RV Vans Owners

[Johnny Costello]

I am looking at buying a plane and the RV's are at the top of my list. The problem I have is I do not have anywhere I can build the plane. I live in an area where I do not have a garage or easy access to one. Is there places that build the RV's for you?

 

[DaleB]

Look up Vlad on Vans Air Force. He built his RV-6a mostly in an apartment. That said… there are tons of Flying RVs for sale. Unless it’s an RV-12, it’s not legal to build them for sale commercially.

 

[wilkersk]

I'd definitely look at buying good flying RV, like @DaleB says. Build a hobby, buy to fly.

I bought my RV-8 tail kit in 1998. I didn't have any room to build then. So, it sat un-touched for 14 years. I now have a big house with a 4 car garage, and guess what? The wife parks 2 cars in the garage, fill the shelves with books, shoes and Costco, And, I have the equivalent of a 1 car garage to keep all my home repair/project power tools and supplies, all my airplane tools, work bench cabinets, and incidentally, the airplane I'm building. You literally cannot swing a dead cat in my little space to build. But, its 100% more than what I had, so I'm building.

Incidentally, I bought a little fun-fly airplane a couple of years ago. I rent a hangar for it. So, a lot of RV parts I don't need yet, and the engine are stored there, along with my wife's deceased mother's household goods.

Building an airplane is a continuing commitment, not a short-term project to be endured.

 

[Grum.Man]

There are people that build and sell them but that's pretty much gone away with the rising kit prices, and lengthy lead times. It doesn't really make much sense to pay someone to do it though unless it's the newest one and there aren't any on the market. Older RV6 and 4's can still be had in the 60's. You would be better off starting there and getting it painted to make it your own than paying someone to build one from scratch.

 

[AA5Bman]

I wouldn’t casually consider building. Buy one if you just want to fly - from the outside, it is hard to comprehend how much of a commitment building is.

 

[CJones]

There are some assisted building outfits spread around the country where you rent build space in their shop/hangar (along with other builders) and they have build experts on-hand to help answer questions or provide an extra set of hands as needed, but you are still responsible for building the plane. I have absolutely NO idea what the cost of doing that vs. renting a hangar is, though.

As has been said many times before and still stands true: Build because you want to build. Don't build because you are trying to save a few dollars - the math will never work out.

 

[kell490]

Here is a guy building a Titan T-51 in his house he said he just got divorced another video. I probably would do the same thing seems like a great idea warm and don't have to leave a car parked outside.

 

[OkieAviator]

I built in a 3 car garage and finished up at the hangar. I've watched a few of the T51 videos, I'm sure he's mentioned it but how is he getting it out? Removing the window?

 

[dreyna14]

I would love to build a -14. My wife has encouraged me to do so. I told her I won't because it would end our marriage if I worked on it enough to completed it in a reasonable amount of time.

 

[kmacht]

Back a number of years ago there was a guy that built a xenos motor glider (think Sonex with long wings) in a 3rd floor room of a New Jersey townhouse. The Sonex website and forum had pictures of him getting the wings and finished fusealage out of the building. Where there is a will there is a way.

if you just want an RV then go buy a finished plane. It is going to cost you more to buy the kit and have someone or some company build it for you (not entirely legal) than it would to buy something already flying. The RV series isnt some rare plane that is hard to find deals on. There are literally thousands of them.

 

[kyleb]

I would love to build a -14. My wife has encouraged me to do so. I told her I won't because it would end our marriage if I worked on it enough to completed it in a reasonable amount of time.

Are your sleep patterns identical? I built most of my RV-10 when my wife was asleep or watching the Desperate Housewives from Hell.

 

[kell490]

I built in a 3 car garage and finished up at the hangar. I've watched a few of the T51 videos, I'm sure he's mentioned it but how is he getting it out? Removing the window?

I think he said the window awhile back. I imagine at some point when it gets painted he have to move it out to a hanger. Back in the 90's when I was single I had a 3 bedroom plus master house each room was a different hobby RC planes, Guns & reloading, and one for storage I sure miss those days.

