Roadblocks in purchasing a plane. What can I do?

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James331 said:
The plane is waaaay over priced

Your job, the loan, the whole thing, it's just all really off the cuff sounding like a bad idea
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Looks like a decent plane to me...you could buy this or you can buy a cheap 150 @ $10k, spend $20k on an engine and another $10k on a paint job. But agreed it is not a good choice for OP. He is better off with something with "okay" paint/engine time, priced accordingly.
 
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dmspilot said:
lol, good luck with that.
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Umm.....don't "lol" at me. I'm not speculating. It's a fact. Did you not see the "I know a guy" part? My original instructor does my dad's annuals for free because we let him hunt on our land for free. I could probably get the annuals done for free actually, but I decided I'd probably compensate him a little bit for it, which is why I put $250 for the annual cost. So don't "lol" at me.
 
"Our" land. It is your father's land. But maybe you can trade on that to get a free annual. I wouldn't, but who knows.

I say pull the trigger as soon as you can get someone to give you the loan. It will be a great life lesson.
 
EchoKilo said:
Umm.....don't "lol" at me. I'm not speculating. It's a fact. Did you not see the "I know a guy" part? My original instructor does my dad's annuals for free because we let him hunt on our land for free. I could probably get the annuals done for free actually, but I decided I'd probably compensate him a little bit for it, which is why I put $250 for the annual cost. So don't "lol" at me.
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He’s not talking about the cost of labor. He’s talking about the cost of parts.

Priced any Cessna parts lately?

“Annuals” usually lead to finding things wrong and having to fix them. With parts.

The alternator on that thing costs more than your “annual” estimate.
 
denverpilot said:
He’s not talking about the cost of labor. He’s talking about the cost of parts.

Priced any Cessna parts lately?

“Annuals” usually lead to finding things wrong and having to fix them. With parts.

The alternator on that thing costs more than your “annual” estimate.
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And I never disputed that. I was just talking about the annual itself. If something isn't right, I'll either have it fixed, or the plane will stay grounded until I can. But I think it's already been established that I'm not getting the plane.
 
denverpilot said:
It has? Why? Save up the cash and go get it (or one just like it). Or are you saying just this particular one?
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Yeah, this particular one. But I just don't make enough money. It would take me years to save up $20k.
 
EchoKilo said:
Don't tell me who's land it is.
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Is your name on the deed? My apologies if it is. My son's name is not on the deed to my land. Alough he also uses the word "our", nothing about it is his.

I still encourage you to buy an airplane. Sincere best of luck with it.

Grammar check someone - whose? who's?
 
EchoKilo said:
Yeah, this particular one. But I just don't make enough money. It would take me years to save up $20k.
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do a deal with your dad to share costs and maybe ownership of his 172 xp.
i guess you live there on your folks property, where he keeps and flew his plane from his own strip.
how good a deal could that be for you all.
 
if you rent a 172 sp for 140 and fly 8 hr a mo,,,
owning a 150 yourself with normal costs would be about 98 hr.
but you can keep it at home and save some of those.
 
EchoKilo said:
Yeah, this particular one. But I just don't make enough money. It would take me years to save up $20k.
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That’s what jobs number two and three were for for me many years ago. My family didn’t have money to pay for my flight training at 19. I had to go earn it.

They’d toss a couple hundred bucks my way from time to time after they realized I was serious about it, as gifts at birthday or Christmas or whatever, but ultimately if I wanted to fly, I went to work.

My “weekend” was when I could schedule off of work at one of the jobs to go flying. Most weeks I didn’t have a day off. That wasn’t even in my vocabulary.

It took me over a year to earn my Private certificate, one extra paycheck from the extra jobs at a time. And the finish up push was a whole lot of OT. I think family helped with the examiner’s fee.

Flying has never been cheap. Owning is even more expensive. Nobody else in my family until you get waaaay out to a distant great cousin flies or owns an airplane. They all still make jokes to this day about my tenacity to do it, once I realized I liked it. And nowadays I trade emails with “Uncle Jim” who owns and flies a nice Maule and is close to retirement.

I studied a whole bunch while sitting in a gas station island on the overnight shift.

