Rental Pilot vs. Ownership

Since I work M-F I’d most likely be agreeable to splitting ownership with someone who mostly flies during the week. I’m not really sure how to find such people at your location though. Lots of asking around I guess.
 
EdFred said:
My dad and I were going to partner up way back when, but realized the plane only gets used on weekends/long weekends, and we weren't going to get into a "but I wanted the plane that weekend" every damn weekend.

Best partnership would be if all parties are retired and weekends can be any two days of the week, or one works M-F and the other Th-M, or one just wants to pop around on a Tuesday evening and never go anywhere. But when you all have the same work schedule and a travel plane, it ain't gonna work - at least not for me where a lot of trips are last minute because I get a call on Thursday, "what are you doing this weekend?"
Click to expand...

That can be a problem, but in my experience it's less of a problem that most people think. Everyone's situation is different though. If one does a lot of last minute trips, then it can be a challenge. I've been in three partnerships for planes, all traveling planes, and largely we all worked M-F. In one group of four pilots we had two weekend conflicts in 4.5 years. In another with 3 pilots we had zero in 2.5 years. In my current partnership we had one scheduling conflict. All of them got resolved, but yeah, not as easy as when you solely own the plane.

There always seemed to be at least one member that wasn't flying much at a time. Workloads, family commitments or something.

My wife and I are planners. We plan well ahead, so with an open reservation system we typically get the plane reserved when we want to travel. Now that she's retired, some of our friends are retired and I'm about to retire that may change. Case in point we have friends down on the Panhandle for three weeks and they asked us to come join them. The one week we're open the plane is booked. So, the plane's schedule is less of a hindrance than our schedule; the plane is available the two weekends we already have other plans.

I can see where in retirement we may want to travel even more, so I may want to shift in the not too distant future to a 2 person partnership (currently 3 members) or maybe even sole ownership.
 
Rgbeard said:
I decided to sit down and create a chart of my flight time.

I created this because, although I know aircraft ownership is a big step in financial commitment, it certainly changes how much you fly. I thought showing it in a chart would be something helpful for some. If you are finding yourself "on the fence" of a rental vs. ownership decision, I simply ask you to take a look at my chart.

From 19xx-1995 I flew a lot with my dad in his Cessna 120, Cherokee 140, and later, his 1979 Turbo Lance. But he took the PIC time, and I simply gained tons of non-logged experience. I'm glad I had this time, as it carried me through the "dark years" where I flew ZERO hours. Each year has a particular reason for being zero. (2003, 2009, 2010)

In 1984 I had my first lesson, but began my PPL in earnest in December 1989.

In August of 2016 I began my Instrument rating, but had to take several months off for a medical issue, and finished it in March of 2017.

In September, 2018, we bought our own 1978 Turbo Lance, and it's been a transformation to be an aircraft owner vs. a rental pilot.

My summary opinion: As a rental pilot, you generally won't fly much. As an aircraft owner, you'll fly more than you would imagine.View attachment 104781
Click to expand...

Sweet graph. I've been thinking a lot about it these years.

It is a never ending debate. Aviation is expensive, period. It will cost you all the money that you have and all the money that you don't have yet.

So it all comes down to your cashflow. If you have a fixed income, say salary, then you need your aviation expense to be a fixed cost too (keep renting). Just budget the hourly rate and you're done. No payments for tie down/hangar, fuel, insurance, annuals, overhauls, etc.

People tend to think that owning will be cheaper because you get rid of the rental rate, right?. Now I own the plane and I just need to pay for tie down/hangar, fuel and Insurance. WRONG! You still need to provision the hourly amount you were paying for renting (or some % of it) so the annual or overhaul bills won't kill your cashflow in the future. I've seen so many cases of people getting an invoice that they can't pay because they spend all their money (or the bank's) buying the plane in the first place.

Unless money isn't a problem for you, it all comes down to getting a second income stream to pay for your aviation expenses, join a flight club or look for additional partners to share the costs of owning. I'm working on getting a second stream but for the moment I'm still renting.
 
Hector Parra said:
Now I own the plane and I just need to pay for tie down/hangar, fuel and Insurance. WRONG! You still need to provision the hourly amount you were paying for renting (or some % of it) so the annual or overhaul bills won't kill your cashflow in the future.
Click to expand...

Except you don't. How's that $10/hr engine reserve working for you when the engine grenades on you in 100 hours after purchase? Rough numbers is that in the 13 years I've had the Comanche, renting one would be about $100/hr over my hourly cost - and that hourly cost is every penny attributed to the airplane without this stupid idea of "reserves". I've saved 2-3 engines worth of engine grenades in owning vs the difference of renting an equivalent plane.
 
