Request for Airman Medical Records timing

R

recordrequester

Guest
I sent a Request for Airman Medical Records by fax about a month ago. Haven't heard anything, does anyone have recent experience with how long it generally takes?
 
A lonnnngg time. And the copy that you get is not the same as the AME copy, which is what the HIMS AMEs and HIMS psychiatrist and HIMS neuropscyhologist need. THEY need copies direct from the agency.

Their copies are placarded "do not share even with the airman who sough your assistance", so the content is NOT ABSOLUTELY the SAME.
 
Thanks! This request isn't for any AME but that's good to know. I will try to just forget about it and be surprised at some point in the future then.
 
bbchien said:
A lonnnngg time. And the copy that you get is not the same as the AME copy, which is what the HIMS AMEs and HIMS psychiatrist and HIMS neuropscyhologist need. THEY need copies direct from the agency.

Their copies are placarded "do not share even with the airman who sough your assistance", so the content is NOT ABSOLUTELY the SAME.
Click to expand...

Isn’t that nice, the government refusing to show you what information they have about you. I’m sure that’s not what the framers of the constitution had in mind!
 
recordrequester said:
I sent a Request for Airman Medical Records by fax about a month ago. Haven't heard anything, does anyone have recent experience with how long it generally takes?
Click to expand...

If by "recent" you accept late 2020, I sent my request by fax and 6 weeks out there was still no movement.

I called the RFS in Des Moines, WA, after those 6 weeks and mentioned that the HIMS Neuropsych was waiting on those records to file his report. The friendly lady at the RFS contacted OKC records who then put a "rush" on the records order. It went out just a few days later.
 
It took long enough when I requested mine several years ago that I made an e-mail inquiry. They apologized for the delay but said they had sent it out a few days earlier. Sure enough, they arrived shortly therafter.
 
bbchien said:
A lonnnngg time. And the copy that you get is not the same as the AME copy, which is what the HIMS AMEs and HIMS psychiatrist and HIMS neuropscyhologist need. THEY need copies direct from the agency.

Their copies are placarded "do not share even with the airman who sough your assistance", so the content is NOT ABSOLUTELY the SAME.
Click to expand...

What would happen if the airmen submitted a FOIA? That seems odd, thought a patient had a right to their medical records.
 
bbchien said:
But not a right to the internal (Inside FAA) consultant opinions.....
Click to expand...

What excuse do they give for that?

If it’s the airmen sending the FOIA, they are public servants, there is no national security issues or anything, I don’t see how they get away with that legally.
 
bflynn said:
Deliberative Process Privilege.
Click to expand...

“2. The Deliberative Process Privilege
The United States Government may withhold evidence in litigation in any of the following circumstances: (1) where a statute makes certain documents or information confidential; (2) where a privilege or objection is available to any other litigant under the Federal Rules of Civil Procedure (e.g., relevance, undue burden, attorney-client privilege); or (3) where a special privilege exists unique to the government (e.g., informer privilege, deliberative process privilege).”

Doesn’t this just apply to litigation? Does a airmen asking the government for their own medical records meet that requirement?
 
bbchien said:
But not a right to the internal (Inside FAA) consultant opinions.....
Click to expand...
Well, except for psychiatric items, they do. Of course, the FAA has never given a rat's rectum about obeying the privacy act. They violate it daily.
 
flyingron said:
Well, except for psychiatric items, they do. Of course, the FAA has never given a rat's rectum about obeying the privacy act. They violate it daily.
Click to expand...

Yes
Sadly they have a “What are you going to do about it” mindset.
 
Jackk said:
“2. The Deliberative Process Privilege
The United States Government may withhold evidence in litigation in any of the following circumstances: (1) where a statute makes certain documents or information confidential; (2) where a privilege or objection is available to any other litigant under the Federal Rules of Civil Procedure (e.g., relevance, undue burden, attorney-client privilege); or (3) where a special privilege exists unique to the government (e.g., informer privilege, deliberative process privilege).”

Doesn’t this just apply to litigation? Does a airmen asking the government for their own medical records meet that requirement?
Click to expand...

It does not. It also applies to the deliberation process used to reach decisions and applies to "prevent injury to the quality of agency decisions."

It's not well written IMHO, but this SCOTUS decision explains the logic. https://www.supremecourt.gov/DocketPDF/19/19-547/144037/20200521185300042_19-547tsUnitedStates.pdf
 
bflynn said:
It does not. It also applies to the deliberation process used to reach decisions and applies to "prevent injury to the quality of agency decisions."

It's not well written IMHO, but this SCOTUS decision explains the logic. https://www.supremecourt.gov/DocketPDF/19/19-547/144037/20200521185300042_19-547tsUnitedStates.pdf
Click to expand...


