Replacing Windows XP

35B33

Pre-Flight
Joined
Jun 30, 2013
Messages
92
Display Name

Display name:
Cal
Anyone found a good (best price) source for Windows 7? I have one laptop with 7 and laptop and a desk top on XP-32 bit. There used to be a family pack for up to three computers but I have not seen it recently.

I don't really want to go to 8 until I have to buy a new computer.
 
Ebay or Amazon... $95 or so, plus the 3-7 hours to load, update and re-install all your programs and data. You must do a "clean" install, which means whacking your system and reloading everything. Unless you really enjoy downloading drivers, installing stuff and tweaking things, this is not a fun job. Sometimes it goes smoothly, but other times not so much... If you're running older versions of software, like QBooks or others, you'll need to also get newer versions of them, too. XP was not sold since 2008. That means most of the newest PCs running it are 6+ years old, which also means they may have been equipped with less RAM than you'll want for Win7.
It's a tough choice, but my money says it may be time for a new PC. Your old machine has been faithfully running, maybe 24/7, for years. The chance it will fail, after all your hard work, goes up every day.
 
Last edited:
8 isn't so bad once you get used to it. I use the "desktop" mode which is just like XP.
 
The first thing you must do is go online with the computer you want to upgrade, go to Microsoft to see if it's upgradeable. Mine was, and I did a clean install and added RAM. Works good, but as was said, I spent quite a bit of time reinstalling software. Most of it works, but I have some expensive stuff that worked in XP that is no longer usable.
 
Funny thing about upgrading software, it generally needs more hardware to run. The desktop was new in the summer of 2006, pentium 3.4Ghz cpu, bumped memory up to 4Gb/3.49Gb addressable, and a hard drive 20% full.

W7 runs more of my older programs than does W8. I still like the 2003 versions of Excel and Word and replaced the 2010 version on my 7 laptop. As of now, 7 has support into 2020 while 8 goes until 2023. Plus I have been using W7 on the laptop for several years. But I would like 64 bit addressing :).
 
I have win 8 on a new laptop with a touch screen, the jury is still out, but so far I really like it.


I don't like installing new systems on older computers as it usually ends up aggravating me in the end. YMMV
 
Personally, I actually feel a little bad that Windows 8 is so hated. It's not crap like WinMe and Vista were (and even Vista wasn't as horrible as its reputation once SP1 came out).

Windows 8 is a great OS under the hood. But like most other users, I too hate the Metro GUI. I can't imagine why anyone would actually want to fill their whole screen with one or two "apps." It makes no sense.

Luckily, the horror of the Metro interface can easily be fixed with Classic Shell. I don't like the idea of having to install a third-party kludge on a brand-new computer just to have a Start Menu and a display that doesn't look like a phone; but hey, it is what it is. And the performance and stability of 8 are even better than 7, which was pretty freaking outstanding in its own right.

MS should thank Ivo Beltchev for saving the otherwise excellent Windows 8 from what would have been almost certain obscurity -- just for the lack of a Start Menu. I don't think I know a single person presently running 8 who didn't install Classic Shell (or pay someone else to do it for them) within four minutes of booting the machine for the first time. Microsoft's obstinate refusal to restore the Start Menu and other familiar aspects of Windows is almost as puzzling as why anyone uses Metro in the first place.

As for backward compatibility, I really haven't had problems running any of my older software on 8 in one or another of its compatibility modes, but YMMV.

-Rich
 
Last edited:
I have two fine laptops and a tower running XP.

The problem with upgrading a laptop is finding WIN7 drivers for your built-in and non-replaceable hardware... video, audio, wifi, LAN,etc.

Run the upgrade advisor.
 
W8 questioned more of my drivers and apps than W7, one big caution was the potential inability to access the MS app store. Oh horrors, how can one survive without the app store? Too much of an apple approach for me.

I agree that 8.1 made life easier for the traditional Windows user but system stability hasn't been an issue for me with either XP or W7. W9 talk speculates a Spring 2015 arrival, accidentally buying alternate releases of Windows has worked pretty well so far.

Not totally behind the times, I did get a Nexus 7 a few months ago and like it a lot. But it is hard to beat the big screen or the desktop's two big screens.
 
I had an old, unopened Vista upgrade that I installed on my XP Netbook. It upgraded fine, saved most of my configuration, but had to upgrade a bit more of the software than I expected. Still easier than a fresh install of 7, but it took 10 days to get things to my liking.