Welcome to real life. Hop on and ride it or it’ll ride you. :)

Get aggressive about it. Write down how long it would take to buy the thing and then start seeing if you can shorten the timeframe. A couple of years at your age isn’t any big deal.

Two years of hustle for what, another 60 flying? Sounds like a reasonable trade off to me.
 
robert lomax said:
you say you rent a 172 sp for 140 hr now,,,,
but i have read all of your posts,,,
i wonder why i havent read anything about an actual flying lesson since 7 years ago...
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And I don't feel compelled to tell you about them either. God, I swear. People on the internet.
 
EchoKilo said:
Yeah, this particular one. But I just don't make enough money. It would take me years to save up $20k.
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It sucks, but if that’s true then ownership is a horrible idea for you. If you want to fly it’s a Club or partnership, and do some hard work to get yourself into an actual career. There’s nothing wrong with working in the service industry. But if you want a hobby like flying you need a real job.
 
Salty said:
It sucks, but if that’s true then ownership is a horrible idea for you. If you want to fly it’s a Club or partnership, and do some hard work to get yourself into an actual career. There’s nothing wrong with working in the service industry. But if you want a hobby like flying you need a real job.
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he doesnt need a real job,,, he just needs to work something approaching real hours!


i had trouble,,, i cant keep my math straight this late...
 
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Screw a 150. Buy whatever you want and finance it by running illegal goods across the border. Makes about as much sense and puts you in the same place as cheating on taxes and blabbing about it on the internet.
 
PilotRPI said:
Screw a 150. Buy whatever you want and finance it by running illegal goods across the border. Makes about as much sense and puts you in the same place as cheating on taxes and blabbing about it on the internet.
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and your idea doesnt even consider his plan to set up a big charter flight operation
to fly big wig, party goers and tourists on sight seeing tours over nashville....


God,, I swear,, i'm a people on the internet!
 
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You know how I know this is a troll?

EchoKilo said:
Seeing that I'm in my 20s and never had a girlfriend, my prospects of ever getting married seem extraordinarily low, so we can throw that one away.
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We all know that pilots get all the ladies. :)
 
I think the roadblocks you’re experiencing here are the same ones you’re experiencing in your career, relationships, etc. think about it.
 
Dreaming is good, but dreams without a plan are just that, dreams, a plan without action is just a plan. Talk is cheap, actions speak volumes. You've got a dream, you've come up with a plan, it sucks and is not going to work (the plan I am talking about is going to the bank to finance the 150 without a better paying job or credit), so you need a better plan and you need to execute that plan. Most likely you are a few years away with a good plan, make a bad plan or don't execute then it will never happen. It's all on you. No whining.

Edit: Changed the wording, waiting tables is a real job, just not enough to fly in many cases.
 
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I guess most of these aggressive responders here have never been in the service business or waited tables earlier in life. Sheesh
 
Ben Sanford said:
I guess most of these aggressive responders here have never been in the service business or waited tables earlier in life. Sheesh
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Not while thinking we could afford to own an airplane.
 
I really and truly hate hate hate to say this. The OP should not be an airplane owner. If you can't afford the purchase price of a Cessna 150 you can't afford GA. Sorry. I know it sounds harsh, and I really and truly hate to say it. But aircraft can be financial albatrosses. We're all way too close to needing an engine overhaul or some other expensive repair. Ongoing expenses can dwarf the acquisition costs. If one hasn't sufficient income to afford the purchase price of one of the most inexpensive GA aircraft one doesn't belong in the game.

Again, it really does break my hear to say this. But I feel that it truly is reality. The only way I can see someone owning an airplane on the cheap is if they can turn time and sweat equity into airplane. I've known some who've done it, but it takes some mechanical aptitude and lots of time and effort.

I would mentor the OP to have some patience and to wait until they're at the point in their career where they have a little more financial wherewithal. Either that, or get really good at wrenching.
 
EchoKilo said:
Umm.....don't "lol" at me. I'm not speculating. It's a fact.
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On the contrary, speculating is exactly what you're doing. Your hypothetical $250 annual is not a fact until after it happens.

In addition to your pie-in-the-sky annual estimate, you budgeted absolutely nothing for non-routine maintenance. Actually you didn't budget routine maintenance either. Oil changes, anyone? Tires? An older car costs more to maintain than what you're estimating for an airplane.