Last edited:
EdFred said:
Except you don't. How's that $10/hr engine reserve working for you when the engine grenades on you in 100 hours after purchase?
Click to expand...
At least marginally better than if you chose not to budget $10/hr for an engine reserve.
 
EdFred said:
Except you don't. How's that $10/hr engine reserve working for you when the engine grenades on you in 100 hours after purchase? Rough numbers is that in the 13 years I've had the Comanche, renting one would be about $100/hr over my hourly cost - and that hourly cost is every penny attributed to the airplane without this stupid idea of "reserves". I've saved 2-3 engines worth of engine grenades in owning vs the difference of renting an equivalent plane.
Click to expand...
Agree. Not really ranting against owning. I'll go that way once it makes financial sense to me, also when I start flying more often. I have two toddlers, so I only fly around 35-40 hours a year. I just don't want folks doing quick math with half the picture. Because the seller will always tell you that owning is better :)
 
RyanB said:
At least marginally better than if you chose not to budget $10/hr for an engine reserve.
Click to expand...

Just like housing, don't buy at the top of your limit. I bought a house that was between 1/3 and 1/4 what they said I qualified for and I paid it off in less than the number of finger I have in years. Got $x for a plane? Make the purchase price of said plane $x - catastrophe.
 
Hector Parra said:
Agree. Not really ranting against owning. I'll go that way once it makes financial sense to me, also when I start flying more often. I have two toddlers, so I only fly around 35-40 hours a year. I just don't want folks doing quick math with half the picture. Because the seller will always tell you that buying is better :)
Click to expand...

At 35-40 renting still puts you way ahead. But there is a breakeven/ahead point depending on the plane and the hours flown. And some planes aren't even available for rent within 500 miles.
 
EdFred said:
At 35-40 renting still puts you way ahead. But there is a breakeven/ahead point depending on the plane and the hours flown. And some planes aren't even available for rent within 500 miles.
Click to expand...

I'm up in Canada so it is almost CAD$200 (around $160USD) an hour for a C172. At that rate and with our current income is still hard to convince the family CFO -aka wife- to buy a plane.
 
Hector Parra said:
I'm up in Canada so it is almost CAD$200 (around $160USD) an hour for a C172. At that rate and with our current income is still hard to convince the family CFO -aka wife- to buy a plane.
Click to expand...

They rent for more than that around here. A few years ago you could find a 172 for $130 an hour, but I suspect those days are gone.

I don't have any statistics to back this up, but it's been my observation that pilots who are renting trainer type aircraft from the local FBO have a tendency to fall out of aviation. It seems to me those that have a partnership, ownership, or club membership do much better. I suspect if you're renting something that the flight school doesn't use, the availability and quality of experience is better.
 
FormerHangie said:
They rent for more than that around here. A few years ago you could find a 172 for $130 an hour, but I suspect those days are gone.

I don't have any statistics to back this up, but it's been my observation that pilots who are renting trainer type aircraft from the local FBO have a tendency to fall out of aviation. It seems to me those that have a partnership, ownership, or club membership do much better. I suspect if you're renting something that the flight school doesn't use, the availability and quality of experience is better.
Click to expand...

That's a good point there. There's a C152 and an Aerobat who aren't as desired as the C172. I'll give it a try
 
I have done 3 of the options. Rented, rented from a club, and owned. None were perfect, but owning was the best for me. The flexibility was great obviously. But it was the pride of ownership. Doing upgrades and doing repairs to my level were great. And being able to take time to sit in the plane and learn each nuance of the plane. Reading and watching to get more information about your specific plane. That was the defining point for me.

It does seem like a lot of rental places near me are going with 90 or 180 day flight checks with the chief pilot now. So, every 3 to 6 months or annually, you have to fly with the chief pilot to be able to keep renting the plane.

Rented from a school- I felt like a bank account, with little input or information. Hey, I had the Archer on the schedule for rent this weekend, but I dont see it on the ramp. Oh, there was another plane that was left due to weather in another state, so we sent that down to get it. So, email or calls arent needed?

Rented from a club- you get to learn the fellow pilots more, but still not your plane. - Email sent out- the owner of the plane has sold it on Wednesday. The owner is taking the new owner for a introduction flight on Thursday. I asked when the plane will be pulled from rentals as I had a long weekend planned and paid for on that Friday- Monday. No response. The plane and all future rentals were gone.

Owner- We cannot get the part for the battery box (2018). We cannot sign off on it until we do. 4 months later... All while making payments on the plane, hangar and insurance.
 
asicer said:
Since you started logging flights when you were 13-14, you must have had an eye on an aviation career back then?
Click to expand...