No, it's not perfect, but it runs OK and it should last long enough for me to get a bit more time out of this computer. The desktop is on 7, and works well.
 
MS makes a version of Windows called 'Windows 7 Home Basic'. It's perfect for upgrading an XP machine because it is the Win 7 operating system with a lot of the 'Aero' gui stuff and some other non-essential features stripped out. It runs great on small machines.

Sadly you can't have it in the U.S. unless you are an MSDN developer. :(
 
Personally, I actually feel a little bad that Windows 8 is so hated. It's not crap like WinMe and Vista were (and even Vista wasn't as horrible as its reputation once SP1 came out).

Windows 8 is a great OS under the hood. But like most other users, I too hate the Metro GUI. I can't imagine why anyone would actually want to fill their whole screen with one or two "apps." It makes no sense.

Luckily, the horror of the Metro interface can easily be fixed with Classic Shell. I don't like the idea of having to install a third-party kludge on a brand-new computer just to have a Start Menu and a display that doesn't look like a phone; but hey, it is what it is. And the performance and stability of 8 are even better than 7, which was pretty freaking outstanding in its own right.

It looks like Microsoft is finally going to fix that mistake.

http://techcrunch.com/2014/04/02/microsoft-will-soon-bring-back-the-start-menu-in-windows-8-1/

And, just as a datapoint, I installed 8.1 and never installed one of the start menu hacks. I did change it to boot directly to the desktop and show me Apps when I click Start instead of the Start screen, but most of what I use everyday ended up on the taskbar, and what's not is listed generally in the first column of apps.

Even more, when I sit down at a Windows 7 computer I find myself missing the right click menu they put on the Start button in 8.1.
 
This thread is missing a plug for Linux. So I'll do the honors. YMMV (a lot).

I just built my significant other a new computer. She had an ultra-slow HP desktop using Windows Vista (which I despised). Built her a new one with Linux Mint 13 as the OS. Should suit her great. In fairness, though, she uses it for little more than web surfing and picture storage, and her kids for web-based games and book reports. This is one of a number of perfectly-suited scenarios for Linux Mint.
 
I have a Dell desktop I bought new in December 2006 with XP, promoted as "Vista ready." I never installed Vista, and now there's a hardware issue that's keeping it from booting. It's been a sensational machine, and I'm loathe to put it in a landfill over planned obsolescence.

I could get a new computer, or probably install Win 7 with my existing hardware once repaired, but I've pretty much decided to fix the machine, keep XP, and just keep it offline as a dedicated audio workstation. I use an older version of Adobe Audition (1.0) for audio editing and podcast production, and it was left behind by Windows 8. Newer versions of the software will run under Win 8, but Adobe bloated Audition horrendously before integrating it into Creative Suite, and now offers only subscription cloud access.

If anyone knows audio editing software and can recommend a Linux replacement for Audition, I'd be all ears.
 
Last edited:
I've got a few machines running windows 7 just because it's a nuisance to upgrade them.
The rest are at 8.1 and frankly I've not had a tremendous amount of issues with it.
It seems Microsoft finally got the quality issues under control. 8.1 is the only reasonable thing they've done since XP.
 
It looks like Microsoft is finally going to fix that mistake.

http://techcrunch.com/2014/04/02/microsoft-will-soon-bring-back-the-start-menu-in-windows-8-1/

And, just as a datapoint, I installed 8.1 and never installed one of the start menu hacks. I did change it to boot directly to the desktop and show me Apps when I click Start instead of the Start screen, but most of what I use everyday ended up on the taskbar, and what's not is listed generally in the first column of apps.

Even more, when I sit down at a Windows 7 computer I find myself missing the right click menu they put on the Start button in 8.1.

The Start Menu is the talking point, but actually, there were quite a few other usability features hacked out of Windows 8 (some of which were restored in 8.1), including simple things like the "Up" button and other features in the file manager. Beltchev's hack replaces these features, and even improves upon the "official" versions in some cases. Looking at the "official" version, I think I might be inclined to stick with the hack.

One thing that baffles me is MS's obsession with the tiles. Even while giving users their Start Menu back, they still insist on integrating the Metro tiles into it. I suppose it has to do with monetization at some point, both on "app" sales and on ads from free "apps." I think that also explains why they try so hard to get Windows 8 / 8.1 users to use a Microsoft account as their local login. They're probably tracking user activity for marketing / advertising purposes.