 

[mandm]

How many hours days weeks years does it take to build an RV?

 

[tsts4]

How many hours days weeks years does it take to build an RV?

Thats highly variable. Van’s has listed estimated build hours:

RV-3/4: 2000-2200
RV-7/8/9:1400-1500
R-10: 2000
RV-12: as little as 800
RV-14: 1100-1200

Based upon my own experience I’d say those numbers are way optimistic and really only achievable by an experienced builder who sticks strictly to the plans (ie no major mods). Farming out some work, like building the panel, and going QB helps keep the hour total down too, albeit at a cost— trading money for time.

But the build hours are only the workload part of the equation. What really matters is how much calendar time does it take to go from initial order to flying aircraft. Theoretically if you were retired and made building your full time activity (40 hrs a week) you could build any of these in year. I know of several RV-10s built in less than 18 months but that’s definitely the exception, not the rule. A team is potentially going to build faster than a single individual. However, most of us can’t afford to devote anywhere that kind of time to the project. In reality I would say based on anecdotal evidence that the average build time, depending on the airframe, is between 3-5 years. The newer kits have evolved and have improvements, like match drilled final sized holes which speeds things up.

FWIW, from initial tailkit order to first flight for my RV-10 was 8 years 9 months. When I started I was still active duty USAF and had 2 small kids. 2 deployments, retirement and subsequent start of a civilian career, kit delays, kids sports and school events, vacations, and taking a whole year off between the tailcone and wings, etc, etc all added up.

 

[iamtheari]

I would love to build a -14. My wife has encouraged me to do so. I told her I won't because it would end our marriage if I worked on it enough to completed it in a reasonable amount of time.

My A&P friend helped a bit on my RV-14 build. He got married about 4 months into the project. He always said, "Don't worry, after the wedding I'll have more time to help." The best part was that he really believed it every time he said it.

 

[OkieAviator]

How many hours days weeks years does it take to build an RV?

7

 

[mandm]

Thats highly variable. Van’s has listed estimated build hours:

RV-3/4: 2000-2200
RV-7/8/9:1400-1500
R-10: 2000
RV-12: as little as 800
RV-14: 1100-1200

Based upon my own experience I’d say those numbers are way optimistic and really only achievable by an experienced builder who sticks strictly to the plans (ie no major mods). Farming out some work, like building the panel, and going QB helps keep the hour total down too, albeit at a cost— trading money for time.

But the build hours are only the workload part of the equation. What really matters is how much calendar time does it take to go from initial order to flying aircraft. Theoretically if you were retired and made building your full time activity (40 hrs a week) you could build any of these in year. I know of several RV-10s built in less than 18 months but that’s definitely the exception, not the rule. A team is potentially going to build faster than a single individual. However, most of us can’t afford to devote anywhere that kind of time to the project. In reality I would say based on anecdotal evidence that the average build time, depending on the airframe, is between 3-5 years. The newer kits have evolved and have improvements, like match drilled final sized holes which speeds things up.

FWIW, from initial tailkit order to first flight for my RV-10 was 8 years 9 months. When I started I was still active duty USAF and had 2 small kids. 2 deployments, retirement and subsequent start of a civilian career, kit delays, kids sports and school events, vacations, and taking a whole year off between the tailcone and wings, etc, etc all added up.

Does she fly? Congrats for keeping up with it. I couldn’t put that much time into something, I’m already thinking is the hangar ready and that’s after a few visits ha

 

[tsts4]

Does she fly? Congrats for keeping up with it. I couldn’t put that much time into something, I’m already thinking is the hangar ready and that’s after a few visits ha

Oh yes - first flight was back in May 2015. This is a pic of Charleston SC from a flight this past Tuesday on a return trip from Conway SC back to Florida after dropping my son and his girlfriend off after they spent a long weekend with us in Tampa.

 

[dreyna14]

Are your sleep patterns identical? I built most of my RV-10 when my wife was asleep or watching the Desperate Housewives from Hell.

