James_Dean
Pattern Altitude
Simple. Nobody ever got wealthy working for somebody else.
Rich mans game
- Thread starter evapilotaz
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Simple. Nobody ever got wealthy working for somebody else.
PaulS
Touchdown! Greaser!
This, and don't be a *****.
James_Dean
Pattern Altitude
James,
"Cheaper by the dozen" comes to mind, and given your occupation I think it's appropriate. Pardon the intended pun.
Except my wife is the coach. I'm just a lowly official.
RudyP
Cleared for Takeoff
Well... I get what you mean and there's some truth to it but tell that to the 2nd through 10th employees of some of the biggest success story companies out there... You know, the Steve Ballmer ($28B net worth) types of the world...
I dont have stats but I can tell you there are a lot of people in the >$10M net worth range in this country who work for someone else. Weather that is 'wealthy' or not is certainly debatable.
That all being said, this country is by far the best environment for a the single small business entrepreneur to build wealth from nothing within a generation at this point in history.
James_Dean
Pattern Altitude
Let me rephrase. Nobody ever got wealthy who didn't have equity. We all work for somebody else, might be the boss, the CEO, the Board, or the Shareholders, etc, but those who get a chunk had equity.
FormerHangie
En-Route
Get ownership or control. If you are working for wages, well, real wages have barely budged in a generation.
How do you get ownership or control? It very much helps to be intimately connected to someone already in that position. Of all the people who I went to high school with, the ones that are at least moderately wealthy are either part of the family business or were able to springboard off of part of it. The rest of us are wage earners, many are upper middle class.
I respectfully disagree.
denverpilot
Tied Down
Spends lots less than you make.
James_Dean
Pattern Altitude
Example? Remember that rich does not equal wealthy.
FormerHangie
En-Route
I'm gonna go back to the eggs thing for a minute. I can sorta get where that researcher thought that consuming dietary cholesterol might cause an increase in serum cholesterol, but until research proves it, it's an unproven hypothesis, and more current research indicates that eggs are just fine to eat. http://www.bmj.com/content/346/bmj.e8539.full
When all this shakes out, what I think we're going to find is that you can eat pretty much anything nutritive that's close to its natural form, like eggs, meat, fish, fruit, and vegetables. I suspect that whole grains are ok too, although grains tend to put weight on a lot of people. The big no-nos are going to be highly processed foods and refined carbohydrates, particularly sugar. I read once that you should do your shopping in the perimeter of the grocery store. I tried that one, came back with fresh fruit, raw vegetables, lean meats, and ice cream.
When all this shakes out, what I think we're going to find is that you can eat pretty much anything nutritive that's close to its natural form, like eggs, meat, fish, fruit, and vegetables. I suspect that whole grains are ok too, although grains tend to put weight on a lot of people. The big no-nos are going to be highly processed foods and refined carbohydrates, particularly sugar. I read once that you should do your shopping in the perimeter of the grocery store. I tried that one, came back with fresh fruit, raw vegetables, lean meats, and ice cream.
denverpilot
Tied Down
NFL players. Just as an obvious one.
There are "jobs" out there that are employee relationships where one can become wealthy.
Decent investments can also do it. I know at least one person who went from solidly middle class to wealthy by owning far too much AOL stock for "diversification" back in the day.
He then plowed the money earned in the stock into a business he wanted to create to sell very high end products for a niche market, and enjoyed working really hard on it, and made himself even wealthier.
He owns EarthRoamer.com now. Bill did great. He built the first prototype in front of his one car detached garage in our condo complex. The pickup truck wouldn't even fit in the garage. He was just a middle of the road engineer at Qwest when we met him. His investments changed his life forever.
James_Dean
Pattern Altitude
My definition is a number that you would need in liquid assets to say "I'm out" and maintain your current lifestyle until age 80.
FormerHangie
En-Route
I've done the calculations, and come to the conclusion that the average upper middle income wage earner can't save him or herself to the point of being wealthy, it will take an extraordinary event for that to happen.
