Rich Stowell Video

Holy crap. great post. Thanks!!
 
I've watched a number of videos by Rich and have his EMT book too. I even contacted him regarding going to Calif. to train with him but he directed me to Sam in El Paso (which is much closer of course) and that's how I've ended up getting the decathlon... Glad you posted it this as I was thinking about hammerheads and how they get botched last night. Wonder if the BEGGS recovery would work in the SD too.... I have done one inverted turn- feels pretty odd.
 
Wonder if the BEGGS recovery would work in the SD too.... I have done one inverted turn- feels pretty odd.

In his book, Gene Beggs mentioned the Super D (along with a few others) that did NOT recover certain spin modes using the hands-off and opposite rudder technique. It's worth picking up a copy ('Spins in the Pitts') even if you don't fly a Pitts.
 
In his book, Gene Beggs mentioned the Super D (along with a few others) that did NOT recover certain spin modes using the hands-off and opposite rudder technique. It's worth picking up a copy ('Spins in the Pitts') even if you don't fly a Pitts.

Actually in his book he refers to a 180 Decathlon that won't always recover but notes that he hasn't flown it or the 150 Decathlon extensively. He also mentions that the Beggs approach failure occurs in an inverted, left turn spin. And I'll second the motion to pick up a copy of this great book.

One of the problems with Beggs and also Stowell's PARE techniques is that they both require you to know which rudder to step on to recover. In a real upset with no experience, especially in inverted spins, how likely is it that you'll be mentally ahead enough to know which way you're spinning or even be looking in the right place to tell? Inverted spins can be especially disorienting and if you look in the wrong place, it'll look like you're spinning opposite of the direction you actually are.

Bill Finagin's emergency recovery solves that problem and has been shown to work in the aircraft that the Beggs method would not. It also has a great track record of recovering faster, or just as fast as using exactly the proper inputs but can be done when you're completely frozen mentally. There are a great many pilots from all over the world that can attest to the success of his upset recovery training.
 
Bill Finagin's emergency recovery solves that problem and has been shown to work in the aircraft that the Beggs method would not. It also has a great track record of recovering faster, or just as fast as using exactly the proper inputs but can be done when you're completely frozen mentally. There are a great many pilots from all over the world that can attest to the success of his upset recovery training.

...and that technique is....?
 
Actually in his book he refers to a 180 Decathlon that won't always recover but notes that he hasn't flown it or the 150 Decathlon extensively.

Right, the 180 is what makes it (not so) "Super". :smile:

...and that technique is....?

We could tell you, but maybe you should just make the short hop one day to Annapolis and fly with Bill. :smile: You'll be glad you did.
 
...and that technique is....?

1. power to idle
2. look inside the plane and visually center all the controls (rudder, aileron)

(at this point most of the excitement is over)

3. wait for airspeed to be greater than x (x in the Pitts is 100 mph)
4. recover to level flight and add power

The beauty of this technique is that it's quick to stop making things worse. Power on is usually bad and any deflected control is drag. You can be completely crappin' your pants, paralyzed mentally and still do these things with no concern for what the airplane is actually doing.

Pilots have spun airplanes into the ground holding the wrong rudder on the floor or being indecisive and pushing one and then the other when it didn't stop spinning fast enough. You can argue that any pilot worth their ticket should be able to tell which way they're spinning and at least step on the proper rudder pedal. But in an upset, you've already checked out mentally enough to get yourself into the upset to begin with and during the excitement of things going hinky is not a time when you're mentally going to speed up and get ahead of the action.

This is all pretty unimpressive to read about here on a forum and totally life changing, eye opening, good stuff when you go and actually experience it with him. There are folks on the left coast that think something this simple can't possibly work as well as their method, evidence to the contrary not withstanding. As with anything like this, seek out good instruction and try it for yourself up high in a suitable plane, seated on a parachute. Reading about it in a book or on a forum is no substitute for training.

And no, I'm not Bill.
 
Man, I really, REALLY need to get some upset & unusual attitude training.

Thanks for posting!
 
