Renting sucks

E

evapilotaz

En-Route
Joined
Feb 13, 2012
Messages
2,623
Location
Gilbert AZ. VFR All Year Baby
Display Name
Display name:
Drone airspace abuser
Renting sucks. As I sit here with my 12 year old son waiting for the airplane that suppose to be available 20 minutes ago is not. Plane is sitting there and I cannot get access to the keys.

Sorry for the rant.

Some day plane ownership
 
that sucks. It's one of those things that helps to justify ownership. Renting is less costly 99% of the time, but knowing it's available any time you want it makes ownership worth it to me.
 
Renting has been great for me. I guess it all depends on the flight school and renters. Every time I've needed a plane whether during business hours or after hours, the plane and keys were always available
 
That's why I like the club I belong to. We all have a key that opens most all of the planes, and I've yet to have anyone be more than a couple minutes late bringing one back.
 
You might want to look into joining a club,if not interested in owning. Renting can get frustrating.
 
When I started back up after 30 yrs., I rented for about six months. I took the family for a quick trip to an airport 63 miles away. The bill for renting a crappy C-172 plus overpriced fuel came to $214. At that moment I knew that I had to get my own plane or stop flying. The owner of the FBO tried to disuade me by telling me that 100/yr was the break even point. Even knowing as little as I did, I knew that a plane would not cost me $11,400/ year to operate. I sold the powerboat and started looking. It took about seven months before I found a low time Warrior for under $30K. Along the way I found a freelance AP/AI. He was invaluable. He helped evaluate candidate aircraft and did the prebuy. He will do an owner assisted annual for $400. Hanger rent, ins., maintenance plus a couple hours of gas runs about $300/month. I never worry about when to get the plane back. When I want to go flying, it is always there. There is no minimum daily charge. I can be gone for weeks at a time and it doesn't matter. But, honestly, I do worry about maintenance but my AP gives me a lot of free wisdom that helps a lot. I did some upgrades to the panel, to work on my IR. But that too can be done for a lot less than conventional wisdom suggests. So far it has worked out. A nice Cherokee can be had for under $20K. Out in the mountains I would suggest a 180 hp., but that is certainly not a requirement. You would be surprised at what can be had for the price of a car. Get something that will burn Mogas.

Plane ownership is certainly doable for the middle class. Find an AP that will work with you. Involve youself in the care and maintenance of your airplane
 
Last edited:
Morgan3820 said:
When I started back up after 30 yrs., I rented for about six months. I took the family for a quick trip to an airport 63 miles away. The bill for renting a crappy C-172 plus overpriced fuel came to $214. At that moment I knew that I had to get my own plane or stop flying. The owner of the FBO tried to disuade me by telling me that 100/yr was the break even point. Even knowing as little as I did, I knew that a plane would not cost me $11,400/ year to operate. I sold the powerboat and started looking. It took about seven months before I found a low time Warrior for under $30K. Along the way I found a freelance AP/AI. He was invaluable. He helped evaluate candidate aircraft and did the prebuy. He will do an owner assisted annual for $400. Hanger rent, ins., maintenance plus a couple hours of gas runs about $300/month. I never worry about when to get the plane back. When I want to go flying, it is always there. There is no minimum daily charge. I can be gone for weeks at a time and it doesn't matter. But, honestly, I do worry about maintenance but my AP gives me a lot of free wisdom that helps a lot. I did some upgrades to the panel, to work on my IR. But that too can be done for a lot less than conventional wisdom suggests. So far it has worked out. A nice Cherokee can be had for under $20K. Out in the mountains I would suggest a 180 hp., but that is certainly not a requirement. You would be surprised at what can be had for the price of a car. Get something that will burn Mogas.

Plane ownership is certainly doable for the middle class. Find an AP that will work with you. Involve youself in the care and maintenance of your airplane
Click to expand...

This gentleman knows whereof he speaks. I would also add that, because of owning planes, I've met some of the greatest people in the world. Not to say that there aren't some Obama-holes, but just ignore them. :yes:
 