But I also can't help believe that MS's OS sale and upgrade revenue losses from turning desktop users off from a perfectly good operating system (not to mention nudging along users who were already on the verge of jumping ship to Mac or Linux) far exceed whatever pocket change they might make from commissions on the sale of a $4.95 calendar "app."

It's all quite bizarre. MS may be many things, but stupid isn't one of them. And frustrating your user base is stupid, especially when those users have options. This is even more true with regard to businesses, for whom productivity loss is measured in dollars, and who already had a perfectly good OS in Windows 7. Telling your business users that their employees will have to do without familiar usability features -- for no reason other than that MS decided to remove them -- doesn't exactly inspire enthusiasm to upgrade, especially when the OS they're upgrading from is stable, fast, and familiar.

I can understand MS's desire to have some degree of consistency across various devices, especially in the case of younger users and those for whom computers are more toys than tools. What didn't make sense was actively removing usability features -- they actually pulled the code, not just disabled it -- for desktop and laptop users for whom Metro is nothing more than an annoying intrusion.

Had MS chosen Metro as the default start screen, but left an unaltered (from Windows 7) desktop as an available user-selectable option, I think Windows 8 would have been embraced. They would have had to do NOTHING to the desktop GUI. Just leave it alone and make it available as an option. But they went out of their way to not only remove features, but to actually remove the code behind those features, so even advanced users couldn't poke around in the Registry to re-enable them. That took a lot of additional coding -- and for what? To alienate long-time users? To discourage businesses from upgrading? To boost sales for Apple, punish PC OEMs, and increase the user bases for Ubuntu and Mint?

It was a patently idiotic move on MS's part, and I believe that they're realizing that now. Whatever advertising or commission revenue they're getting from the sale of "apps" on their "store" can't possibly offset the losses they're experiencing from annoying and alienating their user base and tarnishing the reputation of an otherwise-superb operating system.

And that's the biggest irony of all: As an OS, in terms of doing the things that an OS is supposed to do, Windows 8 is a jewel. But Microsoft went out of its way to remove familiar usability features, tarnishing the operating system's reputation, and causing a worldwide slump in PC sales in the process -- despite the fact that the underlying product was superb! That has to rank among the most dubious achievements in the history of I.T.

Getting back to the thread topic, I actually have a tiny notebook computer with an SSD running XP that I'm using as a video server, of all things. I use it because it draws almost no power. It's pretty well firewalled, so I may do nothing for the time being. I have a hunch, however, that I'll wind up installing a custom Linux on it at some point. It only has to do one thing: Convert a webcam input to an FLV stream and feed it to an upstream server, which is where the heavy lifting happens.

I suppose I'll wind up custom-compiling a kernel and stripping out everything that's unnecessary for that one task, and keeping the machine itself in service for another ten years or so.

-Rich
 
Last edited:
It looks like Microsoft is finally going to fix that mistake.

http://techcrunch.com/2014/04/02/microsoft-will-soon-bring-back-the-start-menu-in-windows-8-1/

And, just as a datapoint, I installed 8.1 and never installed one of the start menu hacks. I did change it to boot directly to the desktop and show me Apps when I click Start instead of the Start screen, but most of what I use everyday ended up on the taskbar, and what's not is listed generally in the first column of apps.

Even more, when I sit down at a Windows 7 computer I find myself missing the right click menu they put on the Start button in 8.1.

Smart move on their part. I have tried to love Metro but so far have failed.
 
I used to run my entire tech support business on Linux. I had Windows computers, as well, mainly because that was the platform I supported. But the office itself ran on Linux and other open-source software.

One thing I learned from that is that most offices could, in fact, run on Linux. For practically every Windows-based application, there's an open-source substitute. It may not be quite the same; but some proprietary and popular Window-based programs aren't all that great, either. I personally detest Quickbooks and anything else Intuit makes, for example. I consider it to be buggy, bloated, resource-hungry garbage.

