Replica P-51 Mustang - Destroyed

Awesome. The owner of this airplane has been bombarding forum after forum with 1/2 of this story, leaving out any mention of his responsibility.

Myron Oleson, my hat is off to you.

I have a funny feeling it is gonna get more and more difficult for you to find help on this project.
 
Is Dan Gryder the new RickRoll?

I lasted 21 seconds, which is about 3 seconds into his intro before rolling my eyes and aborting.
 
The tale of the tape. Watch and listen. The whole story is there. Including the pilot disobeying the mechanic, when he was told not to fly the airplane.

Yes, the owner make the worlds biggest mistake...allowing that pilot to get within 100 feet of that airplane.

How many here would have flown this airplane, with no less than 6 mechanical problems, each one of them of grounding nature? And after being specifically told not to fly the plane?
 
Myron has made many claims around this crash, they may all be correct. Or not - the other parties involved haven't commented. But the airplane crashed because the engine quit. The engine quit because the primary electrical system kicked out and took the ECU (engine control unit) with it. There was no backup source to power the ECU. You ALWAYS include a backup source of electricity (a backup battery) in an airplane that is electrically dependent. This has been standard stuff in the Experimental world for decades and is also standard in the Certified world as it moves towards electronic ignition.

This accident is a good example of why.

This was a complicated project and the owner wasn't knowledgeable enough to get the systems design right, nor did he hire the right people to help him get it right.

His post/video gets under my skin because the owner is disingenuous and instead of coming here and saying "I'm Myron Oleson, and look what happened to my airplane", he posts a drive by video of information he spoon fed Dan Gryder. No attribution, no indication that he has a dog in the fight. It just isn't forthright and honest.
 
You can like or dislike Gryder. I don’t care, neither does he.
Yes, I hired the wrong pilot.
He knowingly flew a broken plane, after stating he would only taxi it. And after being told by the owner’s personal mechanic not to fly it.
He was well aware of the major electrical problems. Only a fool, or someone with a death wish would fly it that day.

It is obvious most do not know the systems on my plane. It never lost electrical power. All buses were powered.
The ECU breaker tripped from an overload by the O2 sensors, pulling over 50 amps in a 40 amp system. And the 15 amp ECU breaker tripped.
The amp gauge pegged to 50+ amps during takeoff. Any real pilot with half a brain would have aborted. The plane should have never left the hangar.

Parking brake set.
 
kyleb said:
Myron has made many claims around this crash, they may all be correct. Or not - the other parties involved haven't commented. But the airplane crashed because the engine quit. The engine quit because the primary electrical system kicked out and took the ECU (engine control unit) with it. There was no backup source to power the ECU. You ALWAYS include a backup source of electricity (a backup battery) in an airplane that is electrically dependent. This has been standard stuff in the Experimental world for decades and is also standard in the Certified world as it moves towards electronic ignition.

This accident is a good example of why.

This was a complicated project and the owner wasn't knowledgeable enough to get the systems design right, nor did he hire the right people to help him get it right.

His post/video gets under my skin because the owner is disingenuous and instead of coming here and saying "I'm Myron Oleson, and look what happened to my airplane", he posts a drive by video of information he spoon fed Dan Gryder. No attribution, no indication that he has a dog in the fight. It just isn't forthright and honest.
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I also agree with this analysis, but I think the point with Dan‘s video is worth highlighting. I’m sure the Dan is getting a ton of leads and information from people that are sending him stuff and whether or not the owner spoon fed this to Dan the fact of the matter is that it is true if what Dan’s video shows is correct, the FAA absolutely did not adequately address the true cause of the problem, which is a fair and legitimate beef.
Dan appears to be asking for better oversight of the FAA (see his video on the 737MAX deal and talking about the FAA head) more appropriate and swift responses to blatant problems, and for pilots to fly better. Those are all valid concerns.
 
Dan was provided with most of the same evidence that was given to the FAA in my formal filing.
The CLE FSDO chose to do nothing.
Again, I want to know who among you would have flown this plane?

Edit: Dan actually has more direct evidence. The flight controls were broken, and it is on video.
CFR 91.213

The FSDO was made aware of this, they had no interest.

BTW - The FAA was "spoon fed" everything, videos, and documents from the manufacturers of aircraft parts, POH, etc.
 
