is the day before I head out.

A couple things came up - first of all, Brown is a customs point, Montgomery is not. This makes me lean towards the latter, just to avoid having to deal with customs officials or some such. Am I wrong here?

Also, from all I can tell looking at weather statistics for August in the San Diego area, MYF stays VFR more often than SDM, and stays so longer at night. I am leaving around 8PM and I don't think I will have trouble this coming Wednesday getting out of either of them.

But as I was looking, I found another interesting option - KSAN itself.

And the interesting thing is, KSAN seems to have by far better VFR stats than either KMYF or KSDM or, for that matter, any of the other ones. Does this make sense? I don't mind paying a higher tie-down fee for a couple of nights. Anyone have any idea why KSAN would be so much better in terms of weather stats than the more inland airports?
 
First off, Ii you aren't on if from Mexico, you won't have to deal with Customs. They won't bother you. I've landed many times there and never saw a Customs agent.

Second, I'm curious where you are getting the stats. I used to live a couple miles from SDM and found it VFR more than SAN or MYF. I also find it hard to believe that SAN is VFR more than MYF. The marine layer ALWAYS gets North Island and SAN first and then drifts inland toward MYF and NKX. It also almost always burns off from the mountains toward the sea, so you'll have a slightly better chance of getting in and out of MYF than SAN. I've looked at SAN a few times and both the fees and the much higher price of fuel makes SAN not really worth it. MYF is only 10 min (if that) from downtown.
 
onwards said:
Going through the more detailed planning right now as it is the day before I head out.

A couple things came up - first of all, Brown is a customs point, Montgomery is not. This makes me lean towards the latter, just to avoid having to deal with customs officials or some such. Am I wrong here?

Also, from all I can tell looking at weather statistics for August in the San Diego area, MYF stays VFR more often than SDM, and stays so longer at night. I am leaving around 8PM and I don't think I will have trouble this coming Wednesday getting out of either of them.

But as I was looking, I found another interesting option - KSAN itself.

And the interesting thing is, KSAN seems to have by far better VFR stats than either KMYF or KSDM or, for that matter, any of the other ones. Does this make sense? I don't mind paying a higher tie-down fee for a couple of nights. Anyone have any idea why KSAN would be so much better in terms of weather stats than the more inland airports?
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Yes, you are wrong, unless you pull up to the customs shack and walk in, you won't see them.
 

WRong on a lot of counts. You will never see CUstoms at Brown unless you yourself call them out from San Ysidro auto check station.

Second, I have no idea where you got your data. Born, raised, and CFI'd in San Diego for a lot of years. SAN goes down first, then MYF, then Brown, then SEE, then Ramona ... and thence.

Do as you will. You don't seem to want to take advantage of everybody in here who has flown/based/taught there.

Jim
 
Fuggeddabbout customs, as other have said, not a factor. Monty, or Brown, unless you want to drive down from Gillespie.
 
weirdjim said:
Second, I have no idea where you got your data. Born, raised, and CFI'd in San Diego for a lot of years. SAN goes down first, then MYF, then Brown, then SEE, then Ramona ... and thence.
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Exactly. The only time I have seen MYF worse than SAN is maybe once or twice a year early morning fog (vis 1/4 mile and ceiling indefinite) and SAN being IFR - MVFR, but that is the exception rather than the norm.
 
weirdjim said:
Do as you will. You don't seem to want to take advantage of everybody in here who has flown/based/taught there.
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Jim, please don't misunderstand. I posted precisely because I am unfamiliar with the area and looking for advice from those who are, and have stated that repeatedly. I am just trying to put it all together for myself; maybe I'm taking the flight planning and "all available information" concept too far :D
 
Fearless Tower said:
Exactly. The only time I have seen MYF worse than SAN is maybe once or twice a year early morning fog (vis 1/4 mile and ceiling indefinite) and SAN being IFR - MVFR, but that is the exception rather than the norm.
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Data is from here:

http://www.aviador.es/Statistics/Flight_Rules/

When I plug in the three airports and then pick August stats, I get highest IFR/LIFR percentages in SDM, second highest in MYF, and almost none in SAN.
 
For off-hours operations where you might want a rental car, I'd suspect MYF or SAN would be the most accomodating -- although my preferred at MYF (Gibbs) probably wouldn't help with a car at 9pm. Might be worth a few calls to see who can accomodate if you want to do something other than walk off of the field. :D

If I needed a car, I'd probably do SAN and eat the fees (which aren't that bad, particularly for a Class B Airport), or fly into MYF and just Uber everywhere.

If you're on a portable GPS you'll want to add VPSMS to your flight plan -- I always get VFR routing over Mt. Soledad, and if it's hazy, it's not real fun to be hunting for, because it gets real busy.

$0.02 :)

- Mike
 
As a local who flies regularly I would say there is something wrong if the stats show next to no IFR/MVFR for KSAN as compared to any of the other area airports.

