Replacing my battery

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dennyleeb

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It is time for a new battery in the plane. It is either gonna be a Gill or Concord. Does anyone have a opinion to which is better? Reviews?
 
I replaced my Tiger's battery with a Gill G25. It is the ONLY battery in which I am able to install, unless I get the paperwork done to install something else.

Check if you need and STC or not.
 
I recommend a sealed battery and if you go that route, a Concorde.
 
the more i read the more it looks like concorde is the way to go
 
One of our mechanics had an opinion... Aircraft flies a lot and longer flights, sealed. Aircraft sits for any length of time, regular flooded.

His concern was the recharge rate for the recombinant batteries is slower. He's seen a lot of dead sealed batteries in winter if people let their aircraft sit and only fly them on short hops once a week or similar. They never get time to fully top off.

That's his opinion anyway. We went with flooded just because our last one lasted an amazing 6.5 years and only then started showing signs of weakness.

It is serviced and checked for specific gravity and fluid level every year, though.
 
Anthony said:
I replaced my Tiger's battery with a Gill G25. It is the ONLY battery in which I am able to install, unless I get the paperwork done to install something else.

Check if you need and STC or not.
Click to expand...

I'm not sure if this would apply to your plane or not, but if you look at the entire FAA/PMA Eligibility List you will find the following under "True Flight Holdings LLC" (for the Grumman American line of aircraft):

STC# SA01250WI
CB-25
CB-25XC
RG-25
RG-25XC
RG24-11M
RG24-15M
FAA-PMA Supplement
No. 71, dd 06/04/04

Dave
 
denverpilot said:
One of our mechanics had an opinion... Aircraft flies a lot and longer flights, sealed. Aircraft sits for any length of time, regular flooded.

His concern was the recharge rate for the recombinant batteries is slower. He's seen a lot of dead sealed batteries in winter if people let their aircraft sit and only fly them on short hops once a week or similar. They never get time to fully top off.

That's his opinion anyway. We went with flooded just because our last one lasted an amazing 6.5 years and only then started showing signs of weakness.

It is serviced and checked for specific gravity and fluid level every year, though.
Click to expand...


I have to agree here. I have a lot of dealing with both battery manufactures and I find that for those that are very infrequent fliers, the flooded battery may be the better choice, but if there is some frequent use of the aircraft, a sealed or recombinant gas "RG" battery is a good choice.

In what I've seen, the Gill batteries are mostly used for the flooded batteries and the Concorde is the more popular choice for the sealed RG batteries.
 
fwiw - I *HATED* the bolts used with the Concord battery I used in the Cherokee 140. The battery did a wonderful job of spinning the prop during start, but the bolts are such a PITA. I'll never again use a battery with that kind of bolt instead of the "wingnuts".
 
cessna182b said:
I'm not sure if this would apply to your plane or not, but if you look at the entire FAA/PMA Eligibility List you will find the following under "True Flight Holdings LLC" (for the Grumman American line of aircraft):

STC# SA01250WI
CB-25
CB-25XC
RG-25
RG-25XC
RG24-11M
RG24-15M
FAA-PMA Supplement
No. 71, dd 06/04/04

Dave
Click to expand...
The single type certificate for all the 4-seaters (including the AA-5/5A/5B and AG-5B ) is in TrueFlight's hands. I have an RG-25 in my Tiger, and wouldn't change it for anything except maybe an RG-25XC. First one lasted over five years and 900 hours, and the second one is going strong.
 
CMTowner said:
I have to agree here. I have a lot of dealing with both battery manufactures and I find that for those that are very infrequent fliers, the flooded battery may be the better choice, but if there is some frequent use of the aircraft, a sealed or recombinant gas "RG" battery is a good choice.
Click to expand...

I fly about 75-100 hrs a year, and have had a Concorde in it for about 6 years.