1. power to idle
2. look inside the plane and visually center all the controls (rudder, aileron)

(at this point most of the excitement is over)

3. wait for airspeed to be greater than x (x in the Pitts is 100 mph)
4. recover to level flight and add power

The beauty of this technique is that it's quick to stop making things worse. Power on is usually bad and any deflected control is drag. You can be completely crappin' your pants, paralyzed mentally and still do these things with no concern for what the airplane is actually doing.

Pilots have spun airplanes into the ground holding the wrong rudder on the floor or being indecisive and pushing one and then the other when it didn't stop spinning fast enough. You can argue that any pilot worth their ticket should be able to tell which way they're spinning and at least step on the proper rudder pedal. But in an upset, you've already checked out mentally enough to get yourself into the upset to begin with and during the excitement of things going hinky is not a time when you're mentally going to speed up and get ahead of the action.

This is all pretty unimpressive to read about here on a forum and totally life changing, eye opening, good stuff when you go and actually experience it with him. There are folks on the left coast that think something this simple can't possibly work as well as their method, evidence to the contrary not withstanding. As with anything like this, seek out good instruction and try it for yourself up high in a suitable plane, seated on a parachute. Reading about it in a book or on a forum is no substitute for training.

And no, I'm not Bill.

I've done spin training in a C172H -- cross controlled, inverted, the works.

I was taught the "which way is the world flowing?" rotation ID technique. But could see how in a non-training environment it would take a bit longer to figure out which way it was flowing.

Would this method you just described be universal -- applicable to any SEL GA airplane?
 
Would this method you just described be universal -- applicable to any SEL GA airplane?

I'm certainly not qualified to say that and I'm relative sure that Bill's not touting it as such. But it's hard to find any fault with it in any situation/airplane. It seems to be a reasonable set of actions to get all the power off and center the controls even if it's just to give you a bit more time to figure out what you're going to do next. The right answer is to do what's officially recommended for your airplane whether that's the POH or otherwise. I do know for certain that it works in Cessna 150/152 aircraft which Beggs describes as resistant to his technique.

IMO, the real value in training with any really good aerobatic upset/recovery instructor is in two areas: engraining some programming you can invoke when you're in that "surprised stupid" mode; and, gaining some experience in the sights and feeling of upsets so that the stupid mode is less likely to happen or last as long. I personally like Bill's technique because when I've botched a maneuver, I don't have to figure out first what the airplane is doing. I just know that it's not doing what I intended so I acknowledge that quickly and it's steps 1, 2, 3, 4 and I'm off to try it again.

Gene Beggs has a great description in his book on the visual references related to spins that illustrates the problem when inverted. There are three places you might be looking when spinning inverted and if you're looking in the wrong place you'll see the yaw in the opposite direction. He goes on to say that when a student botches an emergency recovery, it's invariably because they're looking in the wrong place or bracing so hard against the rudder pedals that they couldn't apply the proper input.

The book is called "Spins in the Pitts Special" but it's a great short read for anyone interested in more fully understanding spin recoveries. It's available from the EAA/IAC bookstore.

Also, Rich is a preeminent upset/spin instructor and any time spent with him would be a great experience also so please don't take any my remarks as poo pooing his teaching. The sport is definitely a better place for his contributions.
 
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I'm certainly not qualified to say that and I'm relative sure that Bill's not touting it as such. But it's hard to find any fault with it in any situation/airplane. It seems to be a reasonable set of actions to get all the power off and center the controls even if it's just to give you a bit more time to figure out what you're going to do next. The right answer is to do what's officially recommended for your airplane whether that's the POH or otherwise. I do know for certain that it works in Cessna 150/152 aircraft which Beggs describes as resistant to his technique.

IMO, the real value in training with any really good aerobatic upset/recovery instructor is in two areas: engraining some programming you can invoke when you're in that "surprised stupid" mode; and, gaining some experience in the sights and feeling of upsets so that the stupid mode is less likely to happen or last as long. I personally like Bill's technique because when I've botched a maneuver, I don't have to figure out first what the airplane is doing. I just know that it's not doing what I intended so I acknowledge that quickly and it's steps 1, 2, 3, 4 and I'm off to try it again.