I can check Wx anytime using Garmin Pilot and KSAN will almost always be first to go MVFR/IFR. Right now for example KSAN is showing FEW 1500, SCT 7500 with KMYF showing FEW 12000, KSDM is FEW 9500, and KSEE is BKN 4700, BKN 5000. Radar suggests KSAN will go IFR first.

Anecdotally, I was up yesterday in the rain, KSEE and KSDM were VFR in rain, KMYF was MVFR and KSAN was IFR and that is the typical situation when there's almost any weather. It was nice to be out in the rain, I haven't flown in rain in years.

As others have said, no Customs issues at Brown unless you come in from Mexico.

'Gimp
 
The only thing I can see for the IFR issue at SAN being lower than the others is an elevation issue vs. the bottom of the Marine Layer. SAN is SL + a few feet, everyone else is up slope, so while the airport may not be technically IFR when the Marine Layer rolls in, it will still require an IR to get in and out. :dunno:
 
Henning said:
The only thing I can see for the IFR issue at SAN being lower than the others is an elevation issue vs. the bottom of the Marine Layer. SAN is SL + a few feet, everyone else is up slope, so while the airport may not be technically IFR when the Marine Layer rolls in, it will still require an IR to get in and out. :dunno:
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Exactly.
 
schmookeeg said:
For off-hours operations where you might want a rental car, I'd suspect MYF or SAN would be the most accomodating -- although my preferred at MYF (Gibbs) probably wouldn't help with a car at 9pm. Might be worth a few calls to see who can accomodate if you want to do something other than walk off of the field. :D
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Gibbs has a line guy on the field 24/7 (or at least they did two years ago), so I am pretty sure that a phone call ahead would be able to arrange a car waiting for you for a late night arrival.
 
Picked Brown in the end. Great little airport and the tower controllers were super kind to me as I meandered all over the place in my anxiety over not busting the international border.
 
I don't understand the anxiety of coming into San Diego. Is the OP a very low time pilot? Has his basic training been deficient? Pick a destination airport, study the chart, fly the plan. SAN Bravo is easy peasy. Coming from the north, Class Bravo should hardly be anything more than an afterthought. I've been in and out of SAN many times-landing and departing all area airports many times-that I think it is probably undue anxiety of which the OP suffers.

Summary; you're basic training has/has not equipped you to make an unsupervised solo cross country.
 
onwards said:
Picked Brown in the end. Great little airport and the tower controllers were super kind to me as I meandered all over the place in my anxiety over not busting the international border.
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lol,,, They've heard it before. Glad you got in fine.
 
Countryair, I am SO rolling my eyes at you.

If you don't understand the basic concept of availing oneself of all available information before a flight to an unfamiliar area, including reaching out via this wonderful forum, then you must be one of those "tough guys", ain't ya? Well, good on you, big boy.

Me, if I have the opportunity to do so, I like to ask everyone for their input and learn from it before I go. Isn't the Interwebs grand?

As a side note, were you a bully in grade school, too?
 
docmirror said:
lol,,, They've heard it before. Glad you got in fine.
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Yeah, no issues. Got cleared through the Bravo but on a 150 from mission bay, which had me headed straight to Mexico. They only let me turn when I came out of the Bravo, which is both way too close to Mexico and at that point pretty close to Brown. Then Brown had me go "direct pogee" but after I said I was looking for it :)D) just gave me a vector. I ended up at 2500msl on downwind so it was a fairly steep extended descent from there but smooth touchdown in the end.
 
The controllers at Brown are good but be advised to have your ducks in a row for departure planning, especially with respect to calling Ground for taxi.

The guy who usually handles Brown Ground is a little short sometimes, intersection takeoff 26R at Charlie is an example. Of course if you say 'unfamiliar' at the beginning of your call he'd probably take it easy on you - I should know it better by now but I occasionally get my airports mixed up with respect to which taxiways are where....;^)

'Gimp
 
Richard said:
Is the OP a very low time pilot? Has his basic training been deficient? [...] I've been in and out of SAN many times[--]landing and departing all area airports many times[--][so] I think it is probably undue anxiety [from] which the OP suffers.

Summary[:] you[r] basic training has/has not equipped you to make an unsupervised solo cross country.
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Your negative assessment of OP's proficiency is without evident justification. Nothing in OP's posts suggests an inability to negotiate the area even in the absence of advice from local pilots. Seeking such advice here is a way to make the trip even more convenient; it is not some sort of admission of being unable to safely make the trip without that extra information.
 
It brings up an interesting point, but not really on target for this thread, how different class Bs can be around the country with respect to GA planes. Some are casual, some are rigid, some are easy to get through, some are hard, some like specific wording and reporting, and others have their own lexicon almost. I flew into Miami a few months back and it was like a different world from PHX. I was gonna go into Tamiami exec, but after a few chats with the appr, I said eff it and went over to Homestead(note, take bug spray).
 
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