Retirement: inside or outside the USA?

Bill Jennings said:
I live in a smaller southern city, and we have two top notch hospitals in the area. My cardiologist did his undergrad at Princeton, med school at Harvard Med, internship at Mass Gen, and cardio fellowship at Johns Hopkins. I'm quite satisfied with his education, qualifications and care.
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Besides, medical expertise is only a google search away! :D


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Due to my wife, going out of country isn’t an option. Been working her to consider outside Florida for 3 years and that still ain’t flying yet. Even if I were single, I wouldn’t leave permanently. I’d probably spend a few years here and there, but I’d end up somewhere in the US.
 
I'm in a weird (to me) situation. I could retire to the Highlands of Guatemala tomorrow. Couldn't fly, but could boat the waters and ride twisty mountain roads like a fiend. I've never been very sick, so I'm not that worried about medical care. They have basic stuff, you pay in cash and it's cheap. I have people, and could easily find a place to stay.

Mrs. Steingar would never go for this. She needs quite a bit of medical attention and always has. She could never live in a 3rd world place like that. So I stay. I may never retire, we'll see.
 
If I am married, probably TN. NC. SC area. If i am not, someplace outside the US. I dont know where, but the lower cost of living and slower pace sound good right now. I havent visited the top places ex-pats go, so I may be romanticizing things.
 
Tom-D said:
I my 80 years I've been there and done most everywhere, I'll would take the Good old US any day.
the decision is,, where ?
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I hear that the Pacific northwest is nice ...
 
The people and things that are important to us are where I am now and will likely remain.
 
Flyover country has been pretty good to me for a long time. Some part of me would like to be an expat somewhere in the world, but the rest of me figures I'd miss this place too much. It would be different, I think, if I had a reason to leave the US; like a job transfer or some other life event. But for me to just up and leave because "why not?", I don't think that would work out well for me.
 
LongRoadBob said:
I’m nearing retirement and have been living in Norway for decades. One thing to consider, the fluctuating exchange rates will I think play into it. The Norwegian kroner goes up and down against the dollar and I assume my retirement soc. security payments will be in USD. I don’t know yet how they pay one outside the US, if it is direct deposit or a check. If a check, which I believe it will be, you need to have a bank that will cash checks from another country without huge delays. Also I have set up a USD account. Which means I can put USD into it, and convert when I think the rate is decent, so if kroner falls for a while against USD I can sit on it, but USD accounts have little to no interest, so it’s a toss up between losing money to inflation or not earning what I could against exchange rate.

There is also the matter of income tax, and required each year, even though you owe no taxes to the US to both file income tax, which is very complicated and costs me around $600 per year to have experts do it, and have to file online for every bank account you have and how much money is in each as well as the highest amount that has been in the account for the year (supposedly to fight money laundering and tax evasion).

I have to also file income tax in Norway, so it really is a PITA that costs both time and money.
Last I heard the US and Eritrea are the only countries that demand expatriates file income tax, when they are being taxed in the county they are living in.

just some other practical aspects that you might need to consider.
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If you renounce your citizenship, you would only have to pay Norwegian taxes. Oh but the you would lose the SS payments. Can’t have it both ways. But that doesn’t stop you from complaining about how America is unfairly treating you.
 
Morgan3820 said:
If you renounce your citizenship, you would only have to pay Norwegian taxes. Oh but the you would lose the SS payments. Can’t have it both ways. But that doesn’t stop you from complaining about how America is unfairly treating you.
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Yes. It is the absolute right of every American to complain about his country, a right that is not available in certain other countries.
 
There were some who decided to make political comments in this thread. They have been deleted. We realize that people sometimes decide on places to live based on politics, but this is not the place to discuss those issues.
 
Crashnburn said:
I’d prefer a red state. I live in a deep blue state (California),taxes are outrageous, and will get worse long before they’ll get better. The states that made my short list are:NV, CO, AZ, and maybe ID. I’ve heard there is radiation in the ID’s aquifer and it makes the crops radioactive. I haven’t a clue how to assess the veracity of that claim.
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The CO state house and senate and governor are all currently blue team members. Clean sweep.

You’ll probably want to scratch it off your list.

The six million transplants that moved to the Denver metro are “All hat and no cattle” in our housing market, in debt above their eyeballs, and they outvote the rest of real Colorado.

Their “needs” will be quite high until they pack up and leave in the next recession.

They complained that two school districts didn’t close on a 6” snow day last week. I was amazed any of them closed.