EchoKilo said:
Did you not see the "I know a guy" part? My original instructor does my dad's annuals for free because we let him hunt on our land for free. I could probably get the annuals done for free actually, but I decided I'd probably compensate him a little bit for it, which is why I put $250 for the annual cost. So don't "lol" at me.
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Considering I quoted it, it's safe to assume that I saw it.
 
EchoKilo said:
Seeing that I'm in my 20s and never had a girlfriend, my prospects of ever getting married seem extraordinarily low, so we can throw that one away. If anything, my situation can only improve from here. Once I finish school I should have a job paying around $60-$70k.
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How long until you get this job? Why couldn't you just wait until then?
 
Aren't you the one who said you started in your dad's 172XP and were just wanting to finish what you started and maybe slowly ease into flying as a hobby? If that's the case, why not use the money to finish you license in that 172? Find a cfi that can get you comfortable in it. Plenty of people start in something with more guts than that plane.
 
StevieTimes said:
It's selling for $26,000 now, but sold for 23,000-24,500 a year ago. Did it receive upgrades, or do these things appreciate? If I've got the right plane...
http://www.cessna150152.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=524478&page=1
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It wasn't worth it then, it's not worth that now.



dmspilot said:
Looks like a decent plane to me...you could buy this or you can buy a cheap 150 @ $10k, spend $20k on an engine and another $10k on a paint job. But agreed it is not a good choice for OP. He is better off with something with "okay" paint/engine time, priced accordingly.
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For sure it appears to be a decent plane, a decent 18k plane (tops).
For his price I'd expect some type of /G navcom at a minimum, and also a owner who knew better than to put slicks on it.


Plenty lower engine time 150s kicking around for sub 20k



Also if you're paying 20k to overhaul a 0-200, well I wish I knew you back when I was a kid selling cars.
 
steingar said:
When I was in my 20's I could barely afford pants.
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In fairness I bought a Skywagon at 23, but that came with it being my only goal in life for a decade. An engineering degree, and a co-op (and internships) where I regularly worked 80 hours weeks to build up enough to buy it in cash with enough leftover for maintenance.

That being said, I'm inclined to agree that maybe aircraft ownership isn't (yet) the best idea for the OP. Sure a 150 is a lot cheaper than a 180, but there are so many things that go into aircraft purchases regardless of the plane:
Purchase costs (pre-buy)
Cost to go see the plane (flight, hotel, rental car)
Cost to ferry the plane home
Aircraft sales tax
Aircraft registration
A canopy cover
Safety wire tools
Oil
Fuel
Unexpected Mx items (they happen and you need to be ready for them)
Tiedown/Hangar
Insurance
Tires
New lightbulbs as old ones burn out
old avionics need maintenance
Nylon rope to tie the plane down
I just spent $60 on new anti-chafe tape for the cowling

I'm fairly certain I'm now Aircraft Spruce's biggest customer :D.

It all adds up... and fast. These initial costs fade away as you own it for longer because many are one-time things, but you still gotta buy them. I wouldn't trade plane ownership for anything, but you have to be prepared for it financially and mentally. Even a 150 can run up a tab.

And if you're not ready for it, it can wipe you out financially and/or the plane is going to sit and rot and be worth nothing.
 
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James331 said:
Plenty lower engine time 150s kicking around for sub 20k

Also if you're paying 20k to overhaul a 0-200, well I wish I knew you back when I was a kid selling cars.
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Such as? If there are plenty you shouldn't have trouble posting some examples.

What would estimate for an overhaul?
 
donjohnston said:
Okay guys... The horse is dead. Can we move on now?
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Ben Sanford said:
I guess most of these aggressive responders here have never been in the service business or waited tables earlier in life. Sheesh
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Nope, been there. When I was 21, I was a dishwasher in a restaurant. It didn't pay enough to get an apartment, let alone get an airplane. I was grateful to live in "our" house with my parents. It wasn't until I got into the Navy that I started to understand that I needed to provide for myself independently. It was just a foreign thought...
 
Salty said:
I think the roadblocks you’re experiencing here are the same ones you’re experiencing in your career, relationships, etc. think about it.
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I thought about it. Won't know what you're talking about until you say it.
 
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