Rudder Use Tips

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Arik L

Filing Flight Plan
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Arik
Hello,

Since the beginning of my aviation journey, I have lots of trouble remembering to use the rudder, especially in turns while in the air.

Any tips and tricks you guys can share so I can develop better habits in terms of rudder use?

Thanks
 
Arik L said:
Hello,

Since the beginning of my aviation journey, I have lots of trouble remembering to use the rudder, especially in turns while in the air.

Any tips and tricks you guys can share so I can develop better habits in terms of rudder use?

Thanks
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Sure, go get some time in a tailwheel airplane. You won’t forget about rudder use anymore.
 
That's my plan once I've done with my PPL, I'm trying to find some good exercises for the training I'm in now, without switching airplanes in between.
 
Hard to break the habit of thinking of the yoke like the steering wheel of your car. Couple of things - 1. bring this up to your CFI. They might have some tips. 2. For me, when I was learning (and I'm still learning, trust me), looking at the ball helped. Making a right turn? Make sure you keep the ball centered if it is drifting off to the right. I think what my CFI told me was to step on the ball. In other words - press the rudder pedal that is in the direction the ball has moved. That helped a lot. That and just feeling the fact that my butt felt like it was sliding to the outside of a turn unless I used more rudder. 3. Practice practice practice... maybe go up with your CFI and ask that you just focus on making coordinated turns. They will probably appreciate your desire to master what is a basis airmanship skill. And you will be a better pilot for it. (and your future back-seat passengers will thank you for it!)
 
Deelee said:
Hard to break the habit of thinking of the yoke like the steering wheel of your car. Couple of things - 1. bring this up to your CFI. They might have some tips. 2. For me, when I was learning (and I'm still learning, trust me), looking at the ball helped. Making a right turn? Make sure you keep the ball centered if it is drifting off to the right. I think what my CFI told me was to step on the ball. In other words - press the rudder pedal that is in the direction the ball has moved. That helped a lot. That and just feeling the fact that my butt felt like it was sliding to the outside of a turn unless I used more rudder. 3. Practice practice practice... maybe go up with your CFI and ask that you just focus on making coordinated turns. They will probably appreciate your desire to master what is a basis airmanship skill. And you will be a better pilot for it. (and your future back-seat passengers will thank you for it!)
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An hour or two of coordinated turns sounds like a great idea.
Thanks
 
Welcome to PoA.

It's easy to remember because you should usually use them together, usually in the same direction.
 
Arik L said:
Hello,

Since the beginning of my aviation journey, I have lots of trouble remembering to use the rudder, especially in turns while in the air.

Any tips and tricks you guys can share so I can develop better habits in terms of rudder use?

Thanks
Click to expand...
For me it was hours of s turns .picked a 10 mile stretch of straight road and s your way up and down. Develops coordination.
 
After about 100hours of doing steep turns in a glider I started to feel like I could sort of make consistently coordinated turns, ie. appropriate rudder use.
Airplanes with adverse yaw, like a lot of tailwheel airplanes and gliders, it just takes practice and attention to the ball to insure you are doing them will Lots of Steep turns while paying attention to the Ball will help quite a bit. Most airplanes require very little rudder input, even tailwheel and gliders for turning, but they do require some. After a while you will get a feel for how fast the plane should be turning for a given bank angle if it isn't turning fast enough or is turning to fast for a given bank angle then you probably don't have the ball centered.

Brian
CFIIG/ASEL
 
Fly something with some real adverse yaw. Then you’ll realize that the rudder pedals aren’t just footrests. Tailwheel flying may also help.

Many people have never really learned to use their feet because many of the airplanes commonly used for training in the last several decades have design features that minimize the need for rudder input.
 
DaleB said:
Fly with a CFI who won't let you forget to keep the ball centered? That usually works.
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This. Although I would use the term “keep coordinated” instead of “keep the ball centered”. There are some differences.

You’re not going to change behavior without extensive conscious practice. Unfortunately there are no quick fixes. It’s just what a coworker calls “brute force learning”.
 
Another thing that will help a lot is actively work at keeping the center line of the runway between the main wheels during takeoff and landing.

Brian
 
Fly an older airplane that requires rudder. I have a kit plane, a CGS hawk, just a small step up from an ultralight. If you are not aggressive with the rudder, it just doesn't want to turn. Fly something like that for a while and it will become second nature. When I'm in my 180, I have to remind myself to use LESS rudder!
 
Get a different CFI

Sometime I still hear more right rudder in my head when I get in the plane
 
Rudder is important in turns, but I forget sometimes too. Having a yaw damper makes it less of a sin, but turns are better when you keep things centered.