Gene Beggs has a great description in his book on the visual references related to spins that illustrates the problem when inverted. There are three places you might be looking when spinning inverted and if you're looking in the wrong place you'll see the yaw in the opposite direction. He goes on to say that when a student botches an emergency recovery, it's invariably because they're looking in the wrong place or bracing so hard against the rudder pedals that they couldn't apply the proper input.

The book is called "Spins in the Pitts Special" but it's a great short read for anyone interested in more fully understanding spin recoveries. It's available from the EAA/IAC bookstore.

Also, Rich is a preeminent upset/spin instructor and any time spent with him would be a great experience also so please don't take any my remarks as poo pooing his teaching. The sport is definitely a better place for his contributions.

Very true, but many POHs simply state "This Aircraft Not Approved for Spins" -- so not much help there.

I thought PARE was the NASA answer, and Rich Stowell became associated with it as the "face" of spin recovery for GA (even though Bill Kershner was quite the spin guru as well).

Pardon my over-simplification, but it sounds like the Beggs method is to let the airplane recover on its own?
 
I've flown with Rich Stowell and he is a great instructor. He also speaks frequently around the area and his talks are very informative.

If you get the chance it's worth a trip to SoCal. He teaches out of Santa Paula (KSZP) and there is very little automobile traffic up there most of the time, although the airport can get busy.

Joe
 
Man, I really, REALLY need to get some upset & unusual attitude training.

Me too! I was unfamiliar with the BEGGS technique, it's described here:

http://www.ozaeros.net/spin/beard.htm

And, I'd never SEEN an inverted spin before, just heard about them. I've bookmarked Rich's video feed as a favorite. Can't wait for the next one!

Finally, I love this quote from the article above, as it pertains to spin practice:

The sky above is as useless as the runway behind.
 
I've done spin training in a C172H -- cross controlled, inverted, the works.

After the inverted spin in the 172, I assume you were able to get the engine restarted? :D

Pardon my over-simplification, but it sounds like the Beggs method is to let the airplane recover on its own?

No, Beggs is to use deliberate anti-spin rudder (which, as has been stated, requires you to acknowlege WHICH rudder to push) and let go of the stick. In an upright spin, letting go of the stick will cause the airflow over the elevator to deflect the control surface to full up (even if you have pushed forward) until the opposite rudder slows the rotation enough for the plane to begin flying again. The stick will pop forward to neutral on its own. Pretty wild if you've never watched it happen.

Also, as has been stated, the method Finagin teaches doesn't require you to recognize the spin direction, whether it's upright/inverted, or much of anything other than the fact that you are out of control. That has its advantages. However, I'm not sure he makes any guarantees about this technique in anything but the Pitts, though it seems it would work in many different aircraft.
 
Hi Everyone,

Please bear in mind here that the video posted on my YouTube channel is specific to the Pitts and must not be extrapolated to other airplanes. The video was done to complement an article written for the May Safety Issue of "Sport Aerobatics" magazine (published by the IAC). The article provides a lot of information necessary to understand what is happening in the video. Once the article has been published, a PDF of it will be available on my website as well.

Anyone interested in reading a two-part article I wrote in 2007 for Aviation Safety magazine regarding unusual attitude recovery techniques should also see http://www.richstowell.com/documents/Aviation_Safety_JunJul2007.pdf

The bottom line is that NO recovery technique can be claimed to be infallible or applicable to all airplanes in all situations. However, certain techniques do have much broader applicability than others, and the context in which a particular technique is being applied must be understood and appreciated.

Regarding the current discussion about the Neutral Recovery Controls technique vis-a-vis the Pitts video, it is also important to keep in mind that the spins were entered from simulated botched pivots during hammerheads. In this context, the rudder position is not an unknown -- it has been fully applied to the left by the pilot, as it would be in actual scenarios of this type.