I would have signed up for fighter pilot if I could have gotten some level of certainty that I could get there (performance-permitting of course) but the recruiters weren't willing to give me any real confidence. Other than that, I never really planned to be a pro pilot. I just liked airplanes since I was a toddler, had pestered my parents since I was 4 to let me learn to fly and eventually they just relented and got me some flying lessons. My peak aviation aspiration as a teenager was to one day own a Piper Archer.
 
Nothing about flying is economically justifiable.

Getting a seat on a Commercial airliner is cheaper than renting
Renting is cheaper than owning
Owning - of the three - is the most expensive, but gives you the convenience, flexibility, etc.
 
WDD said:
Nothing about flying is economically justifiable.

Getting a seat on a Commercial airliner is cheaper than renting
Renting is cheaper than owning
Owning - of the three - is the most expensive, but gives you the convenience, flexibility, etc.
Click to expand...

As a financial means to get from A to B - you’re 100% correct. As an investment in one’s own happiness it can be priceless. Depends on the person!
 
For me, ownership is a no brainer. It's not more economical than renting, at least not for me. I fly about 60 hours per year on average. Maybe more if I ever make it through a year without significant MX downtime lol. Probably also more once I start spending winters in Florida instead of Canada. Some weeks are just so damn cold up here, it makes no sense to go flying.

Having said that, owning is still a no-brainer for me because the simplicity of hopping on the plane at a moment's notice without scheduling issues is priceless to me. Also knowing that my a** is the only a** sweating into the pilot seat is priceless. Occasionally I use the plane to fly to conferences or business meetings or vacation being away from base for a week or longer, something most rentals wouldn't allow. I can take my dog on flights without no complaints from other owners or renters who are allergic to dogs. I don't have to wait for someone who returns the plane late. If I don't feel like cleaning out the trash after a long day in the air, I leave my trash on the plane and go back the next day to clean it out. So, long story short, I'm just way more flexible and less restricted.

Yes, I'm definitely paying more than if I rented, 100%, but I'm paying for all the conveniences above.

Quick example where ownership REALLY paid off big time: I was scheduled for a check ride at the end of December. I kept an eye on the weather forecast and noticed that the long term forecast later that month was WAAAAAY too cold to fly and my check ride would most likely get cancelled, pushing it into the new year. But, I saw a nice, 30F day, with plenty of sunshine in the middle of December. I called up the examiner, told him about it, he called my CFI asking if he thinks I'm ready (which he thought I was) and the examiner was able to squeeze me in on that day. If I had not my own plane, I could have not taken advantage of this opening because none of the planes at my school were available. But since I had my own plane, I hopped in it, flew to the examiner, took the check ride, passed it, flew back home and all was good. Sure enough, the day I was originally scheduled was -15F and it stayed that cold for three weeks straight.
 
WDD said:
Nothing about flying is economically justifiable.

Getting a seat on a Commercial airliner is cheaper than renting
Renting is cheaper than owning
Owning - of the three - is the most expensive, but gives you the convenience, flexibility, etc.
Click to expand...
Depends on destiantion and frequency. It's absolutely NOT cheaper to rent or commercial to my most frequent destinations.
 
RudyP said:
As a financial means to get from A to B - you’re 100% correct. As an investment in one’s own happiness it can be priceless. Depends on the person!
Click to expand...
Exactly!
 
EdFred said:
Depends on destiantion and frequency. It's absolutely NOT cheaper to rent or commercial to my most frequent destinations.
Click to expand...
I think you are right. Economic justification depends on circumstances. I've known people who used their light aircraft for regional business. Multiple site visits in a single day, transportation on their own schedule (something virtually impossible commercially), access to underserved locations.
 
EdFred said:
Depends on destiantion and frequency. It's absolutely NOT cheaper to rent or commercial to my most frequent destinations.
Click to expand...

And number of people going.

Back when the kids were at home we regularly took trips that were cheaper in a SR22 than on the airlines, even compared to Economy/Main Cabin seats. Now that it's just my wife and I it's more about convenience, but often the cost is nearly the same as Comfort+ seats; I really don't like riding in steerage. For regional travel it's generally faster flying private for us.
 
I think a great combo is own and be in a club.. I own a vintage two seat taildragger which I love! But I kept my membership in a 12 person club with a nice 180hp 172. The aircraft I own is simple to maintain, fun and cheap to fly. But I also have access to a larger more capable aircraft too. It’s a very economical option to be able to fly a lot.
 
WDD said:
Nothing about flying is economically justifiable.