The place you really need to focus on rudder usage in landing, especially with a crosswind. My advice is not to worry about where the rudder is, glance at the ball during turns and after liftoff, make sure it's centered. During landings use the rudder to keep the nose aligned with the runway, using the ailerons to stay over the centerline. Sometimes it will feel like you are dancing on the rudder, making corrections, that control of the aircraft is what your instructor will be looking for.
 
Go fly a Quad City Challenger ultralight like sport plane. Them things are the adverse yaw kings!

They are pushers so we used to use a piece of yarn on the windshield to aid students in coordination until we could get their derrieres trained to feel when the plane was slippin' & slidin' all over the place. If you move the stick without the rudder you will think something must have broken ... :eek:
 
WannFly said:
Sometime I still hear more right rudder in my head when I get in the plane
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I hear in the Lancair IVPT one needs to use left rudder with power reductions.
 
RyanB gave the best advice. Go find someone with a small tailwheel airplane. After a few hours in it, your rudder management will be like riding a bicycle. I know it’s extra time and expense, but it would be worthwhile.

My first seven hours were in an Aeronca Champ. Once I got into a tricycle, I hardly knew that the rudder pedals were there unless I was cross controlling or slipping.
 
It takes work to learn the skill and many, many, many hours for most people to truly feel minor amounts of yaw. @Southpaw "s" turns seem like a good idea. There is also no reason not to learn a simple commercial manuever known as a chandelle. This will challenge your rudder skills and make level turns seems much easier. As a wise New Yorker said when asked how to get to Carnegie Hall - Practice.
 
My student finally figured out she could actually feel it in her butt when she didn't use enough rudder. She's flying a Rans S6S Coyote II. Oh, and she soloed this past Monday morning......Did an EXCELLENT job. :)
 
Arik L said:
Hello,

Since the beginning of my aviation journey, I have lots of trouble remembering to use the rudder, especially in turns while in the air.

Any tips and tricks you guys can share so I can develop better habits in terms of rudder use?

Thanks
Click to expand...
Send your glutes out for mandatory sensitivity training, so that you can feel in the seat of your pants when you're uncoordinated, without having to look at the ball.

Then (unless you're in a deliberate slip to lose altitude or line up in a crosswind), do whatever it takes with the rudder to keep even pressure on both glutes … and the ball centred.
 
Crosswind landings. If you don't learn to use the rudder properly it will be a sweaty/bloody palm day...but master crosswinds and you will understand the importance of the rudder in any plane.
 
Dutch Rolls

Rolling on a heading
Dutch roll is also the name (considered by professionals to be a misnomer) given to a coordination maneuver generally taught to student pilots to help them improve their "stick-and-rudder" technique. The aircraft is alternately rolled as much as 60 degrees left and right while rudder is applied to keep the nose of the aircraft pointed at a fixed point. More correctly, this is a rudder coordination practice exercise, to teach a student pilot how to correct for the effect known as adverse aileron yaw during roll inputs.

This coordination technique is better referred to as "rolling on a heading", wherein the aircraft is rolled in such a way as to maintain an accurate heading without the nose moving from side-to-side (or yawing). The yaw motion is induced through the use of ailerons alone due to aileron drag, wherein the lifting wing (aileron down) is doing more work than the descending wing (aileron up) and therefore creates more drag, forcing the lifting wing back, yawing the aircraft toward it. This yawing effect produced by rolling motion is known as adverse yaw. This has to be countered precisely by application of rudder in the same direction as the aileron control (left stick, left rudder – right stick, right rudder). This is known as synchronised controls when done properly, and is difficult to learn and apply well. The correct amount of rudder to apply with aileron is different for each aircraft.
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A couple more suggestions:
1. Pick a long runway, start your takeoff roll as if to do a soft-field, takeoff, but back off on power enough to just roll down the runway with nosewheel off the ground (kind of tricky to do, the plane will want to lift off).
2. Get your CFI, and go do the "Falling Leaf" stall maneuver.
 
Do you use right rudder on all your takeoffs after liftoff to counter left-turning tendency? If not, start. It will wake up your at the beginning of every flight. And like others have said, pay attention to your a$$. It can feel uncoordinated flight.
 
Think of your hands and feet as being interconnected for the most part. Also uncoordinated turns are uncomfortable so you should be able to feel how sloppy the turn is.
 
jordane93 said:
Think of your hands and feet as being interconnected for the most part. Also uncoordinated turns are uncomfortable so you should be able to feel how sloppy the turn is.
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Exactly, and that's doubly important in turbulence. Every time the nose or a wing drops and you pull it back up, you need to use some rudder to counter the adverse yaw, even though you're not changing the direction of flight.