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Are you going to seek remedy from the pilot?
 
Couple of points:

The CFR referenced above is not applicable here. Inop flaps are not a regulatory no-go on an experimental during phase 1 testing.

The test pilot in this case had <according to Myron> previously crashed >10 Titan Mustangs. If you're gonna hire people to do your work (fly the airplane, maintain the airplane, design the electrical system), you really need to properly vet them or it can get expensive quickly.
 
Thanks for the compliment! Most of the folks who saw the plane said it was one of the nicest examples of the T-51D Mustang. The propeller was super cool, coming from Whirlwind, and was designed by Jim Rust.

We are making repairs now. No reason to seek any remedy from the PIC. That is another story...a 3 beer story!
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kyleb said:
Couple of points:

The CFR referenced above is not applicable here. Inop flaps are not a regulatory no-go on an experimental during phase 1 testing.

The test pilot in this case had <according to Myron> previously crashed >10 Titan Mustangs. If you're gonna hire people to do your work (fly the airplane, maintain the airplane, design the electrical system), you really need to properly vet them or it can get expensive quickly.
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According to the FAA, and the Van's forum, CFR 91.213 does apply. My DAR agrees.

I was told (by first hand witnesses) that at the crash scene, Koleno was bragging about mine being #12 on his list. This, while he was cutting up, and cracking jokes with the first responders.

Most of what we all now know about Koleno has only been learned post crash. But I have known him for over 10 years. He has been an overnight guest in my house.

In my wildest dreams it was never imagined that he would show such a complete lack of judgement, and careless/reckless operating practices. See 91.13
 
Myron, you've been litigating this thing on the Homebuilt Aircraft Forum and VAF (by the way, not being open and honest on those forums either) since the airplane crashed in July. Your first post on the subject on the Homebuilt aircraft forum was "Just a hypothetical, but..."

Be open and honest. If you think you have a case, go get a lawyer. It sucks that your project is wrecked. But you're not helping yourself flailing around on the internet. You're going to make yourself radioactive - nobody wants *that guy* as their customer.
 
Project: Mustang LLC said:
I was told (by first hand witnesses) that at the crash scene, Koleno was bragging about mine being #12 on his list. This, while he was cutting up, and cracking jokes with the first responders.
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What kind of sick bastard revels in destroying people's airplanes? I'd be hard pressed to not want to seek remedy.
 
Did this accident happen before or after Elliot Sequin's (Wasabi Air Racing) Titan accident?

Seems like the accident pilot could have learned a lot from Elliot.
 
kyleb said:
Myron, you've been litigating this thing on the Homebuilt Aircraft Forum and VAF (by the way, not being open and honest on those forums either) since the airplane crashed in July. Your first post on the subject on the Homebuilt aircraft forum was "Just a hypothetical, but..."

Be open and honest. If you think you have a case, go get a lawyer. It sucks that your project is wrecked. But you're not helping yourself flailing around on the internet. You're going to make yourself radioactive - nobody wants *that guy* as their customer.
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Kyle -

Full disclosure, my attorney agrees this case is very winnable, in civil court. But it would be non productive, financially.
Honest? No false statements have been made. This crash has not been mentioned on Van’s.
Radio active? No worries. My team is working full speed ahead! Hope to be back in the air within a year or so.
With the correct test pilot this time. One that has the brains to know when not to fly.

Fly Safe -

MDO
 
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From a dollar cost standpoint, and insurance coverage, it was destroyed. It will take money from my savings in addition to insurance to fully repair.

Anything is fixable, if you take it down to the last bolt and washer…and that is exactly what we are doing now.
 
Fearless Tower said:
Did this accident happen before or after Elliot Sequin's (Wasabi Air Racing) Titan accident?

Seems like the accident pilot could have learned a lot from Elliot.
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I was thinking the same thing. Of course, Elliot was actually competent. But the common theme is an electrical issue that ultimately killed the engine. I would LOVE to have one of those. But it appears I would need a lot of time, money and an excellent mechanic to keep things operating smoothly. Currently I’m 0 for 3 of those. But I’m willing to accept donations.
 
The accident happened in early July.
Project: Mustang LLC said:
Kyle -

Full disclosure, my attorney agrees this case is very winnable, in civil court. But it would be non productive, financially.
Honest? No false statements have been made.
Radio active? No worries. My team is working full speed ahead! Hope to be back in the air within a year or so.
With the correct test pilot this time. One that has the brains to know when not to fly.