They’re quite soft. Not exactly the sort of folk who know how to change a tire, if you know what I mean.

We got as far out of the rat colony as we could while keeping Karen’s long term ties to her quartet and chorus. The bass in her quartet drives down from Fairplay now, they wanted out of the Front Range so badly in semi-retirement.

If you choose CO, avoid the Front Range. But know if you do that the rat colony will be needing more tax money from you for many years to come.

The main driver (pun intended) will be CDOT who wants so badly to be CalTrans they probably sniff a pair of CalTrans dirty underwear they bought on EBay. The CDOT PR lady wears her reflective shiny and perfectly clean CDOT branded personal protective gear in parking lots for the TV cameras. It’s never seen a roadside or any dirt. LOL. Looks spiffy on TV, though! :)

My great uncle who’s long dead and drove snowplows in the mountains for them for three decades would get a hearty laugh out of their TV PR silliness today.

It snowed 3” yesterday and it took my co-worker an hour and a half to go 20 miles across the city. 50 Shades of Los Angeles. Haha. They don’t have anywhere to put more roads.

Cow town not recommended. Anywhere else sure, but expect Denver to suck away your money. Just how it’s going to be until it busts again. :)

Also don’t expect to see two of our major league sports teams on TV. Kronke and Ergen are cat fighting again. We can teach you all about them, and the useless Monforts running the Rockies, and catch you up on the Bowlan kids destroying the Broncos against his wishes... if you decide to join us.

At least you can catch the games on radio in the traffic jams. LOL.
 
I'm young (32), so if I had the money to retire now, my biggest concern would be healthcare.

In 2018, the average monthly premium for single coverage healthcare was $393 with an average deductible of 4328. Or max out of pocket cost of $754 per month. That is more expensive than my rent.

Unless I was rather wealthy (this plan would assume that I am retiring with no more than my current income), I would leave the country and possibly come back when I am eligible for medicare.

I would look very hard at the Caribbean, but I would also consider a few countries in South America. I would not worry too much about flying in those areas because I don't see a need to cut ties with the US completely, I would just keep my aircraft US registered and offer my IA a free Vacation when he came down for my annual. The more difficult concern would be phase one flight testing on a homebuilt, because what's the point of being retired if I can't build my own airplane? But then again, there are build assist centers in the US that I am sure would be willing to help.
 
Matthew said:
Flyover country has been pretty good to me for a long time. Some part of me would like to be an expat somewhere in the world, but the rest of me figures I'd miss this place too much. It would be different, I think, if I had a reason to leave the US; like a job transfer or some other life event. But for me to just up and leave because "why not?", I don't think that would work out well for me.
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Just moving for the sake of moving I agree doesn't make much sense. It's a question of what you're looking for (if anything) that you can't find where you are.

For me, mountains. I miss turns in the roads and up/down twistys. In PA we used those every day and enjoyed them.
 
The irony is that there are plenty of europeans who maintain a place in the US and spend whatever time they can* here because the US is an attractive place to be a retiree. I guess the grass is always greener on the other side of the fence.




*Typically limited by immigration status USCIS/DOS rules.
 
MarkH said:
In 2018, the average monthly premium for single coverage healthcare was $393 with an average deductible of 4328. Or max out of pocket cost of $754 per month. That is more expensive than my rent.
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That’s one of the reasons we gave up health insurance.
 
I looked at moving out of country in the mid 80s. I looked at Australia, Canada and Argentina.

Australia said no jobs for our citizens so we don't need you. Canada said come on but leave your guns and bring your money as we need it more than you do. Argentina said come on and bring your guns, we need them more than you do. So I decided to stay put.

If I was looking to leave the USA now I would look into Canada and Argentina.

Some people say home is where your heart is. I am more in line with those who say home is where you hang your hat.
 
There are expat communities all throughout Central and South America. I've visited some, the ones I saw seemed nice.
 
I met Rich Wellner @rwellner98 a couple years ago on North Fox Island in Michigan: Even though I don't think that he is truly retired, he spoke highly of the small community in Mexico, in which he is living in. Flying back and forth between Mexico and the USA in his Maule doesn't seem to be an issue.

A friend of ours moved from Michigan to an airpark in Tennessee to retire and loves it: Relatively low cost of living and 4 seasons with a still moderate climate.

My wife and I are still quite a few years away from retirement, currently the higher elevations of Arizona, like Flagstaff, are however high on our list. We might even want to move close to a rather touristy area and start an Airbnb as a retirement business.
 
Half Fast said:
I told my boss my retirement date is TBD: two bad days.