From this standpoint, a pilot applying Neutral Recovery Controls (NRC) in the Pitts would be required to push right rudder to neutralize the pedals. The pilot applying NRC in this case would have to assess which way to move the rudder to accomplish this specific task no differently from the pilot wishing to apply full opposite rudder a-la Beggs or PARE. There is absolutely no difference in terms of correctly assessing what to do with the rudder.

The difference of course is only in how far to move the rudder to the right -- only to neutral using NRC vs. fully to the right using Beggs and NASA Standard/PARE. Since the pilot must actively do something with the right rudder in any case, why not go fully against instead of just half way? The airplane will recover quicker with all of the rudder opposing the rotation. Again, the rudder position is not an unknown, and regardless of the technique being employed, the pilot must have the wherewithal to make a right rudder input.

To assume that NRC does not require correct assessment and precise application of controls (just like the other techniques) may be an oversimplification. And in the majority of cases where the accidental spins are driven by an overuse/over-application of rudder, the pilot must still move the rudder in the direction of opposite rudder as part of the recovery scheme, NRC or not.

Rich
 
The bottom line is that NO recovery technique can be claimed to be infallible or applicable to all airplanes in all situations. However, certain techniques do have much broader applicability than others, and the context in which a particular technique is being applied must be understood and appreciated.

Hi Rich, great video and thanks for making it publicly available. I completely agree with the statement above and I think it was my own personal experience and assertion that, what I think you're calling the NRC technique, is a bit more broadly applicable in an upset situation because it doesn't require the pilot to get back mentally in the game before making configuration changes that will pretty universally be good (power off and neutralize). As Gene Beggs mentions in his book, and I'm sure you've seen in countless lessons with students, there's a natural tendency to brace hard on the rudder pedals for some period of time - an indication of the brain freeze that might inhibit more proactive and proper inputs.

When starting out in aerobatics out exploring my own personal limits, there were times when a botched maneuver left me momentarily stupified. But with this technique engrained, in the blink of an eye I could have the power off and controls neutral, and I found that very often that was the only input required to recover. What might I have been doing with the controls otherwise for the indeterminate time spent mentally catching up and figuring out which rudder to press?

I'm sure there's a bit of the first learned/primacy issue here at play with me having studied with Bill first starting out in aerobatics training with him. Speaking not as an experienced instructor or accomplished acro driver, but as a student of the sport that's spent the last several years in a Pitts on the steep learning curve, I remain convinced that the upset recovery technique that Bill teaches is more useful and safer for a novice wanting to become upset proof than having learned PARE or Beggs.
 
Hi Rich, great video and thanks for making it publicly available.

You're welcome! I've wanted to present these scenarios for a while now.

I completely agree with the statement above and I think it was my own personal experience and assertion that, what I think you're calling the NRC technique, is a bit more broadly applicable in an upset situation because it doesn't require the pilot to get back mentally in the game before making configuration changes that will pretty universally be good (power off and neutralize). As Gene Beggs mentions in his book, and I'm sure you've seen in countless lessons with students, there's a natural tendency to brace hard on the rudder pedals for some period of time - an indication of the brain freeze that might inhibit more proactive and proper inputs.

When starting out in aerobatics out exploring my own personal limits, there were times when a botched maneuver left me momentarily stupified. But with this technique engrained, in the blink of an eye I could have the power off and controls neutral, and I found that very often that was the only input required to recover. What might I have been doing with the controls otherwise for the indeterminate time spent mentally catching up and figuring out which rudder to press?

I'm sure there's a bit of the first learned/primacy issue here at play with me having studied with Bill first starting out in aerobatics training with him. Speaking not as an experienced instructor or accomplished acro driver, but as a student of the sport that's spent the last several years in a Pitts on the steep learning curve, I remain convinced that the upset recovery technique that Bill teaches is more useful and safer for a novice wanting to become upset proof than having learned PARE or Beggs.

I have no problem with the teaching of useful techniques tailored to specific situations. The issue is that we have to be very careful in public forums like this to always discuss such techniques in the proper context; to avoid talking in general terms rather than remaining crystal clear about the conditions under which certain techniques may be applicable.