I read somewhere where someone had done a survey of wealthy people, and had asked what the minimum net worth was to be considered wealthy. Once the answers were averaged, the amount came to $8 million. If you saved $10,000 a year and invested it at something that returned 8 percent, at the end of 40 years, you'd have $2.7 million, but that's not allowing for taxes and inflation. After those two items, a more realistic figure would be four or five percent. Even at five percent, that figure would be $1.2 million, so you'd need to save $70,000 per year for 40 years to get to that $8 million figure. That's also assuming you never have a long term illness, your investments don't tank, and you never suffer a spate of unemployment. That's well beyond the ability of 90 percent of the households in this country. The example of your friend Bill is one of an extraordinary event, picking up AOL stock at the right time and getting rid of it before it became worthless.
If that's the only thing that you do then that's a relatively quick path to being poor.
FloridaPilot
Pattern Altitude
It isn't easy to rise to that level because if it were EVERYONE would have it, how bad a person wants it is the question. When you see a successful person on T.V. you rarely hear about the sacrifice it took to get there. That is because nobody wants to hear that, they only want to hear about........doing it with less effort, (Look at the next line)
Of all of the wealthy people that I have spoken to, the key to wealth, (If that is what you want to call it) is buying assets with the money you do have. The problem with the lower class is they buy, Houses, Cars...and Sadly airplanes, Which I love. The wealthy buy assets first and THEN use the income from those assets to buy the house, car and airplane not sell the asset but use the income that the asset is producing. The lower classes buy stuff FIRST and then with what is left...(if there is any money left over) buy assets. Save your money to invest, NOT for a rainy day inflation will eat your savings.....You think stuff is expensive now? lol!!!
denverpilot
Tied Down
Liquid or able to be liquified over time? Liquid is a pretty tall order. But many "non-liquid" assets can be planned to be sold over time if you're not leaving an estate to someone. It also depends a lot on what you think your needs vs wants are. If you "need" $100/plate dinners or $10,000 one week vacations you're going to need a lot more stuff to sell than if you "need" some home BBQ'd burgers and a six pack of Miller Light to be happy. LOL.
Obviously. But it's the number one mistake the vast majority make in life within the realm of personal finance. No savings.
I met a nice young man yesterday who is kicking tires on his first airplane purchase. He stopped by the hangar to look at ours because we met him online and said we really don't have any pressing need to add another co-owner but he's local and looking at 182s, so come on over.
I hope I didn't cringe too hard when he said he was planning to take out a home equity loan for the purchase price of 1/3 of ours. And he's shopping others as a single-owner.
Unless I misunderstood, that's going to be a very tenuous capital position to be in.
He probably thought the old guy with grey hair who showed up in a 17 year old beater car and a maroon pocket t-shirt and Walmart $9 jeans and Sketcher tennis shoes looked a little beneath the "lifestyle" he wanted to be associated with. Don't know. Don't care either really. Been there, done that, on the expensive clothes and new cars and all that stuff... slightly younger than he did. Then got over it.
He said if he could swing it he'd buy a Cirrus or a Bonanza instead of a 182.
He redeemed himself a little bit saying he put himself through engineering school as a long-haul trucker though. @flyingcheesehead may grin at that. He's busting his butt at a large construction firm. A nice jump up.
Not a bad guy at all. Nice guy even. He's just willing to finance things and run more risk than I would. Airplanes can always need new engines tomorrow. And they're toys unless you're using them for business.
He said he had a lot of other airplanes to look at. That's cool. I remember when I was looking around and that initial airplane purchase is a whole lot of fun. Then I stumbled into my co-ownership and it's been nearly the perfect fit for a long time now.
CC268
Final Approach
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CC268
I love listening to Dave Ramsey and all the people who call in. Amazing what percentage of people live way over their means. Live paycheck to paycheck with little to no savings (I have a lot of college friends with a lot of cool toys and absolutely no additional income for emergencies or any retirement fund). I think they are in for a rough awakening.