Today might be one of them.
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When I give my timeframe until retirement I couch it with, "but if work gets in the way of my wife and I traveling it will be sooner." :D
 
The only country I would consider for retirement outside of the U.S. is Japan. But they are stingy with residency, and they are specifically set against foreign retirees. I would need to marry in, which is challenging at this age (not to mention that I'm already married). With all that in mind, I see no exit but to hole up in east Tennessee.
 
I always thought Afghanistan would be an outdoor enthusiast's paradise if they could just get rid of all those annoying people...
 
IK04 said:
I always thought Afghanistan would be an outdoor enthusiast's paradise if they could just get rid of all those annoying people...
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It used to be. When I grew up, some of the 'old timers' who were young in the 60s , talked about going trekking and climbing there (and probably smoke weed). Back in those days you could drive to Afghanistan from mainland europe through Turkey and Iran.

Most of the people in that country would love to get rid of the strife and have a tourist industry. I hear that outside of the political/religious angle, they are very hospitable people.
 
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I've been reading a blog of a guy riding a bike throughout Pakistan. His photos are insane, the place is gorgeous. They do get some adventure type tourism, but not much. Afghanistan is even more so. A real pity things are as they are.
 
German guy said:
I met Rich Wellner @rwellner98 a couple years ago on North Fox Island in Michigan: Even though I don't think that he is truly retired, he spoke highly of the small community in Mexico, in which he is living in. Flying back and forth between Mexico and the USA in his Maule doesn't seem to be an issue.
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Yup! This is the thread for me. I've been in Mexico for nearly a decade now. Finishing a beach house that hopefully will serve as the basis of an income stream for my retirement.

Mexico is a great option for Americans because it's the same time zone as the midwest, and very, very easy to get back to the US for family, medical, or whatever. I mean, I'm sitting in rural Puerto Ángel now (http://tiny.cc/knkvjz) and could be back in Chicago (where I work) by EOD and in the office tomorrow morning if I needed to (it's 2pm as I write this).

The prices are still very affordable here. I have international health insurance that covers me globally (including the US) for $2500 / yr (or a bit less than a third of what it would cost me in the US). The quality of care is excellent here. And if, god forbid, I do get one of those diseases for which there is better treatment available in the US, I still have that option. But 1) there aren't very many diseases for which that is the case and 2) there are also some diseases for which Mexico is a better choice because a treatment is approved here, but not in the US.

My property taxes on 30+ acres on a bluff overlooking the pacific are about $8/yr. It's beautiful nearly every day. I can afford (because I'm not retired, I still work as a computer scientist) to have a full time majordomo who keeps the house, gardens and everything up to date, but also manages the subcontractors working on additional rental units.
 
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rwellner98 said:
I still work as a computer scientist) to have a full time majordomo who keeps the house, gardens and everything up to date, but also manages the subcontractors working on additional rental units.
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I've been a visitor to the Highlands of Guatemala because I have a brother who lives there. Insanely beautiful. He's the poor musician member of the family, and he has a majordomo. Same guy for 40 years. Don't known what my brother would do without him. So my poor brother is the only one in my family with a servant.

His wife has a really nice lake house across Lake Attitlan. It is a bit more like a palace, and will comfortably sleep 10. She runs it as a business, and it seems to make sufficient income to keep them going. Weekend rentals and vegan cooking classes mostly. She has a pair of young men who maintain the property. So for what she makes on occasional rentals she can employ two guys and has some left over.

There are drawbacks. She has had Dupuytren's Contracture, a genetic ailment that affects those of Scandinavian descent that results in fibrosis of the hand. Were she in the US she'd have been treated with injected collagenase, about week or two of recovery. In Guatemala they dug the stuff out of her hand surgically, recovery took a year. On the other hand my brother had a contracture of the hand with associated fibrosis. Wasn't Dupuytren's, the genetics are all wrong (the closest my family has come to Scandinavia is I owned a Nokia once). Had it been I'd have flown down there and administered collagenase myself. But there were people who could dig the stuff out of his hand, which is what they'd have done here. But the price was a fraction of what they'd have charged here.

I'd not want to deal with something life threatening or exotic there unless it was tropical. Then again, one can always board a jet and be back in los Estados Unitos quickly indeed. Mi suegra flies into Tijuana, the tickets are cheap. If you're retired Medicare will take care of you here. And like Rich said, insurance is cheap.

Do keep in mind I've a brother and a nephew there, so I have a support base. Moving somewhere in a foreign land where you know no-one is a frightening proposition. But in my experience ex pat communities are very tight.
 