Prior to Microsoft's actually figuring out how to build a stable OS, I used to compare Windows and the applications written for it to national fast-food chains like McDonald's, Wendy's, Subway, and so forth. The food wasn't exactly fine cuisine, but it was edible and consistent. No matter where you were, you could count on a predictable level of mediocrity and blandness. That's what those companies have going for them, and it's the same thing that kept users and companies using Windows and Windows-based programs for all those years when Microsoft couldn't build a stable OS if they stood on their heads.

Microsoft's cleaned up its act since then. But the truth is that most companies could still run their offices on open-source software if they wanted to, at essentially zero software cost. In fact, they could do so more easily today. Microsoft has progressed, but so has the open-source community.

Mint, for example, is an outstanding, Debian-based Linux distribution that I use quite often. There also are many more -- and better -- open-source applications written for Linux than there were a decade ago, some of which I believe are much better than their proprietary counterparts. The most familiar example is probably OpenOffice, which I've been using in preference to MS-Office ever since it was a Sun product (StarOffice).

But there's that momentum thing. Windows is the standard and people are used to it. Moving over to open-source would require retraining people, which means lost productivity, which means lost revenue. Moreover, the biggest productivity losses would be among the most-advanced users -- the ones who had taken the time to learn all the tricks and shortcuts. It could take years for those users to get back up to speed on open-source software.

And so people and companies stayed with Windows even through the years when it was crap (particularly the releases in the DOS lineage) mainly because of its ubiquity and their familiarity with it, not because it was all that wonderful an OS.

In that light, the question of why MS threw away that asset -- user familiarity -- is even more puzzling. Considered along with the current eagerness of companies to hire bean counters to analyze every single one of a company's expenditures and find every wasted penny, it's even more difficult to understand. One would think that MS would want to capitalize on that momentum and familiarity, not toss it into the trash in favor of making pennies in commissions on cheap "apps" sold to teenagers with prepaid debit cards.

Maybe they thought that now that they've figured out how to build an OS that actually works well, they could afford to throw a bag full of curve balls, sinkers, and sliders to their long-time users. And maybe they're now realizing that they were wrong.

-Rich
 
That was funny.

Took a look at the cheap refurbs but Dell has been running outlet sales for the last few weeks. Today a 30% off started and they had one for $398, after discount, with W8.1, 8gb memory, and 1 TB hard drive - not that much more than the overstock refurbs. Ironically, a W7 version was $80 more.
 
I used to run my entire tech support business on Linux. I had Windows computers, as well, mainly because that was the platform I supported. But the office itself ran on Linux and other open-source software.

One thing I learned from that is that most offices could, in fact, run on Linux. For practically every Windows-based application, there's an open-source substitute. It may not be quite the same; but some proprietary and popular Window-based programs aren't all that great, either. I personally detest Quickbooks and anything else Intuit makes, for example. I consider it to be buggy, bloated, resource-hungry garbage.

Prior to Microsoft's actually figuring out how to build a stable OS, I used to compare Windows and the applications written for it to national fast-food chains like McDonald's, Wendy's, Subway, and so forth. The food wasn't exactly fine cuisine, but it was edible and consistent. No matter where you were, you could count on a predictable level of mediocrity and blandness. That's what those companies have going for them, and it's the same thing that kept users and companies using Windows and Windows-based programs for all those years when Microsoft couldn't build a stable OS if they stood on their heads.

Microsoft's cleaned up its act since then. But the truth is that most companies could still run their offices on open-source software if they wanted to, at essentially zero software cost. In fact, they could do so more easily today. Microsoft has progressed, but so has the open-source community.

Mint, for example, is an outstanding, Debian-based Linux distribution that I use quite often. There also are many more -- and better -- open-source applications written for Linux than there were a decade ago, some of which I believe are much better than their proprietary counterparts. The most familiar example is probably OpenOffice, which I've been using in preference to MS-Office ever since it was a Sun product (StarOffice).

But there's that momentum thing. Windows is the standard and people are used to it. Moving over to open-source would require retraining people, which means lost productivity, which means lost revenue. Moreover, the biggest productivity losses would be among the most-advanced users -- the ones who had taken the time to learn all the tricks and shortcuts. It could take years for those users to get back up to speed on open-source software.

And so people and companies stayed with Windows even through the years when it was crap (particularly the releases in the DOS lineage) mainly because of its ubiquity and their familiarity with it, not because it was all that wonderful an OS.