When I first got out of college (not long ago) I too often associated success and wealth with material things (cars, appearance, etc). What I found is most of the "millionaires" were driving beaters and were extemely frugal while the ones driving the new luxury car were the poor ones. They did a survey here in Scottsdale not long ago. I can't remember the exact numbers but a huge percentage of those driving high end luxury cars had an annual income of less than 50,000 and were driving 50-70k cars. I got a kick out of that one.
Obviously that narrative isn't always true. There is the small percentage that really can support that sort of lifestyle, but I think it's far less than most people think. There are a lot of "posers" out there living way above their pay grade.
When I first got out of college (not long ago) I too often associated success and wealth with material things (cars, appearance, etc). What I found is most of the "millionaires" were driving beaters and were extemely frugal while the ones driving the new luxury car were the poor ones. They did a survey here in Scottsdale not long ago. I can't remember the exact numbers but a huge percentage of those driving high end luxury cars had an annual income of less than 50,000 and were driving 50-70k cars. I got a kick out of that one.
Obviously that narrative isn't always true. There is the small percentage that really can support that sort of lifestyle, but I think it's far less than most people think. There are a lot of "posers" out there living way above their pay grade.
What about the guy that saves nothing and pours everything he makes back into the growing business that he is building? If you've got the talent and willingness and know how to manage your risk, deploying your capital is better than saving it.
denverpilot
Tied Down
Sure. That works too if the business is sellable at the end or it provides a better than average salary and bennies. Many small businesses don't pay the owner much in salary since that makes it taxable. Different strategies for different businesses.
That's great if your business turns out to be a success. Many businesses barely break even and disappear after a while.
Plenty of people make it to 'eff it money' by working for someone else. Just depends what level of success you see in your career and whether you can control your lifestyle expenses. Our friend further up who makes a mil could make it to 'eff it money status' in a few years if he wasn't shackled to the trappings of the Manhattan millionaire lifestyle.
paflyer
Final Approach
The federal tax code is specifically designed to limit the accumulation of wealth.
"Whether you think you can or think you can't, you're right" -- Henry Ford
James_Dean
Pattern Altitude
I'm gonna go back to the eggs thing for a minute. I can sorta get where that researcher thought that consuming dietary cholesterol might cause an increase in serum cholesterol, but until research proves it, it's an unproven hypothesis, and more current research indicates that eggs are just fine to eat. http://www.bmj.com/content/346/bmj.e8539.full
When all this shakes out, what I think we're going to find is that you can eat pretty much anything nutritive that's close to its natural form, like eggs, meat, fish, fruit, and vegetables. I suspect that whole grains are ok too, although grains tend to put weight on a lot of people. The big no-nos are going to be highly processed foods and refined carbohydrates, particularly sugar. I read once that you should do your shopping in the perimeter of the grocery store. I tried that one, came back with fresh fruit, raw vegetables, lean meats, and ice cream.
My anecdotal story. I've been overweight my entire life reaching a high of 325 lbs during the AI crisis in 2015. Last year I decided to change things up - turning 40 and all. I've been doing low carb/keto, working out with heavy weights and a bit of cardio, and not really restricting calories or even counting calories. I had bacon and cheese on a chicken breast for breakfast. I just had a physical yesterday(unfortunately for a rotator cuff issue) and I've lost 45 lbs, resting pulse was 56(down 12), BP was 124/78(down 10 each), and my cholesterol and ratios were great. I am convinced that refined sugar and particularly fructose when eaten beyond low levels are bad for me and my health.
N747JB
Final Approach
My dad always says, it's just as easy to love a rich one as a poor one!Find a rich woman?
mkosmo
Pattern Altitude
I think the natural part will turn out to be unnecessary, too. We've been processing food for longer than we've been on this continent... and lots of native people all over the globe eat grains as their staple without concern.I'm gonna go back to the eggs thing for a minute. I can sorta get where that researcher thought that consuming dietary cholesterol might cause an increase in serum cholesterol, but until research proves it, it's an unproven hypothesis, and more current research indicates that eggs are just fine to eat. http://www.bmj.com/content/346/bmj.e8539.full
When all this shakes out, what I think we're going to find is that you can eat pretty much anything nutritive that's close to its natural form, like eggs, meat, fish, fruit, and vegetables. I suspect that whole grains are ok too, although grains tend to put weight on a lot of people. The big no-nos are going to be highly processed foods and refined carbohydrates, particularly sugar. I read once that you should do your shopping in the perimeter of the grocery store. I tried that one, came back with fresh fruit, raw vegetables, lean meats, and ice cream.