Morgan3820 said:
When I started back up after 30 yrs., I rented for about six months. I took the family for a quick trip to an airport 63 miles away. The bill for renting a crappy C-172 plus overpriced fuel came to $214. At that moment I knew that I had to get my own plane or stop flying. The owner of the FBO tried to disuade me by telling me that 100/yr was the break even point. Even knowing as little as I did, I knew that a plane would not cost me $11,400/ year to operate. I sold the powerboat and started looking. It took about seven months before I found a low time Warrior for under $30K. Along the way I found a freelance AP/AI. He was invaluable. He helped evaluate candidate aircraft and did the prebuy. He will do an owner assisted annual for $400. Hanger rent, ins., maintenance plus a couple hours of gas runs about $300/month. I never worry about when to get the plane back. When I want to go flying, it is always there. There is no minimum daily charge. I can be gone for weeks at a time and it doesn't matter. But, honestly, I do worry about maintenance but my AP gives me a lot of free wisdom that helps a lot. I did some upgrades to the panel, to work on my IR. But that too can be done for a lot less than conventional wisdom suggests. So far it has worked out. A nice Cherokee can be had for under $20K. Out in the mountains I would suggest a 180 hp., but that is certainly not a requirement. You would be surprised at what can be had for the price of a car. Get something that will burn Mogas.

Plane ownership is certainly doable for the middle class. Find an AP that will work with you. Involve youself in the care and maintenance of your airplane
Click to expand...

The only thing I can add to this is a good partner makes even more affordable.
 
When I was renting before buying my plane, I had no major issues, just ended up buying because by the time I had my CPL I much as well have bought a plane.
 
Availability (or lack thereof) and the RON-charge rules and restrictions are a MAJOR cause of folk tossing their certs.

(( And to imagine --- 50-60 years ago, the typical FBO ramp looked like a car dealer lot [prolly cause the typical FBO was a dealer for Cessna, Piper, Mooney, or ...] and planes [usually NEW] were ALWAYS available. So much for TBT ))

// BTW === Happy Pi Day //
 
Since I don't own, I have to rent. So I can't entirely join the 'renting sux' club, but it still kinda does.
 
I don't fly as much as I'd like because of the size of the rental fleet in the area. Most of the rentals are unavailable because of active flight training and the others are running way on the high side of my budget.

I'm on a waiting list for two clubs but I think I'm pretty far from the top. I've been toying with the idea of starting my own club but I will admit that I'm a little nervous without having people signed up and ready to fly.

Anybody looking for a non equity partner?
 
I've been waiting for a 172XP to return for a week now so I can finish my high performance stuff.

Supposed to finish it up last Friday, but the plane wasn't back. Was gonna be back on Monday, then Tuesday, then Thursday, then "I'll let you know when it comes back."
 
Morgan3820 said:
Along the way I found a freelance AP/AI. He was invaluable. He helped evaluate candidate aircraft and did the prebuy. He will do an owner assisted annual for $400. Hanger rent, ins., maintenance plus a couple hours of gas runs about $300/month.

Plane ownership is certainly doable for the middle class. Find an AP that will work with you. Involve youself in the care and maintenance of your airplane
Click to expand...

Any ideas on the best way to find an AP/AI? I am in much the same situation as David and have started browsing for planes. (See "Edsel" under Maintenance Bay.)
 
The guy I rent from is very accommodating but there are still times when I want the plane when he is giving lessons or I have to fly later or earlier than I want. Also while he will go over and open the hanger for me most anytime I still have to call it sure would be so nice if I could just go. Other than a Tomahawk this is the only rental (172) that is less than an hour away (35-40 minutes).

Used to belong to a club that I could just take the plane and leave a check when I was done. Miss that.

Some day I hope to have my own plane for this very reason.
 
DrPappy said:
Any ideas on the best way to find an AP/AI? I am in much the same situation as David and have started browsing for planes. (See "Edsel" under Maintenance Bay.)
Click to expand...

Ask around the airport. I found mine because the guy in the hangar across from me uses him on his Baron and Decathlon. He's great, gets stuff done and lets you be involved as much as you want. To me one of the best things about owning a plane is learning about it.
 
I need to sell the boat lol.

Son and I waited an hour for the fbo owner to arrive with key. We gave up and went home. My son was in tears. He loves to fly.
 
jordane93 said:
Renting has been great for me. I guess it all depends on the flight school and renters. Every time I've needed a plane whether during business hours or after hours, the plane and keys were always available
Click to expand...

I agree, obviously it does have its ups and downs, but for the most part I find it nice. All renters at the airport I go to have 24hr access to the hangar and keys which makes it nice. Only frustrating part can be when you would like to fly a certain plane and someone else already has it, but its to be expected.
 
dillardrg said:
The only thing I can add to this is a good partner makes even more affordable.
Click to expand...

I looked really hard for a partner, but to no avail. Since I am now a member of the owners club, so to speak, I began getting offers to partner. I think that Purchasing an plane shows the other pilots that you are for real and are not just another wannabe.
 
evapilotaz said:
I need to sell the boat lol.