In that light, the question of why MS threw away that asset -- user familiarity -- is even more puzzling. Considered along with the current eagerness of companies to hire bean counters to analyze every single one of a company's expenditures and find every wasted penny, it's even more difficult to understand. One would think that MS would want to capitalize on that momentum and familiarity, not toss it into the trash in favor of making pennies in commissions on cheap "apps" sold to teenagers with prepaid debit cards.

Maybe they thought that now that they've figured out how to build an OS that actually works well, they could afford to throw a bag full of curve balls, sinkers, and sliders to their long-time users. And maybe they're now realizing that they were wrong.

-Rich

Sorry Rich,
You are wrong. Most companies don't come out ahead running open source, especially on the desktop. Sure, it makes sense in large web farms where you have uniform deployments of applications and adequate, knowledgeable support on staff, but not for the non techie small businesses or even the large enterprise businesses that have great diverse needs across their user base. By and large the business app base is written for Windows and this also where support is most readily available. Support, not acquisition, is by far the largest cost of IT. I have owned a successful IT service provider business since 1994 and was in the business for years before that. The businesses I have worked with (many large fortune 100 and 500 included) are not run by dummies. If the numbers crunched, they would have jumped on board. These are not ignorant or misinformed people and yet, Microsoft still dominates the desktop...
 
Sorry Rich,
You are wrong. Most companies don't come out ahead running open source, especially on the desktop. Sure, it makes sense in large web farms where you have uniform deployments of applications and adequate, knowledgeable support on staff, but not for the non techie small businesses or even the large enterprise businesses that have great diverse needs across their user base. By and large the business app base is written for Windows and this also where support is most readily available. Support, not acquisition, is by far the largest cost of IT. I have owned a successful IT service provider business since 1994 and was in the business for years before that. The businesses I have worked with (many large fortune 100 and 500 included) are not run by dummies. If the numbers crunched, they would have jumped on board. These are not ignorant or misinformed people and yet, Microsoft still dominates the desktop...

Sorry, John, you're wrong. I get big checks for converting large operations to open source. If you have something that depends on Excel, you're losing money. I shouldn't be too harsh. Fixing Excel/Access/Microsoft cluster****s is what pays my bills.

If you're working with large fortune 100/500 companies, they are dummies. They want an ass to kick other than their own. That's why they pay MSFT and IBM even when better options are staring them in the face.

I told a VP of a LARGE fortune <single digit> company, in the past 2 weeks that his idea was great if his only motive was to redirect blame and not make the day to day operations more streamlined. I told him to make a decision. He chose having someone else to blame.

I've saved corps 7 figures by converting their apps to BSD and/or linux just on the per seat licensing figures alone.
 
Last edited:
Sorry, John, you're wrong. I get big checks for converting large operations to open source. If you have something that depends on Excel, you're losing money. I shouldn't be too harsh. Fixing Excel/Access/Microsoft cluster****s is what pays my bills.

If you're working with large fortune 100/500 companies, they are dummies. They want an ass to kick other than their own. That's why they pay MSFT and IBM even when better options are staring them in the face.

I told a VP of a LARGE fortune <single digit> company, in the past 2 weeks that his idea was great if his only motive was to redirect blame and not make the day to day operations more streamlined. I told him to make a decision. He chose having someone else to blame.

I've saved corps 7 figures by converting their apps to BSD and/or linux just on the per seat licensing figures alone.

Server based apps or desktop? I am not seeing Linux on the desktop anywhere, even die hard Linux shops.
 
Server based apps or desktop? I am not seeing Linux on the desktop anywhere, even die hard Linux shops.

I do mainly point of sale systems and data input systems. i.e. I ignore the executives and work directly with the users to come up with a solution.

I have a "no microsoft" policy. It works out real well. I refuse to even look at the excel/access app you're using. Show me what your business needs, not how you've created an unnecessary dependence on Microsoft because of that Intro to Computers class you took in JUCO 10 years ago.
 
I do mainly point of sale systems and data input systems. i.e. I ignore the executives and work directly with the users to come up with a solution.

I have a "no microsoft" policy. It works out real well. I refuse to even look at the excel/access app you're using. Show me what your business needs, not how you've created an unnecessary dependence on Microsoft because of that Intro to Computers class you took in JUCO 10 years ago.

Yeah, POS has a long history with Unix/Linux. I don't really deal with that. Mainly corporate desktops and "knowledge workers". Still, that's most of them.
 