paflyer
Final Approach
I used a HELOC to buy my airplane. Cheapest money you can get, you preserve your capital, you might be able to deduct the (small) interest.
Of course, the monthly payment wasn't a stretch, in fact I could have paid it off at any time. I think it was 20 yr amortization, aggressively paid it off in a few years.
paflyer
Final Approach
When I was a kid, we drank Cokes constantly. There were, maybe, two "fat" kids in the whole class.
My theory is that switching away from pure cane sugar and going to substitute fats caused the current obesity epidemic.
paflyer
Final Approach
Sure, just work for a government entity. Get a fat pension at 50-- you may or may not have "wealth" but you are rich, courtesy of the taxpayers.
N747JB
Final Approach
I'm in the same boat, a little higher starting weight and down 55 lbs since February 1, without much exercise, it's all about what you eat, getting rid of bread and fried foods was the biggest help. I am sort of at a plateau right now, not gaining, not losing, but it's summer and I do like beer when I fish!
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jsstevens
But how big were the Cokes? 12 oz? (The big switch from 10oz to 12oz Cokes happened while I was a kid.) Now it's Super Big Gulp (64oz! That's a half a gallon!)
Or that. Preferably in California or one of the northeast urban areas. Then double-dip and work another 10 years for another government entity. With your existing pension, you can shovel every penny you make into either further savings or the fun account.
FloridaPilot
Pattern Altitude
Rich = Playing for a pro team
Wealthy = Owning a pro team
Both are totally different mentalities. One is shorter term thinking and the other is longer term thinking.
Wealthy = Owning a pro team
Both are totally different mentalities. One is shorter term thinking and the other is longer term thinking.
paflyer
Final Approach
Yeah, I screwed up royally by going to college and working in the private sector. Friend from high school went into the cops (NYPD) and he's been retired for years. We just had our 40th HS reunion.
In NYC metro, most retired teachers and cops move to the east coast of FL or NC, low/no taxes. They don't even redistribute their pension largess in the communities that are paying it.
paflyer
Final Approach
Obama define millionaires and billionaires as people earning $250K +.
Anthony
Touchdown! Greaser!
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Anthony
I hear ya. Out of grad school I worked in state government in Economic Development work. My salary wasn't that great, but the benefits, vacation, and sick time were. Also, I was able to travel internationally on business. Did that for about five years. But, I just had to get into the private sector to make what I thought were big bucks. My friends that stayed with the state are all retired now with salary, and full benefits.
As a cop he actually had to work for his money and there was some risk involved. If you work your way up to 'assistant deputy commissioner of Jello safety and intercultural transfer' and you get the same salary without those risks.
I have (had) family on Long Island. As Seinfeld put it: 'you HAVE to move to Florida, it's the law'. The reasons are simple. You can pay 25k in property tax on your 3 bedroom saltbox in Suffolk county or you can sell and live off the appreciation in Alabama or FL. And you have to sell when you leave as you need the primary residence exemption for the capital gains on the house.
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I had the chance to join TVA in nuclear operations 15 years ago, but didn't because of the initially lower salary. In hindsight, I should have jumped all over it. Oh well, coulda shoulda woulda....
Looping back to the OP of the thread: No, I don't think GA is a 'rich mans game'. In my case, a partnership is the tool to keep expenses under control. None of my partners is 'rich' or 'wealthy', we all have to work for our money. By sharing fixed expenses and capital, all 5 of us have access to a nice plane while based in a high cost location.
paflyer
Final Approach
And the reason that taxes are 25K is to pay for the pensions of the bastages who take the money and run.