Son and I waited an hour for the fbo owner to arrive with key. We gave up and went home. My son was in tears. He loves to fly.
Click to expand...

Most FBOs will not stay in business with this type of service.

Either that or he really did not want to rent to you, and he's trying to drive you away.
 
I feel this right now. Beautiful day and I drove halfway to the airport only to get a phone call from the flight school's A&P about the plane I had scheduled. I was really thankful for the call but the whole drive home I was thinking about how my own plane would be so much nicer because I would be able to fly whenever I wanted! Then I remembered that even if I owned a plane it could be down for maintenence too. I still want my own plane though!
 
BillTIZ said:
Most FBOs will not stay in business with this type of service.

Either that or he really did not want to rent to you, and he's trying to drive you away.
Click to expand...

I will chalk this up to a one time incident. I talked to the owner and he apologized a few times. the power of the internet I can really hurt his business.
 
evapilotaz said:
I will chalk this up to a one time incident. I talked to the owner and he apologized a few times. the power of the internet I can really hurt his business.
Click to expand...
If you fly a lot it might make good sense to own. It's mostly a matter of personal priorities really, like sacrifice in other areas. For instance some folks feel the need to drive a new car every few years, my newest "car" is a 1986 Ford F150 pickup.
 
It doesn't have to cost a fortune to own a plane. Find a group looking for a 3rd or 4th Partner. I'm in a 4-way on a Cherokee 235 and have almost 200 hours in the plane in the last 2.5 years...did all but the first 5 hours of my PPL in it.

Over the last 2.5 years I figured it's probably cost me about $140/hr total to own the plane and that includes amortizing my 1/4 stake in the plane. The cost just keeps going down the longer I maintain ownership/fly.

After the initial outlay in cash - it costs me a grand total of $93/month to have an IFR ready airplane in a hangar waiting for me to fly it anytime I want 25 minutes away. (hangar fee, insurance, etc...)

With current gas prices it costs me about $50/hr in gas plus we pay $15/hr into the TBO fund. So, I basically pay $65/hr to fly. In a 4-way the annuals and any regular maintenance that comes up is totally doable. We each came out of pocket for a grand total of $400 for the annual last year.

When I did the rough math on it - it was a little more expensive for the first 1.5 years to buy into a partnership than just renting outright...but after 2.5 years in it's working in my favor now...and I fly a better equipped/faster airplane that what my local school is willing to rent out.

There have been so many days in the last year and half that I have just decided to go fly...and 15 minutes later I've got my flight back packed and I'm walking out the door. If I'm going to make a $10k investment in training to be able to do that...I don't want to have to sit at the hangar staring at the sky and my watch waiting for someone to return a plane that I know little to nothing about it's quirks/history.

Hope you get your someday - make it work...it's worth it!
 
Right now renting is working out rather well for me. I rent the Arrow III at my FBO for $160 an hour and it is almost always available. Nice avionics package and in excellent condition. I would need to fly a lot just to break even if I decided to buy the same plane.

That being said, when I was flying a 172, scheduling could be difficult even with 4 of them for rent, especially if you wanted the one with the 180hp conversion. If I had planned on sticking with that aircraft type, it might of made sense to look into purchasing instead of constantly dealing with availability issues. Especially considering how many of them are on the market.

Partnerships are a great alternative but it needs to be an aircraft that you want. I have the opportunity to buy into a 1/5 share in a 182Q. 3 of the existing members don't fly right now, so the plane is almost always available. However it needs some serious avionics updates and a paint job. Will the guys that are not flying be willing to put money into the plane for these upgrades and any future ones? Also, they appear to have an inflated view of what their plane is worth although that just may be a negotiating tactic. ….and in the end, I don't think a 182 is really what I want as it's not much of a step up speed wise from the Arrow and not nearly as nicely equipped. In a perfect world, I would want to find 1/3 or 1/4 membership in a nice Mooney M20J or K. That would convert me from a renter is a hurry. :yes:
 
Last edited:
DrPappy said:
Any ideas on the best way to find an AP/AI? I am in much the same situation as David and have started browsing for planes. (See "Edsel" under Maintenance Bay.)
Click to expand...

Are you going to be based out of Hooks? If so I know a good AP/IA.
 