Fly Safe -

MDO
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Good luck with the project Myron. If you can, get people who understand systems design to review your flight critical systems. The electrical system design was the root cause of your airplane crashing. That crash was a near-certainty at some point given the lack of a backup battery to power the ECU.

What is the goal of your continued prosecution of this accident via the internet? I just don't get it.
 
Why run the plane anywhere but tied down with such whopping deficiencies? O2 sensors took the electrical system out? They really don' t use any power unless the heaters were hooked up, but you shouldn't need the heaters in this application. In fact you probably don't need the O2 sensors, but that would require more design work.

You need to do a basic design review, starting with electrical system basics, then moving on to designing and building a backup system dedicated to solely keeping that engine running. All this should be done, installed and tested before that airplane gets near a runway again.

I know you are blaming the mechanic/test pilot, but this airplane was a death trap, this was going to happen sooner or later.
 
Project: Mustang LLC said:
Again, I want to know who among you would have flown this plane?
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No, I would not have flown this plane. Then again, I have been in some amateur built race cars I wish I had never been in so I am not going to make the same mistake with amateur built airplanes
 
Project: Mustang LLC said:
From a dollar cost standpoint, and insurance coverage, it was destroyed. It will take money from my savings in addition to insurance to fully repair.
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That doesn’t sound like “destroyed” by any definition. “Totaled” yes.
Anything is fixable, if you take it down to the last bolt and washer…and that is exactly what we are doing now.
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So you’re taking the entire airplane apart completely, no two pieces left together, and starting from there?
 
The plane is literally in pieces now, except some of the fuselage.

Ok, it was totaled. From a cost viewpoint. Most people say it was destroyed.

The intent is to save just one person from making the mistake I made.

8 O2 sensors with heaters, and an expert (from that other forum) told me that might have been as much as 24 amps.
 
I hope that you are including dual ECU's each feeding 4 cylinders, dual alternators, dual batteries, and split buss system. The ECU's should have switches to transfer them to either battery, so if one battery system fails, and half power is taking place, the ECU on the failed system may be transferred tot he good system, and full power restored.

Certainly the present electrical system is inadequate for an aircraft, and requires a total redesign, before mechanical repairs are considered. Your plane with a high electrical power requirement has a weaker system than the Cessna 4 seat planes I am accustomed to flying, and they have dual magneto's, redundant to the battery system.

Is your electrical system the standard recommended by the factory? Do they offer a more robust system with dual alternators and dual batteries with suitable changeover switches for essential circuits? For the dollars you have already invested, such upgrades seem a valuable insurance that such an event will not occur again. Power failure in the DC system is a common event, and should not lead to a crash or forced landing. Most power failures are not complete, but with yuour complete reliance on a single system, turning off the non essential items can save the day, but with so low a capacity system as you seem to have, that is not an apparent viable choice.

Good luck on your recovery from this mess.
 
My system exceeds factory requirements. Dual bus, dual battery, triple redundancy.
New 60 amp alternator installed, an aircraft alternator.

No one that I know runs dual alternators. Very few run dual ECU’s. That was not my problem.

The O2 sensors were wired into the ECU circuit. That was the error. There was a protection relay wired in, but it failed.
And my plane will never leave the ground with O2 sensors installed.
 
Project: Mustang LLC said:
the pilot disobeying the mechanic, when he was told not to fly the airplane.
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Project: Mustang LLC said:
with no less than 6 mechanical problems, each one of them of grounding nature? And after being specifically told not to fly the plane?
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Project: Mustang LLC said:
He knowingly flew a broken plane, after stating he would only taxi it. And after being told by the owner’s personal mechanic not to fly it.
He was well aware of the major electrical problems. Only a fool, or someone with a death wish would fly it that day.
Any real pilot with half a brain would have aborted.
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Project: Mustang LLC said:
In my wildest dreams it was never imagined that he would show such a complete lack of judgement, and careless/reckless operating practices.
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Project: Mustang LLC said:
Full disclosure, my attorney agrees this case is very winnable, in civil court. But it would be non productive, financially.
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Project: Mustang LLC said:
No reason to seek any remedy from the PIC.
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Your plane, your problem, your choices, I'm not judging but from a readers perspective, this is hard to understand.
The two bold statements especially. And I'm only asking out of curiosity.