From an airframe protection standpoint, I will never have a flooded battery in my plane again. I want a recombinant gas sealed battery.
Too many people have had acid from the battery boil out and cause serious airframe damage. A few people on the Cherokee Pilots Association has $2k+ repair bills from acid damage (either blocked drains, or acid vapors causing corrosion).
One had a blocked drain, acid ate through the battery box and took out the belly skin and a bulkhead.

In my opinion, in the 21st century there's no reason to have a 1950s tech open box of acid in the back of plane.
 
Bob Noel said:
fwiw - I *HATED* the bolts used with the Concord battery I used in the Cherokee 140. The battery did a wonderful job of spinning the prop during start, but the bolts are such a PITA. I'll never again use a battery with that kind of bolt instead of the "wingnuts".
Click to expand...
If you'd ever had the "wings" break on a wingnut or had the cables get loose because you can't tighten wingnuts reliably you might have a different opinion about wingnuts vs the cap screws ("bolts") Concord uses. IMO cap screws are for airplanes and wingnuts are for lawnmowers.
 
gismo said:
If you'd ever had the "wings" break on a wingnut or had the cables get loose because you can't tighten wingnuts reliably you might have a different opinion about wingnuts vs the cap screws ("bolts") Concord uses. IMO cap screws are for airplanes and wingnuts are for lawnmowers.
Click to expand...
Remove the wing nuts, replace with 5/16 X 20 elastic stop nuts, then coat with a good battery terminal protective coating. and in some installations you will need a plastic cap over the whole terminal, the plug in the battery cells when you receive the battery works well.
 
gismo said:
If you'd ever had the "wings" break on a wingnut or had the cables get loose because you can't tighten wingnuts reliably you might have a different opinion about wingnuts vs the cap screws ("bolts") Concord uses. IMO cap screws are for airplanes and wingnuts are for lawnmowers.
Click to expand...

Maybe my battery box is the only one where the cables don't lie just perfectly so the cap screws go in without risk of ruining the threads. I sooo enjoyed fighting with the cap screws every time. I enjoyed it so much that I said @(#*$& it, and replaced the battery after only two years.

otoh, I've never had a problem with the wingnuts.
 
Ron Levy said:
The single type certificate for all the 4-seaters (including the AA-5/5A/5B and AG-5B ) is in TrueFlight's hands. I have an RG-25 in my Tiger, and wouldn't change it for anything except maybe an RG-25XC. First one lasted over five years and 900 hours, and the second one is going strong.
Click to expand...


What paperwork did you have to file to change from the Gill?
 
PilotAlan said:
I fly about 75-100 hrs a year, and have had a Concorde in it for about 6 years.

From an airframe protection standpoint, I will never have a flooded battery in my plane again. I want a recombinant gas sealed battery.
Too many people have had acid from the battery boil out and cause serious airframe damage. A few people on the Cherokee Pilots Association has $2k+ repair bills from acid damage (either blocked drains, or acid vapors causing corrosion).
One had a blocked drain, acid ate through the battery box and took out the belly skin and a bulkhead.

In my opinion, in the 21st century there's no reason to have a 1950s tech open box of acid in the back of plane.
Click to expand...

Battery boilover is most often due to overfilling the thing. You should only top the electrolyte to the bottom of the ring while the battery is on charge and has been for a while. The gases generated while charging will increase electrolyte volume and it will spill over if it's too full. I always topped them to midway between the plates and the ring if the battery wasn't on charge and never had any spills.

The instructions on this are clear enough in paperwork that comes with a new battery.

Dan
 
Dan Thomas said:
Battery boilover is most often due to overfilling the thing. You should only top the electrolyte to the bottom of the ring while the battery is on charge and has been for a while. The gases generated while charging will increase electrolyte volume and it will spill over if it's too full. I always topped them to midway between the plates and the ring if the battery wasn't on charge and never had any spills.
Click to expand...