I used to dream of retiring to Switzerland. No thanks. What a ridiculously expensive place. Still beautiful though.

And now having scratched my living abroad itch, I will stick to the US where I can do as I please and fly wherever. No idea where. Just trying to make it through the next day first.
 
Morgan3820 said:
If you renounce your citizenship, you would only have to pay Norwegian taxes. Oh but the you would lose the SS payments. Can’t have it both ways. But that doesn’t stop you from complaining about how America is unfairly treating you.
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I don’t think I would lose SS payments. At least as far as I understand it. I worked and paid in my whole working life in the US, and continued working in Norway. That isn’t negated if I’m not a citizen. So I think you are off the mark. And “treated unfairly” wasn’t the issue. I was pointing out a fact about how it works. Also that it is unusual.

note to add: I did just do a check, and I have it right. Renouncing citizenship would not mean loss of SS payments. Unless I lived in the designated “red zone” countries such as Khasikstan, etc, so I doubt anyone here is thinking of retiring there.
Also, depending on how much net worth if ones worth is over 2 million dollars, you may get hit with an exit tax (means liquidating all assets and then paying a percentage of that number. I seem to recall it was 15%).

These are all considerations for someone thinking about moving outside the US. Main thing is that there is cost associated and logistics about how to deal with fluctuating exchange rates, etc.
 
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LongRoadBob said:
I don’t think I would lose SS payments. At least as far as I understand it. I worked and paid in my whole working life in the US, and continued working in Norway. That isn’t negated if I’m not a citizen. So I think you are off the mark. And “treated unfairly” wasn’t the issue. I was pointing out a fact about how it works. Also that it is unusual.

note to add: I did just do a check, and I have it right. Renouncing citizenship would not mean loss of SS payments. Unless I lived in the designated “red zone” countries such as Khasikstan, etc, so I doubt anyone here is thinking of retiring there.
Also, depending on how much net worth if ones worth is over 2 million dollars, you may get hit with an exit tax (means liquidating all assets and then paying a percentage of that number. I seem to recall it was 15%).

These are all considerations for someone thinking about moving outside the US. Main thing is that there is cost associated and logistics about how to deal with fluctuating exchange rates, etc.
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You are correct. Goodie for you
 
BTW, if you don’t plan on learning the language, why bother living in another country? You’ll just be an extended tourist.
 
MarkH said:
I'm young (32), so if I had the money to retire now, my biggest concern would be healthcare.
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write-stuff said:
Heck, I'm trying to postpone it! I like what I do too much to quit early.
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That's pretty much how I feel. This May, I will have 34 years with the agency (state gov't), in my electrical career and could retire in Oct at age 55, with full pension. According to my union contract (IBEW), with the agency, it's 30yrs and 55yrs old, or 30 years with reduced pension if under 55.

Although I am in a good position to retire this year, I like what I do and I'm still in good health (people say I look like I'm in my late 30's, early 40's:D). So, I have no reason to want to go yet. However, we just settled a new contract a little over a year ago, which will force me to retire before the middle of 2022, if I want to continue my current healthcare/medical-dental plan. I would be grandfathered in ("legacy plan"), with zero contributions from my pension benefits and with the current $5 co-pay for doctor appointments and Rx.

Things change quite a bit after that 2022 date with respect to plan employee contributions, Dr. office visits and Rx co-pays. It's their way of getting rid of the dinosaurs and hiring new ppl for less. Although I'm not technically 'forced' to retire, if I stay longer, I will pay more for healthcare when I do go.

As for where I'll end up...anywhere but NYC, lol. I'm originally from NJ and lived in the Poconos for a few years. Moved to NY and spent the last 15 miserable years in that NYC traffic, driving through Queens, Brooklyn and Manhattan to get to work! Sometimes over an hour and a half for what should take no more than 45 mins. Time to escape, lol.:D

I like NC and could see myself retiring there. All of my family is here in the US, which is one of the reasons (among others) I have no desire to settle in another country.
 
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redtail said:
As for where I'll end up...anywhere but NYC, lol. I'm originally from NJ and lived in the Poconos for a few years. Moved to NY and spent the last 15 miserable years in that NYC traffic, driving through Queens, Brooklyn and Manhattan to get to work! Sometimes over an hour and a half for what should take no more than 45 mins. Time to escape, lol.:D
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That in itself is a reason to retire! We're leaving MD when we retire in 3 years and top 3 reasons. Traffic - Taxes - Out of control gerrymandering
 
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