Sorry Rich,
You are wrong. Most companies don't come out ahead running open source, especially on the desktop. Sure, it makes sense in large web farms where you have uniform deployments of applications and adequate, knowledgeable support on staff, but not for the non techie small businesses or even the large enterprise businesses that have great diverse needs across their user base. By and large the business app base is written for Windows and this also where support is most readily available. Support, not acquisition, is by far the largest cost of IT. I have owned a successful IT service provider business since 1994 and was in the business for years before that. The businesses I have worked with (many large fortune 100 and 500 included) are not run by dummies. If the numbers crunched, they would have jumped on board. These are not ignorant or misinformed people and yet, Microsoft still dominates the desktop...

It's not always like that, John.

I worked mainly with small and medium-sized business, and most of them could have handled all their business needs using open-source software.

I worked at one place that had 26 workstations running Windows NT4, and a Windows NT4 domain server to manage those workstations. One user was the bookkeeper, who needed to use Quickbooks because that's what the accountant told her she had to use. The other was the boss's secretary, who mainly used Word and Excel. The boss himself refused to touch a computer.

The other 24 users were CSR's using Windows to Telnet into a Unix server. That was all they used their workstations for. They weren't running a single native Windows program. The company was paying for the NT4 server, all those NT4 workstations, and all the CAL's for the workstations and whatever else was on the network, just so they could Telnet into a Unix database server.

When NT4 ran out of support, I suggested that they go with Linux workstations or thin clients for the CSRs. All they were using was Telnet, anyway. The company briefly considered it, but one of their on-site "experts" talked them out of it because Windows was what the workers were "used to."

I just nodded my head and shut up. If they wanted to **** away thousands of dollars so users could use one Telnet client instead of another, despite their being zero difference in the user experience, why should I care?

There's a lot of circular reasoning in platform selection, too. For example, I once supported a small construction company that was using an industry-proprietary, Web-based application whose server component was only "supported" on a Windows server. Previously it had been free-standing, but the then-newest release required a server.

On close examination, however, I found that the application actually required a WAMP server (Windows, Apache, MySQL, and PHP), and included that software as part of the package, to be installed on the Windows server. So I said to myself, "Self, there's no reason this can't run on a LAMP server," which would save the client a few grand.

Long story short, I extracted the files in Windows and then manually installed them on a spare LAMP box I had laying around. Other than creating and populating the database, it was just a matter of copying the files onto the Linux server and editing a single line of code on one file to insert the license key manually. Sure enough, it worked flawlessly.

The problem, of course, was that saying "it works" is not the same as saying "it's supported." The vendor refused to support it on Linux. It would complicate the updates, they said, because they were released as Windows executables. So the client had to spend several grand for a Windows server to run a Web application that ran perfectly well on an old Linux box that I'd been using as a doorstop because the vendor chose to package their updates as Windows executables.

That's what I mean by circular reasoning. The vendor packaged the updates as Windows executables because the system ran on Windows; and it had to run on Windows because the updates were packaged as Windows executables.

One area in which I do agree with you is that Linux is a much better server system than it is a desktop system. But it's not a horrible desktop system. I used it for years as my primary desktop OS, and probably would still be using it that way had I not migrated over to Web design. My Adobe stuff won't run reliably on WiNE, and I like and am familiar with the Adobe software. (So the familiarity and momentum aspects are operative in my choices, too.)

It's really not an issue anymore because Windows is a good OS nowadays. But my point is that Linux isn't horrid as a desktop OS. It's just better as a server OS. It could be a perfectly adequate desktop system for many businesses, especially where Web-based applications are used or when employees' duties are narrow and well-defined -- like the company with all those people using Windows to Telnet into a Unix box.

It all gets down to familiarity, even on the support end of things. Which, again, is why I think MS was crazy to tamper with familiarity. It's one of their most valuable assets. They should have been guarding it with their lives rather than intentionally ripping it out of the system.

-Rich
 
Last edited:
The Start Menu is the talking point, but actually, there were quite a few other usability features hacked out of Windows 8 (some of which were restored in 8.1), including simple things like the "Up" button and other features in the file manager. Beltchev's hack replaces these features, and even improves upon the "official" versions in some cases. Looking at the "official" version, I think I might be inclined to stick with the hack.

