RV capabilities

I've not been looking close at Van's for long... started to daydream a little bit before sun n fun about a 14 as a retirement project.....
but in the little bit I've been looking
I'm surprised that there doesn't seem to be more with drastic customizations.... with the can-do homebuilder folks that really are creative do-ers.
altered/improved canopies for example...
or crazy experimental modifications...retract gear maybe, etc.... just improvements in general
from what little bit I've seen most seem to follow the design direction with only much more "low impact" design changes.... maybe that speaks to their not being all that much room for improvements...must be pretty solid designs I recon.
 
That.

And follow the plans and the wing won’t fall off. And following the plans still takes 5 years to build, so might not be a lot of desire to develop, test, etc other drastic modifications
 
Brad W said:
I'm surprised that there doesn't seem to be more with drastic customizations.... with the can-do homebuilder folks that really are creative do-ers.
altered/improved canopies for example...
or crazy experimental modifications...retract gear maybe, etc.... just improvements in general
Click to expand...

What type of a canopy "improvement"?? You can already get both sliders and tipovers from Vans. To have a new canopy blown and fitted to a new frame an mechanism (for what purpose??) is an extreme undertaking. And there have been a couple people who built an RV with retracts, and guess what...they were only a few KTS faster, weighed a lot more, killed useful load, and it was an enormous project.

These planes are designed to be assembled without the need for significant fabrication skills. People who want to do all that will build something other than an RV. There is no need.
 
RoscoeT said:
What type of a canopy "improvement"?? You can already get both sliders and tipovers from Vans. To have a new canopy blown and fitted to a new frame an mechanism (for what purpose??) is an extreme undertaking.
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There are aftermarket canopies available, and the fastback mod is popular with more than a handful of -4's and -8's. Van's seems to be attracting the crowd that wants to build a very capable airplane without the hassle/fun of DIY and experimenting. There are still people doing tapered wings, retracts, etc, but the market demands a more conventional directed assembly approach these days.

RoscoeT said:
These planes are designed to be assembled without the need for significant fabrication skills. People who want to do all that will build something other than an RV. There is no need.
Click to expand...
Or I could have just quoted this, which says it better :)

Nauga,
whose instructions were much shorter
 
re. the canopies...
it just strikes me that a lot of energy is spent debating which of their two offerings are better...and honestly neither, I think, are perfect.
  • sliders reduce visibilty
  • tip ups leak in the rain.... Even the van's demonstrator at their tent during sun n fun had a lot of water in after the rain...
  • sliders probbaly leak too
  • I like opening windowS and doorS...(a-la Cessna)
  • etc...
I know there are are reasons and arguments all sorts of ways....
and I'm not saying that I have a completely baked idea that would be any better...
I just know that the community has some pretty creative people in it....so I'm a bit
surprised
and it's not always about being better in EVERY way...sometimes creative folks scratch build things that are just different...or better in some ways....
 
Brad W said:
I'm surprised that there doesn't seem to be more with drastic customizations.... with the can-do homebuilder folks that really are creative do-ers.
altered/improved canopies for example...
or crazy experimental modifications...retract gear maybe, etc.... just improvements in general
from what little bit I've seen most seem to follow the design direction with only much more "low impact" design changes.... maybe that speaks to their not being all that much room for improvements...must be pretty solid designs I recon.
Click to expand...

There are some (2 multi-engine RVs, one of crashed during an inadvertent takeoff during a taxi test, the otehr flew to OSH last year, there's a radial powered RV-8, an RV-6 float plane, plus countless mods like air conditioning, cargo pods, etc) but the fact is the complexion of the E-AB world has changed significantly since the 1990's. The introduction of complete kits changed the landscape forever. The balance between education and recreation has shifted way towards the recreation side. Meaning that most builders want to get in the air and fly, myself included, and don't want to spend the effort (which can be considerable both in time and money with no guarantee of success) to make major modifications, assuming they have the skills to do so in the first place. A good example is that most RV builders opt for a Lycoming as their engine of choice vs some esoteric auto-conversion. Experimentation has been relegated to that small percentage that still enjoy that aspect of building--same can be said of plans only builders I suppose. The bottom line is if it's certified as E-AB do what you want -- you just have to ask yourself is the juice worth the squeeze?
 
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nauga said:
I wonder how Vashon feels about that? ;)

Nauga,
on the outside
Click to expand...

Dunno, but the Ranger is an LSA. The RV-15 won't be, not at least based upon the mighty few details Van's has published so far. Hoping they will fill the info void at OSH
 
Brad W said:
I'm surprised that there doesn't seem to be more with drastic customizations....
Click to expand...
Given that Vans gives you pretty much a big-bag-o-parts ready to assemble, customizing means throwing brand new stuff away so you can replace it.
I would think that someone who wants custom is more likely to start out with something like a T-18, and Vans appeals more to someone wanting Tab A into Slot B type directions.
 
I would think the RV-10 would be the most comfortable for longer trips by far due to its size. I have flown in the 6, 7 with both being tight cockpits and I'm only 6 feet 185lbs. I did sit in a 14 and a 10 with the 10 having the best seating for me. My Piper Archer is more comfortable than all of them other than the 10. Its nice to have forward/aft and vertical seat adjustments as found in my Archer. I like sitting more upright.

When I was 20 years old everything was comfortable. Now at age 60 I want comfort.
 
Baron62 said:
My Piper Archer is more comfortable than all of them other than the 10. Its nice to have forward/aft and vertical seat adjustments as found in my Archer. I like sitting more upright.
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The 10's front seats adjust fore/aft and the backs recline, but there's no vertical adjustment in the seat itself. The rear seats have no adjustment whatsoever, but can be quickly removed.
 