We had another talk this morning about building. I told her my estimate was one hour per day plus ten on the weekends would give approximately a two year build time. I also stated it would have to be a solid commitment. She is open, I just don't believe that it could be done.

My A&P friend helped a bit on my RV-14 build. He got married about 4 months into the project. He always said, "Don't worry, after the wedding I'll have more time to help." The best part was that he really believed it every time he said it.

Lol. I'm quite the realist and know that time commitments like this are difficult at best. I may end up looking for a partial kit build.

 

[CaptainXap]

We had another talk this morning about building. I told her my estimate was one hour per day plus ten on the weekends would give approximately a two year build time. I also stated it would have to be a solid commitment. She is open, I just don't believe that it could be done.

Given that RVs all use buck rivets, wouldn't it be pretty hard to do that all single-handed?

 

[tsts4]

Given that RVs all use buck rivets, wouldn't it be pretty hard to do that all single-handed?

For practical reasons yes, but even with solid rivets (the 12 has some solid but mostly pulled, the reverse of the other models) between squeezing and getting creative with back-riveting there’s a significant amount of riveting that can be done by a single individual. I set every single rivet in my 10 and I only used help where absolutely necessary. For any given assembly, there’s a lot of work that gets done prior to actually riveting and usually most of that work can be done solo.

 

[dreyna14]

Given that RVs all use buck rivets, wouldn't it be pretty hard to do that all single-handed?

My wife is a high school special ed teacher, part-time university professor, and site union rep. I can't rely on her to always be available to help as she has little energy after all of that. I need to be able to do 95% of the work with minimal assistance.

 

[Midwestrv10]

How many hours days weeks years does it take to build an RV?

I built my RV-10 in 3 yrs 10 months while working a full-time job.

 

[Aviatordoc]

I built my RV-10 in 3 yrs 10 months while working a full-time job.

Was it a Govt job?

 

[Rcmutz]

Good thread, but I’m not sure why I read this and dream?? At 65, while retired with plenty of time, I don’t

Was it a Govt job?

I heard he was a doctor and had every Wednesday off to work on the plane!

 

[Midwestrv10]

lol, No, but I did use some work hours to make calls and place orders etc. But I was salary and my work still got done. I was focused on completing it and keeping momentum going.

 

[kell490]

The time will pass anyway why not build something while it passes the way I think of it. The prices will only keep going up buying a kit sooner locks in the price.

 

[DGlaeser]

Given that RVs all use buck rivets, wouldn't it be pretty hard to do that all single-handed?

I built about 90% of my RV-7A single handed. Only needed help when my arms were too short to get to both sides of the rivet. A lot of rivets can be set with a squeezer.

 

[DaleB]

I built about 90% of my RV-7A single handed. Only needed help when my arms were too short to get to both sides of the rivet. A lot of rivets can be set with a squeezer.

Riveting wing skins springs to mind as a situation where it really comes in handy to have a riveting partner.

 

[kyleb]

Riveting wing skins springs to mind as a situation where it really comes in handy to have a riveting partner.

Plus some of the fuselage skins. I was thinking about this today and figured I probably needed 30 hours of help for all of the stuff on the RV-10 I couldn't rivet solo. The RV-6 wasn't much different.

 

[Racerx]

I would love to build a -14. My wife has encouraged me to do so. I told her I won't because it would end our marriage if I worked on it enough to completed it in a reasonable amount of time.

See, I've heard the opposite. Gives the wife a reason to get you out of the house. Granted I'm single so what do I know?

 

[Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe]

I need to be able to do 95% of the work with minimal assistance.

Jason Ellis is building an RV-10. Check his videos to see how rarely he has his wife there to help (hardly ever). https://www.youtube.com/c/JasonEllisPalamedes

 

[tsts4]

See, I've heard the opposite. Gives the wife a reason to get you out of the house. Granted I'm single so what do I know?