Notwithstanding the above, there is also an aspect of this discussion that is either unrealized, or that may be disregarded as trivial when it is actually absolutely crucial to the implementation of unusual attitude recovery actions, namely: the psychophysiology of human beings under stress in the cockpit of airplanes. There is nothing simple whatsoever about any of the recovery actions we're talking about from a human factors standpoint.

Pilots under the duress of an unusual attitude must be taught to supplant instincts with exacting control movements. Pilots whose brains truly have locked up, or who have otherwise become mentally incapacitated by an unusual attitude, will be incapable of implementing any recovery scheme whatsoever. Instinct will then take over, yet instinct will not result in the proper actions being taken (except perhaps by chance). Self-preservation reactions almost always are contrary to pro-recovery actions in an airplane.

For instance, when you trained with Bill, you undoubtedly had to:

  • Learn to override your natural instincts
  • Learn to ignore (or at least squelch) the visual drama and physical sensations of the unusual attitudes
  • Learn to remain (or regain) mental control over the situation
  • Learn to maintain an awareness of your body position relative to the positions of the controls
  • Learn to implement a specific, rehearsed, and mentally pre-programmed set of recovery actions
  • Learn to reduce the power to idle
  • Learn to precisely move ailerons and elevator from wherever they are to their neutral positions
  • Learn to move the rudder from wherever it is to its neutral position
  • Learn to recognize when the event is over to return to level flight

If the above were not true, no one would need any hands-on training; all we'd have to do is tell others "just do this!" But that's clearly not the case. We have to train the mind and body to deal with the abnormal situations. Moreover, none of the above elements will ever become instinctive; none of the above will be possible if the pilot becomes panicked (i.e., the brain becomes disengaged from what is happening). The conscious brain must always remain in charge of the body.

The above remains true whether the pilot is learning to implement NRC, or Beggs, or PARE in the Pitts because the underlying psychophysiological process is identical for all human beings. Given the above, it's debatable whether or not a particular viable technique is "easier" to implement than any of the alternatively viable techniques. When training for unusual attitudes, we are as much (or perhaps more) learning to cope while under the stress of unusual attitudes/emergencies as we are learning to apply a specific set of recovery actions.

In the case of the botched pivots during Hammerheads in the Pitts, it remains unclear what the difference is in terms of the physical action the pilot must take with the known rudder position at the time of departure from controlled flight. The pilot must cause the rudder to move from left to right whether applying NRC, Beggs, or PARE. With NRC, the pilot moves the rudder "opposite" and stops at neutral, whereas with Beggs and PARE the pilot moves the rudder "fully opposite." The pilot in any case must still be able to recognize which direction to move the rudder and then act accordingly -- the direction of movement is identical, only the magnitude differs.

What's not apparent in the Pitts video during the inverted spin scenario, but is in the article that will be published in May, is the reason why Beggs was chosen as the recovery technique for that particular scenario. When the Pitts finally does depart into that inverted spin, you experience an instantaneous whip of -2.5 to -3 g's into the first turn, and -4.5 g's in the second if allowed to go that far -- yes, it is THAT violent. This spin has by far the highest rate of rotation I've ever experienced in spins. In addition, there are many occasions where there are lateral g's imposed as well. Pilots are suddenly pushed up and away from the spin, thrust into their seatbelts and heads into the canopy. Headsets have been known to fly off as well. It is practically impossible not to pull the stick aft when that happens, aggravating the spin even further. Tactically speaking, it is difficult to perform a hands-on recovery of any type during this nasty spin. Luckily, Beggs remains effective in the Pitts and actually is the "simpler" technique given the unusually violent nature of the departure.

Rich
 
The old Conti 145 HP kept right on chugging -- never quit.