I am in a club, so I have a set of keys, so some of the above gripes dont apply to me. But renting does hurt sometimes. I was the last person to fly over the previous weekend and the plane sat outside. Someone went to fly the plane this weekend and the tire was flat. So they didnt out and accuse me, but the tone of the emails were that I did it and didnt report it.
Or things that I would like fixed (door lock, 12V power outlet, etc) wont get fixed or looked at until annual. Or that the plane is tied out all winter long..

I know ownership isnt perfect, but the freedom to make choices about the plane would be nice.
 
That's why I'm set up and checked out to rent from multiple suppliers. I don't usually care what it is when I'm renting, I just need an airplane, as long as I can find one available, that's fine. However, that doesn't make renting suck any less from the other reasons rental sucks. :lol:
 
Henning said:
That's why I'm set up and checked out to rent from multiple suppliers. I don't usually care what it is when I'm renting, I just need an airplane, as long as I can find one available, that's fine. However, that doesn't make renting suck any less from the other reasons rental sucks. :lol:
Click to expand...

The problem with that is that you have to pay the "you didn't spend enough money with us last month, you have to fly with the CFI again before you can use the plane" fee for a bunch of different FBOs.
 
bigred177 said:
The problem with that is that you have to pay the "you didn't spend enough money with us last month, you have to fly with the CFI again before you can use the plane" fee for a bunch of different FBOs.
Click to expand...

No, I'm selective of who I deal with on that. The people I use, as long as I'm legal, I can take the plane. I've had long enough relationships with all of them and they know they might not see me but every couple of years, and then might use the plane a week straight.
 
You're extremely lucky. My F-16 instructor buddy still has to do a checkout with every FBO that is anywhere close to local. I reckon he knows how to handle the C-150 just fine.
 
bigred177 said:
You're extremely lucky. My F-16 instructor buddy still has to do a checkout with every FBO that is anywhere close to local. I reckon he knows how to handle the C-150 just fine.
Click to expand...

Yeah, it depends who is in the area. Here in SoFL there is enough competition and crappy aircraft, that you can find guys who will give you an initial check out, understand that you know how to fly planes, that they won't turn down making a dollar on you when they know I'll go elsewhere if they wanted me to check out every 6 months. There are certainly operators here who do that, I just don't typically rent from them. If I was in a market with no choice, yeah, then I'm screwed. Most of the time a check out is only .5-.6 anyway.
 
I've seen the whole gamut of FBOs.
One FBO checked me out in the most complex Cessna he had and signed off the fleet for me to fly. Another, wanted a checkout in every different model I wanted to fly. I only did a couple different models for flexibility. I showed up once to fly and he needed the big complex for a scenic flight, but I had it booked. The other I was checked out in was down for maintenance.

He offered me a third model, I commented, not checked out by your rules, I'll take the one I've reserved. I got "that look" with the keys to the third model pushed across the desk. I picked up the keys and went flying. When I got back, I commented, I guess that means I can rent any plane in the fleet. He never challenged me again.

Another FBO, over 90 days at that FBO and they wanted another checkout. I did not stay with them for long. And another, even though I had flown there within the last 90 days, not that particular M/M, so he wanted another checkout. See ya.
 
evapilotaz said:
Renting sucks. As I sit here with my 12 year old son waiting for the airplane that suppose to be available 20 minutes ago is not. Plane is sitting there and I cannot get access to the keys.
Click to expand...

Hand-prop it :yesnod:
 
bigred177 said:
You're extremely lucky. My F-16 instructor buddy still has to do a checkout with every FBO that is anywhere close to local. I reckon he knows how to handle the C-150 just fine.
Click to expand...

I'm the same way as iHenning with my FBO.

The owner trained me, knows my skill level well, and doesn't make me do checkouts if I miss the technically 60 day checkout rule. I was flying with a club for a while. Went back to my original FBO four months later to take a flight, he saw I'd been flying a Warrior somewhere else in my logbook, and didn't require another checkout in his Cherokee.

It's nice when guys are flexible like that.
 
Last edited:
when FBOs want checkouts (every 6 months for example), is that if you haven't flown their plane during that time? or is the checkout regardless of how often you've flown their plane?
 
evapilotaz said:
Doesn't the master switch need to be turned on?
Click to expand...

Master switch, no, magnetos yes.

If it's a fuel injected bird you'll need power to prime or there's likely no chance in hell it will fire by hand.

All of that said, many rental companies will be pretty upset if they see a renter hand propping...for various reasons.
 
rbridges said:
when FBOs want checkouts (every 6 months for example), is that if you haven't flown their plane during that time? or is the checkout regardless of how often you've flown their plane?
Click to expand...

Typically if it's more than x time since last time there.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top