Ha. You heard wrong. Getting you out of the house is the occasional kitchen pass for a round of golf or a fishing trip. Building is akin to working a second job and typically creates the exact opposite problem as far spending time with the significant other. If a builder is smart, they’ll approach any prospective project by first getting spousal buy in, eyes wide open, full truth in lending. Remember the first rule of marriage is happy wife, happy life.

One disclaimer— the above holds true for non-retirees. For retirees, what you heard could very well be true.

 

[Racerx]

Jason Ellis is building an RV-10. Check his videos to see how rarely he has his wife there to help (hardly ever). https://www.youtube.com/c/JasonEllisPalamedes

I've seen some of his videos. How long has he been going at it??

 

[Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe]

For retirees, what you heard could very well be true.

Guy I knew retired from a management job at one of the large auto companies. Started spending all day at home "helping" the wife with stuff. Finally she said "Marvin, I married you for better or for worse, but I didn't marry you for lunch. Go find something to do."

I've seen some of his videos. How long has he been going at it??

A LOT longer than his original estimate.

 

[kyleb]

Guy I knew retired from a management job at one of the large auto companies. Started spending all day at home "helping" the wife with stuff. Finally she said "Marvin, I married you for better or for worse, but I didn't marry you for lunch, go find something to do."

People need time sucking hobbies in retirement. Sitting around reading the obits or doing household chores is misery. Travel, airplanes, hiking, whatever it takes to get you moving most days...

There are people who worked so hard (and were probably very career successful) they never developed hobbies as adults. The adjustment from working 80 hours a week to being retired is tough for them.

 

[dreyna14]

See, I've heard the opposite. Gives the wife a reason to get you out of the house. Granted I'm single so what do I know?

I've always been of the belief that time away is just as important as time together. That being said, building a plane amounts to a ****load of time away.

Ha. You heard wrong. Getting you out of the house is the occasional kitchen pass for a round of golf or a fishing trip. Building is akin to working a second job and typically creates the exact opposite problem as far spending time with the significant other. If a builder is smart, they’ll approach any prospective project by first getting spousal buy in, eyes wide open, full truth in lending. Remember the first rule of marriage is happy wife, happy life.

One disclaimer— the above holds true for non-retirees. For retirees, what you heard could very well be true.

Well, I spent a good amount of time researching this past weekend and informing the wife of what is involved and the commitment necessary. She asked if it was possible to order a part of it and build it to see where that puts us. So, I've filled out the order form to bring home and set things in stone. If it's a go, I'm going to order an RV-14 empennage kit, tomorrow.

 

[kyleb]

Well, I spent a good amount of time researching this past weekend and informing the wife of what is involved and the commitment necessary. She asked if it was possible to order a part of it and build it to see where that puts us. So, I've filled out the order form to bring home and set things in stone. If it's a go, I'm going to order an RV-14 empennage kit, tomorrow.

Get yourself a couple of the practice kits, a decent tool set, $10 of rivets, and a half dozen 1'x1' pieces of 0.032 and 0.025 aluminum from Aircraft Spruce and spend a month practicing your riveting skills on that. 15 minutes a day for a month with a rivet gun and bucking bar will aid you immensely. And find a local builder or three to show you the ropes so your learning curve isn't so steep.

You will not get better advice than this...

 

[Daleandee]

For retirees, what you heard could very well be true.

What is it the wife says when you retire? "Now I have twice the husband and half the money."

 

[dreyna14]

Get yourself a couple of the practice kits, a decent tool set, $10 of rivets, and a half dozen 1'x1' pieces of 0.032 and 0.025 aluminum from Aircraft Spruce and spend a month practicing your riveting skills on that. 15 minutes a day for a month with a rivet gun and bucking bar will aid you immensely. And find a local builder or three to show you the ropes so your learning curve isn't so steep.

You will not get better advice than this...

I ordered two of the practice kits from Vans, today. Unfortunately, they are back ordered. I'll look into getting a few tools and items to assist with those kits. While I'm very mechanically inclined and qualify aircraft hydraulic components for a living, I won't dive into anything that could kill me without some practice, first.