In rough air, your hands and feet have to be moving together in an intricate dance; otherwise, half the "turbulence" you're experiencing will be pilot-induced (the plane overreacting to your last incomplete control input, and so on).
 
First 4 lessons were in a Piper J 3, no electric, no vacuum or gyro instruments, but did have a "Ball".
Every instructor stressed that the ball should remain centered at all times. That introduction to flying prepared me for proper attention to the ball and rudder pedals in all planes I flew later, regardless of the additional instruments they may have had. That in turn put me ahead of the plane when I started instrument training. My feet always reacted early for all gyrations of the planes I flew.
 
The old Dutch Roll where we banked 45 degree bank left and right while keeping the nose (between our legs in a side by side airplane) pointed directly at a distant target. This old maneuver requires proper rudder usage, that is to lead rudder. Adverse yaw, caused by the down aileron inducing more life and pulling more air than the up aileron, happens immediately with aileron movement so following with coordinated rudder is not going to prevent the nose from going the wrong way initially. To prevent the nose from going left we must push right rudder ahead of right aileron. If we don't lead right rudder, if we apply aileron and rudder at the same time, the nose always goes left initially. Dutch rolls to 45 degree bank will prove this to us.

Once in the turn after lead rudder and then aileron, we can use rate of nose movement for the angle of bank rather than looking down at the ball. If the nose is moving too slow for the bank (the common slipping turn) we speed it up with rudder. If we are slipping, we will be sagging a bit into the turn. If we jab too much rudder, the nose will jump ahead too fast for the angle of bank, a skid. If we are skidding the nose is moving too fast for that angle of bank and we will be slung away from the turn a bit.
 
Yes, when high and smooth. When low crop dusting or patrolling pipeline at 200' AGL, we have many other things to look at. The ball would be a dangerous distraction, as would any instrument. The ball is a good crutch for use when learning how rudder pulls aileron and basic coordination. Once we have taught our body, our muscle memory, the aggressive maneuvering necessary when both vertical space and horizontal space available are limited, should be accomplished heads up. Watch the ball while banking left and right to 45 degree bank all while holding the nose on a distant target. OK. First it can't be done. If we have someone else watching the ball, they will see it moving away from the yaw when we lead rudder followed by aileron to bank. The ball will move away but the nose will move in the direction of desired turn/bank. Yes, aileron is necessary to get the bank but leading rudder is necessary to prevent adverse yaw from completely upsetting the Dutch Roll maneuver. I know modern pilots don't want to call it Dutch Roll as it was called for the first forty years of my aviation experience, but to us old pilots it is still the Dutch Roll and forever will be. It, more accurately than the ball, will let us know if we are using the rudder correctly.

Your Cherokee has bungee connect between the rudder and aileron, but when you maneuver aggressively it will not keep up. Also it will never lead rudder properly to cause the nose to first go (yaw) in the proper direction. The coordination of the bungee connect will apply rudder with your aileron movement. That is behind the initial adverse yaw and the nose going opposite the direction of the yoke movement.

Lots of flying gets done without rudder pulling aileron. Minor awkwardness occurs until uncontrolled situations arise which require aggressive and proper rudder usage, perhaps rudder only usage as with leveling the wing when too slow for the ailerons to work efficiently but prop blast has the rudder working really well. Say putting the power in full and pulling up to incorrectly initiate a go around. Those times when we have no business looking at the instruments, including the ball.
 
Dutch Rolls is the way to learn the rudder. It is one of the first maneuvers I do whenever I fly a different tail number. A smooth, gentle roll of about 20 - 30 degrees left and right while keeping the nose on a distant point will give you the feel of how much to lead the rudder. Saying out loud "rudder - ailerons" is about the right timing to lead the rudder.
 
E-mail me at jadulin@gmail.com for my free e-books Contact Flying Revised and Safe Maneuvering Flight Techniques for a more extensive explanation of the basic low ground effect takeoff, Dutch Rolls, the energy management no load factor at any bank turn (Wolfgang's law of the roller coaster and just letting the nose go down as designed in all turns, rudder turns in low ground effect, angle across in strong crosswind, mountain flying using down drainage and thermal and orographic lift, and the apparent brisk walk rate of closure approach to touchdown slowly and softly on the number every time with power. What causes the airplane to stall? It is not the airplane, which is designed for the nose to go down rather than stall. Critical angle of attack is when it happens, not what causes it to happen.
 
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