Why non productive financially?

And if all the ranting is actually true, you have great reason to seek remedy. It just seems you have reason(s) not to.

And according to this:
Project: Mustang LLC said:
It will take money from my savings in addition to insurance to fully repair.
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you must have some very good reasons..

Will insurance even consider this fiasco payable?? Yet another reason to seek remedy...... but maybe insurance is going to pay, since your team is fully underway.

Either way, hope the best for you mate... she is a real beaut.
 
This is all public record...so here goes.

WTK owns nothing. Nothing! Not even his house. He has a "money man" that finances what he calls his business, but he has no tangible assets.
There are judgements against him already. The big one is $180,000.00 @ 4% interest, from 2017.

He is no longer employed by Titan Aircraft. You might want to ask why?
We could easily win in court against him, but it would be futile.

I have settled with the insurance company. My policy will not be renewed. Most likely will never have hull coverage again.

Yes, my problem. And I do not want anyone to ever go through this. Be careful who you allow to fly your plane. That was my error.

There is much more concerning Mr. Koleno. But you will need to PM me, as it is confidential in nature.
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Here is a short list of what was filed:

Here are the facts, as reported to the FAA Safety Hotline:

1. The aircraft flap system (major flight controls) was broken, inoperative. Neither locked in the UP position, nor the DOWN position. They trailed freely in the breeze. CFR 91.213

2. Electrical system malfunction. The current draw was excessive, peaking at 50+ amps. The system is only rated for a maximum of 40 amps. This was a known problem by the test pilot and the mechanic who was on the scene. The mechanic told the test pilot..."Do not fly the aircraft".

3. The cowling sides and top were missing, not installed. The aircraft was certified in condition for safe flight, in a fully assembled status. Not with parts missing. This missing parts would have caused a great deal of parasitic drag.

4. Prop governor problems. The control spring in the prop governor was too tight, not allowing for course pitch selection at reduced rpm settings. The prop went flat pitch after the power loss, and became a 90 inch speed brake.

The aircraft, N15180, was not in condition for safe flight, and was not airworthy. The owner’s personal mechanic told WTK not to fly the plane.

The test pilot stated on tape..."Let me taxi the plane, and see if I can get the engine to miss. Just let me taxi it."

This aircraft crashed for one reason, and one reason only. The test pilot ignored the advice of the mechanic, taking the aircraft straight to the runway, with no pre takeoff checks or engine runups, and applied full takeoff power. 12 seconds later the aircraft was destroyed. If this does not show intent, dangerous, reckless, and careless, nothing does.
CFR 91.13

Those are the facts. You be the judge as to who is to blame for the destruction of a $400,000 replica P-51.

As the builder, my airworthiness certificate was issued for a fully assembled plane, not missing parts, and a fully functional plane. Not a plane that had inoperative flight controls.

This is a huge FYI.
 
Obviously and unfortunately, you did not do due diligence before hiring him.

I was hired to ferry a plane from Florida to Maryland, and the owner required me to supply my log book, and certificate for photo copies, and made a check with the FAA, as well as my partners in my plane before he gave me the keys.

When my partners add a new instructor to our approved list, they get a careful screening too.
 
Myron, neither the flaps or the cowling caused the airplane to crash. There is no MEL for your airplane. That's pilot discretion kind of stuff, particularly in when doing flight test. Was the prop issue known prior to the flight?

How does the "owner's mechanic" have more authority on when to fly the plane than the "owner's test pilot"? And, for all that is holy, if you're the owner, instead of saying "The owner's" say "My".
 
Yes, that is HIS employee who flew HIS plane. Did HE give instructions to his mechanic to keep that pilot out of his plane? Did he tell his mechanic to have his test pilot run the engine to test some of the work performed?

There lies the "rest of the story".

With $400,000 involved, the plane would not move without my specific permission, and the systems would be fully checked out, on the ground, chocked. Tail tied down.
 
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kyleb said:
How does the "owner's mechanic" have more authority on when to fly the plane than the "owner's test pilot"?
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The facts surrounding this incident notwithstanding, look into the philosophy of the flight test "no vote". It's not a measure of "when to fly," it's a measure of when to NOT fly.

Nauga,
with no tolerance for cowboys
 
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