[QUOTE="Baron62, post: 3264734, member: 29371"When I was 20 years old everything was comfortable. Now at age 60 I want comfort.[/QUOTE]

Amen brother. If vans makes a high wing equivalent to a 182 that I could build in 6 months I’d do that in a heart beat. But that is never going to happen.
 
yeah, I suppose that all makes good
sense.
I guess I was thinking that it among the many that have built RV's surely some were in that over the top scratch built kinda mind set and very inovative. I'd like to think that if I were a good bit more creative and smarter than I am, that I'd like to think i'd be one of those types....but that doing something like that but with a kit would be a bit more realistic as a time investment...juggling many other things in life and all....
 
10 years to mod it into a twin? That’s a significant % of my remaining life. Probably 75% of my remaining flying years.
 
Baron62 said:
I would think the RV-10 would be the most comfortable for longer trips by far due to its size. I have flown in the 6, 7 with both being tight cockpits and I'm only 6 feet 185lbs. I did sit in a 14 and a 10 with the 10 having the best seating for me. My Piper Archer is more comfortable than all of them other than the 10. Its nice to have forward/aft and vertical seat adjustments as found in my Archer. I like sitting more upright.

When I was 20 years old everything was comfortable. Now at age 60 I want comfort.
Click to expand...

Seat comfort in a RV is highly dependent on the seats and material used. The first RV6 I flew was horribly uncomfortable however the one I purchased was great. 3 hour flights were no problem and I covered 600 miles. The Rocket I now own has poor seats. A call to Oregan Aero and a chunk of cash and they are now great.
 
Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe said:
Given that Vans gives you pretty much a big-bag-o-parts ready to assemble, customizing means throwing brand new stuff away so you can replace it.
I would think that someone who wants custom is more likely to start out with something like a T-18, and Vans appeals more to someone wanting Tab A into Slot B type directions.
Click to expand...

I don't know if this comment was in jest, but Vans is great to deal with. You can delete parts you don't want so that you can customize or obtain parts from other sources. We built an RV-9A, and we have nothing but high praise for Vans. Just thought I would set the record straight... from my first-hand interaction with the company.
 
WDD said:
[QUOTE="Baron62, post: 3264734, member: 29371"When I was 20 years old everything was comfortable. Now at age 60 I want comfort.
Click to expand...

Amen brother. If vans makes a high wing equivalent to a 182 that I could build in 6 months I’d do that in a heart beat. But that is never going to happen.[/QUOTE]

Check out the Sling high wing. Looks very interesting.

https://slingaircraft.com/aircraft/sling-hw/
 
Lycosaurus said:
I don't know if this comment was in jest, but Vans is great to deal with. You can delete parts you don't want so that you can customize or obtain parts from other sources.
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I did not know that. And that was not a dis-respect for Vans customer service.
But I will stand by my opinion that a lot of the appeal of an RV-xx is the detailed instructions and manufactured parts for a worry free assembly as opposed to something like a T-18 where you pretty much roll your own from flat stock.
 
Randy Schlitter from Rans made a sketch of the rv15. It was a joke but I got a chuckle. If they ever decide to make a six seat rv I'll be in line. I know the complaint is how much longer it would take. And how much more expensive it would be. But look at the 14 vs 10. The difference isn't as great as you'd think. They did mention a 16 was in the works. Said it before and I'll say it again, the future of GA is in EAB.

227364134_10221392331052692_406700192303988112_n.jpg
 
Maybe - if the FAA would get rid if the 50% rule and allow a plane to be out together from pre manufactured components to get assembly down to a few months vs 5 - 10 years.
 
WDD said:
Maybe - if the FAA would get rid if the 50% rule and allow a plane to be out together from pre manufactured components to get assembly down to a few months vs 5 - 10 years.
Click to expand...
RV-12s have no such restriction; it’s fine to have them assembled by pros. They’re not nearly as fast as the others, of course, and won’t carry as much.

Quick build kits reduce build time greatly. I know a lot of RVs don’t fly for 5-10 years or longer, but there are plenty built in less time than that. I’ve known a few guys who have finished them in less. Not me; I worked on a 7 for three years and was MAYBE halfway through when I had to sell it. Would have been farther along if I’d had a heated and air conditioned garage.
 
RV15 mini-caravan?

aXUBws1.png
 
tsts4 said:
Dunno, but the Ranger is an LSA. The RV-15 won't be, not at least based upon the mighty few details Van's has published so far. Hoping they will fill the info void at OSH
Click to expand...
They said it'll be geared towards the backcountry peeps. I'm guessing Kitfox/Highlander on steroids
 
I’m betting the -15 will be similar to the Rans S-21 Outbound. They already said high wing and back country capable. Probably will have two seats and an O-360. My guess is either a -9 or -14 wing with a cockpit about the same as a -14. If that’s the case, I might be interested in building one.
 
Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe said:
Given that Vans gives you pretty much a big-bag-o-parts ready to assemble, customizing means throwing brand new stuff away so you can replace it.
I would think that someone who wants custom is more likely to start out with something like a T-18, and Vans appeals more to someone wanting Tab A into Slot B type directions.
Click to expand...

It is relatively easy to customize an RV. Delete this part or that series of parts, fabricate your replacement parts, and rock on. That said, the well developed kits are a huge plus. The other plus is that if you spend $100K to build an RV, an equivalently equipped Brand X will ultimately cost you about the same, but will resell for substantially less. So more time and effort invested, same money, and less resale if you go the Non-Van's route.
 
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