One thing that baffles me is MS's obsession with the tiles. Even while giving users their Start Menu back, they still insist on integrating the Metro tiles into it. I suppose it has to do with monetization at some point, both on "app" sales and on ads from free "apps." I think that also explains why they try so hard to get Windows 8 / 8.1 users to use a Microsoft account as their local login. They're probably tracking user activity for marketing / advertising purposes.

But I also can't help believe that MS's OS sale and upgrade revenue losses from turning desktop users off from a perfectly good operating system (not to mention nudging along users who were already on the verge of jumping ship to Mac or Linux) far exceed whatever pocket change they might make from commissions on the sale of a $4.95 calendar "app."

It's all quite bizarre. MS may be many things, but stupid isn't one of them. And frustrating your user base is stupid, especially when those users have options. This is even more true with regard to businesses, for whom productivity loss is measured in dollars, and who already had a perfectly good OS in Windows 7. Telling your business users that their employees will have to do without familiar usability features -- for no reason other than that MS decided to remove them -- doesn't exactly inspire enthusiasm to upgrade, especially when the OS they're upgrading from is stable, fast, and familiar.

I can understand MS's desire to have some degree of consistency across various devices, especially in the case of younger users and those for whom computers are more toys than tools. What didn't make sense was actively removing usability features -- they actually pulled the code, not just disabled it -- for desktop and laptop users for whom Metro is nothing more than an annoying intrusion.

Had MS chosen Metro as the default start screen, but left an unaltered (from Windows 7) desktop as an available user-selectable option, I think Windows 8 would have been embraced. They would have had to do NOTHING to the desktop GUI. Just leave it alone and make it available as an option. But they went out of their way to not only remove features, but to actually remove the code behind those features, so even advanced users couldn't poke around in the Registry to re-enable them. That took a lot of additional coding -- and for what? To alienate long-time users? To discourage businesses from upgrading? To boost sales for Apple, punish PC OEMs, and increase the user bases for Ubuntu and Mint?

It was a patently idiotic move on MS's part, and I believe that they're realizing that now. Whatever advertising or commission revenue they're getting from the sale of "apps" on their "store" can't possibly offset the losses they're experiencing from annoying and alienating their user base and tarnishing the reputation of an otherwise-superb operating system.

And that's the biggest irony of all: As an OS, in terms of doing the things that an OS is supposed to do, Windows 8 is a jewel. But Microsoft went out of its way to remove familiar usability features, tarnishing the operating system's reputation, and causing a worldwide slump in PC sales in the process -- despite the fact that the underlying product was superb! That has to rank among the most dubious achievements in the history of I.T.

Thanks for confirming that I did the right thing in going with 7. After I bought one of the few models that HP is selling with 7 on it, I was starting to worry when you started sounding positive about 8.1, but now I know I did the right thing. Aside from the fact that I don't like being asked to relearn how to do things, removing features is definitely a big negative in my book.

I too, wish that Microsoft had kept 7 for the desktop portion of the OS. If they had done that, I would have no qualms about switching to 8.1.

As for Microsoft's intelligence level, I think that has been severely compromised by the arrogance that comes with having gotten used to a 90% market share. I hope the new guy will pay more attention to what the user base wants.
 
One of the issues I have been facing in switching to 7 for everything except my gaming machine (which has been disconnected from the Internet) is finding a replacement for Outlook Express. At first I tried Scribe, but when I couldn't figure out the settings to connect to the email server, the program couldn't even find its own help files in the Win7 64-bit environment. So I downloaded Thunderbird, and I am very pleased with the results so far. I especially liked how easy it was to connect to my email account, and that they made it easy to find out how to turn on the menu bar. The only stumble was when I tried to import some of my email folders, but I eventually found a solution for that, and it even preserved the folder hierarchy, which Scribe did not do.
 
Will Thunderbird work with Exchange?
 
Will Thunderbird work with Exchange?

Not really. Or at least not completely. It will collect the mail if configured properly, and handle some of the other functions with varying degrees of bugginess if certain extensions are installed; but it's not a perfect substitute.

-Rich
 
25% off at the Dell outlet this morning and I got a Inspiron 3647, W7 64 bit, for $261. Only an I3 chip but 4Gb memory and 1Tb hard drive. Can hold up to 16 Gb of memory but I will see how 4Gb works out.

Now to take care of the wife's laptop.
 
Last edited:
Back
Top