Prevent injury to the quality of agency decisions???

Who do they think they are kidding, does anyone actually still believe there is any quality to the FAAs decisions

But doesn’t HIPPA (the portability part) apply here, you have a right to your medical records, unless the FAA medical branch is going to finally just admit they have nothing to do with real medicine

I also don’t see how getting your own “medical records” would reasonably cause injury to whatever reputation FAA medicine has left.
 
It isn’t about hippa or their reputation, it’s about making sure their deliberations are not compromised.

argue with the Supreme Court of you wish. I’m just reporting.
 
bflynn said:
It isn’t about hippa or their reputation, it’s about making sure their deliberations are not compromised.

argue with the Supreme Court of you wish. I’m just reporting.
Click to expand...

I’m still not seeing where they are allowed, even by the nearly always pro state Supreme Court, to not release those records.

You mentioned something about litigation, but that doesn’t apply to just wanting to see the non classified, non contested papers your government is keeping on you.
 
I am not going to pretend I know because i could be completely wrong, but this is internal administrative stuff. The FAA is not diagnosing you with anything. They are simply putting their notes on what your doctor has already submitted. Thus, they really are not withholding medical records. They just have confidential policies.

I have seen this same rationale with doctors withholding data from neuropsychological evaluations. This however is part of your medical record, in my opinion. I would not pay/visit a doctor who tries to withhold that information.
 
Jackk said:
I’m still not seeing where they are allowed, even by the nearly always pro state Supreme Court, to not release those records.

You mentioned something about litigation, but that doesn’t apply to just wanting to see the non classified, non contested papers your government is keeping on you.
Click to expand...

I didn’t mention litigation. I explained it was not constrained to litigation.

The Court ruled that confidentiality of internal deliberations protects the integrity of those deliberations. From the SCOTUS case before -

If the privilege for agencies’ draft documents were made dependent on contin- gent events like whether the agency action under review was later modified, or whether staff members polished the drafts and made preparations to finalize them, then agency personnel could not have confidence that their draft analyses and recommendations would be protected, and some employees would likely be less candid as a result.
Click to expand...

Bold mine, this is the logic you might be missing.
 
bflynn said:
I didn’t mention litigation. I explained it was not constrained to litigation.

The Court ruled that confidentiality of internal deliberations protects the integrity of those deliberations. From the SCOTUS case before -



Bold mine, this is the logic you might be missing.
Click to expand...

But they are not elected, the FAA more or less answers to no one, they have flipped the finger to pilots and congress as well as privacy laws, yet I am to believe if they had to release their papers they keep on airmen that would force them to change? I was born at night, but not last night.
 
I don’t understand any point you’re trying to make. You’re saying they’re employees, but why is that relevant.
 
bflynn said:
I don’t understand any point you’re trying to make. You’re saying they’re employees, but why is that relevant.
Click to expand...

You don’t understand my point?

If that’s the case I think we might be too far apart for it to be worth discussion
 
When I took my Cogscreen I had to have records from OKC and I submitted the request around the middle of March and they finally got to the psychologist near the end of April so it takes a while.
 
Jackk said:
You don’t understand my point?

If that’s the case I think we might be too far apart for it to be worth discussion
Click to expand...
You asked what legal basis the FAA would have to deny a FOIA request for internal deliberations regarding an airman's medical files. bflynn identified the Deliberative Process Privilege, which is incorporated in FOIA Exemption 5. That's a position supported by the cited Supreme Court case. Now, if you want to argue that this privilege shouldn't exist, FOIA Exemption 5 shouldn't exist, or the Supreme Court got it wrong, that would seem to be a theoretical policy discussion different from the question of how can the FAA legally get away with not disclosing those records. Because the answer to that question is simply that they can get away with it because the law says they don't have to disclose those records.
 
Lindberg said:
You asked what legal basis the FAA would have to deny a FOIA request for internal deliberations regarding an airman's medical files. bflynn identified the Deliberative Process Privilege, which is incorporated in FOIA Exemption 5. That's a position supported by the cited Supreme Court case. Now, if you want to argue that this privilege shouldn't exist, FOIA Exemption 5 shouldn't exist, or the Supreme Court got it wrong, that would seem to be a theoretical policy discussion different from the question of how can the FAA legally get away with not disclosing those records. Because the answer to that question is simply that they can get away with it because the law says they don't have to disclose those records.
Click to expand...

I agree, the FAA and their friends in other departments of gov will always find a way, same logic with the advent of 91.13.
 
Old Thread: Hello . There have been no replies in this thread for 365 days.
Content in this thread may no longer be relevant.
Perhaps it would be better to start a new thread instead.
Back
Top