The inverted entry was after a full cross-control entry spin to the left -- level with nose high and lottsa yaw, then upside down -- :eek:

OK, I've just never heard of "inverted entry" (top of loop maybe?) unless you are doing a true inverted spin...which I'm sure you weren't in the 172, since that requires inverted fuel and oil, unless like I said, you just let engine quit due to fuel starvation. :smile:
 
OK, I've just never heard of "inverted entry" (top of loop maybe?) unless you are doing a true inverted spin...which I'm sure you weren't in the 172, since that requires inverted fuel and oil, unless like I said, you just let engine quit due to fuel starvation. :smile:


I'm no acro pilot -- I just know the bottom wing ended up on top and the top of the plexi was green while the bottom was blue...
 
The old Conti 145 HP kept right on chugging -- never quit.

The inverted entry was after a full cross-control entry spin to the left -- level with nose high and lottsa yaw, then upside down -- :eek:

I've done that entry where it drops a wing and rolls over nearly inverted to enter the spin, but the spin itself is a normal upright spin.

Is that what happened?

Tim
 
I've done that entry where it drops a wing and rolls over nearly inverted to enter the spin, but the spin itself is a normal upright spin.

Is that what happened?

Tim


Umm....

::thinking::

...once the spin was established, we were pointed down.

In entering the spin, we were inverted.
 
Acro's waaaaaay too complicated... :D

I don't think it's that complicated but it is pretty unusual and maybe counter-intuitive to some of our basic instincts; hence, confusing without the training. If pilots reading these kinds of threads get nothing else from it but how valuable it is to get any good quality upset training then that's a good thing. Aerobatic upset/recovery and spin training for the normal pilot is alot about revealing all that stuff you didn't know that you didn't know :)

The points made about the mental game is underscored by the last couple of posts in that without the training/experience building that happens when you get some quality upset/recovery/spin training, it's easy to look in the wrong place or be confused about what the airplane is doing. A normal upright spin can look like it's tucking under if you tilt your head back and look at the ground. You can also cross over a normal upright spin into an inverted spin entry with too quick, over amped forward stick and opposite rudder which is something you won't do if you use Finagin's method of neutral controls.

With NRC, the pilot moves the rudder "opposite" and stops at neutral, whereas with Beggs and PARE the pilot moves the rudder "fully opposite." The pilot in any case must still be able to recognize which direction to move the rudder and then act accordingly -- the direction of movement is identical, only the magnitude differs.

It can be precisely the magnitude that get's the pilot in trouble as in the case of the cross-over spin. That first time, or unanticipated cross-over is a pretty overwhelming thing and it would be easy to get stupid and convince yourself that "Hey, I'm squashing the opposite rudder and everything's gone crazy!"

Rich, I'm pretty sure I'm not going to affect your opinion about PARE vs. Finagin's method and I'm sure the reverse is true as well. To everyone else, just go and get the training from an experienced instructor in a well maintained plane designed for this stuff and you'll never regret that you did.
 
It can be precisely the magnitude that get's the pilot in trouble as in the case of the cross-over spin. That first time, or unanticipated cross-over is a pretty overwhelming thing and it would be easy to get stupid and convince yourself that "Hey, I'm squashing the opposite rudder and everything's gone crazy!"

Crossover at 2 minutes into this one (I've posted this link before) http://www.youtube.com/user/T123TK#p/u/2/UiEMVFV3BWY

Also, shows what happens if you shove the stick forward, try to use aileron, etc.
 
Hi All - This is a very interesting discussion on spins. In developed spins, the entry attitude is often representative of the resulting spin attitude, however, entering an upright spin from inverted or vice versa is a straight forward process albeit uncomfortable. Generally speaking, irrespective of the entry attitude (upright or inverted), a positive angle of attack sustained stall (ie. the pilot is pulling and holding the control column aft in the cockpit) with sufficient uncorrected yaw and it will eventually end up in an upright spin. Similarly, a negative angle of attack sustained stall (ie. the pilot is pushing and holding the stick forward in the cockpit) with sufficient uncorrected yaw will end up in an inverted spin.

Lots of fun but certainly a brain scrambler the first few times you try it. Of course, these types of spins should only be done in an aerobatic airplane with a qualified instructor unless you have lots of recent spin entry and recovery experience in the specific type of airplane you're in.
 
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