I understand that. But acid vapors from charging can accumulate in the battery box, and bad things happen from time to time. Whether it's a shorted battery, or a failed voltage regulator, or whatever else.
I just don't see a reason to have an unsealed box of acid in my battery box. The cost of a failure can be extremely high.
 
Ron Levy said:
You need the STC from Concorde along with the battery, then you need an IA to inspect your installation of the battery and sign/file a 337 on the alteration with the FAA.
http://rgl.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_G...5ce20890b86256f090050c479/$FILE/SA01250WI.pdf
Click to expand...
to add..
the 337 comes with the Battery now. normal routine for pre-approved data, the A&P-IA can approve the return to service on the spot, and send the 337 copies to the FAA at OKC FSDO no longer will except the 337s unless they are field approvals, then they only stamp and sign block 4.

it requires 3 copies now, 1 for the aircraft records, 1 for the FAA, and 1 for the A&P-IA records for their activity sheet for renewal of their IA in March each odd calendar year.
 
PilotAlan said:
I understand that. But acid vapors from charging can accumulate in the battery box, and bad things happen from time to time. Whether it's a shorted battery, or a failed voltage regulator, or whatever else.
I just don't see a reason to have an unsealed box of acid in my battery box. The cost of a failure can be extremely high.
Click to expand...

I've seen a RG sealed lead-acid leak too.

Took one hell of an overcharge to do it, but it blew up nice and round like a pumpkin and made a nice "squeeeeeeee" sound out of the over pressure vent.

Wasn't in an aircraft but was the same tech. Nothing's sealed 100%.

Even RG batteries will vent acid in the scenarios you offered above.

Side-question: The scenarios your friends experienced sound like insurance claims, to me. Did they? Just curious.
 
Tom-D said:
to add..
the 337 comes with the Battery now. normal routine for pre-approved data, the A&P-IA can approve the return to service on the spot, and send the 337 copies to the FAA at OKC FSDO no longer will except the 337s unless they are field approvals, then they only stamp and sign block 4.

it requires 3 copies now, 1 for the aircraft records, 1 for the FAA, and 1 for the A&P-IA records for their activity sheet for renewal of their IA in March each odd calendar year.
Click to expand...

So if I install the Concorde battery as the aircraft owner, the plane is unairworthy until the IA signs off on the installation.

My A&P/IA is at another airport so if I installed the Concorde, and flew it to the IA, then I would be in violation. I'd need to get an IA on my field to sign off.
 
Anthony said:
So if I install the Concorde battery as the aircraft owner, the plane is unairworthy until the IA signs off on the installation.

My A&P/IA is at another airport so if I installed the Concorde, and flew it to the IA, then I would be in violation. I'd need to get an IA on my field to sign off.
Click to expand...
Legally correct. But what you could to to be squeaky clean is put the new battery in the back, fly to the IA, install the battery (five minute job and no tools required in your Tiger), do the log entry for the installation, get it checked and the 337 signed by th IA, and then fly home.
 
Thanks Ron. Yes, I'll do that next time I need a battery. Went the easy route last year, and just did the Gill myself with a logbock entry.
 
Ron Levy said:
Legally correct. But what you could to to be squeaky clean is put the new battery in the back, fly to the IA, install the battery (five minute job and no tools required in your Tiger), do the log entry for the installation, get it checked and the 337 signed by th IA, and then fly home.
Click to expand...

If the battery is bad, how's he going to get it started?
 
Tom-D said:
If the battery is bad, how's he going to get it started?
Click to expand...


I did charge it a few times, and flew the plane. When I realized it woudn't hold the charge, I installed the Gill.
 
denverpilot said:
Side-question: The scenarios your friends experienced sound like insurance claims, to me. Did they? Just curious.
Click to expand...

Depends on the insurance company and your policy. They *could* state that failure to maintain is not an accident.
Kind of like throwing a piston through the cowl. If you land without damage, the cowl damage could be stated as part of the engine failure, as opposed to damage from a forced landing caused by the engine failure.
 
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