Getting a seat on a Commercial airliner is cheaper than renting
Renting is cheaper than owning
Owning - of the three - is the most expensive, but gives you the convenience, flexibility, etc.
Click to expand...

Renting is NOT cheaper than owning if you actually use it to travel, because if I fly 3 hours and then 3 hours back but stay for a week, as an owner that’s just 6 hours of fuel, as a rental there’s a minimum amount hours per day (usually ~4 hours) so that’ll cost you 28 hours of rental time. Doesn’t take too many cross country trips to make owning cheaper.
If just making $100 hamburger runs, then yes, I would just rent.
 
MooneyDriver78 said:
Renting is NOT cheaper than owning if you actually use it to travel, because if I fly 3 hours and then 3 hours back but stay for a week, as an owner that’s just 6 hours of fuel, as a rental there’s a minimum amount hours per day (usually ~4 hours) so that’ll cost you 28 hours of rental time. Doesn’t take too many cross country trips to make owning cheaper.
If just making $100 hamburger runs, then yes, I would just rent.
Click to expand...

Wow, 4 hr/day minimum? :eek: Yikes. I was in a "club" (i.e. school with a fleet they would rent) that had a 3 hr/day minimum and wet rates. :( Moved to a club with a 2 hr/day minimum and dry rates. That was quite a bit better.

The longer you want to stay somewhere on the trip the more those minimums hurt, especially a wet rate. Not fun paying for fuel you aren't burning. :mad:

Owning in a small partnership means fewer people flying, so the plane isn't typically booked as much; although most partnerships I've been in the group flies quite a bit so they make up for the lack of members. Owning solely means it's always available for you, outside of mx issues. There's value in availability. :cool:
 
MooneyDriver78 said:
Renting is NOT cheaper than owning if you actually use it to travel, because if I fly 3 hours and then 3 hours back but stay for a week, as an owner that’s just 6 hours of fuel, as a rental there’s a minimum amount hours per day (usually ~4 hours) so that’ll cost you 28 hours of rental time. Doesn’t take too many cross country trips to make owning cheaper.
If just making $100 hamburger runs, then yes, I would just rent.
Click to expand...


I regret that I can only hit one LIKE for this post.

My goal for starting the thread is simply to set some understanding for those new to aviation or on-the-fence on popping for a plane.

As a renter you generally have serious limits on using the aircraft for real travel. Time limits and hours/day requirements get in the way of many overnight trips and nearly prohibits a week-long vacation travel agenda.

Money wouldn’t buy us the airline tickets for us to travel the way my wife and I like to travel to see family in the Midwest.

CA75F58E-7986-4E88-8213-F47D0434C1EB.jpeg
 
Rgbeard said:
I regret that I can only hit one LIKE for this post.

My goal for starting the thread is simply to set some understanding for those new to aviation or on-the-fence on popping for a plane.

As a renter you generally have serious limits on using the aircraft for real travel. Time limits and hours/day requirements get in the way of many overnight trips and nearly prohibits a week-long vacation travel agenda.

Money wouldn’t buy us the airline tickets for us to travel the way my wife and I like to travel to see family in the Midwest.

View attachment 104867
Click to expand...

YOU DON"T HAVE YOUR LIQUIDS IN A 1QT BAG!!!!! ZOMG!!!!!
 
Rgbeard said:
I regret that I can only hit one LIKE for this post.

My goal for starting the thread is simply to set some understanding for those new to aviation or on-the-fence on popping for a plane.

As a renter you generally have serious limits on using the aircraft for real travel. Time limits and hours/day requirements get in the way of many overnight trips and nearly prohibits a week-long vacation travel agenda.

Money wouldn’t buy us the airline tickets for us to travel the way my wife and I like to travel to see family in the Midwest.

View attachment 104867
Click to expand...
I didn’t get into ability to carry luggage the way you want, like open bags, golf clubs, food, pets, firearms, etc. I take this for granted now.
 
Rgbeard living the dream

I assume you have a commercial license and a cargo operator permit?
 
WDD said:
Rgbeard living the dream

I assume you have a commercial license and a cargo operator permit?
Click to expand...

Why would someone need a cargo operator permit and commercial for taking their own stuff in their own plane between houses (or on vacation)?
 
That pic reminds me that it's been awhile since I watched Spaceballs the movie :D
 
  • Like
Reactions: WDD
EdFred said:
Why would someone need a cargo operator permit and commercial for taking their own stuff in their own plane between houses (or on vacation)?
Click to expand...
- Humor: the picture he showed has a lot of luggage. To some referring it as “cargo” could be funny. That there was so much “cargo” that he needed to be classified as a “cargo operator” might also be seen as humorous.

Carry on-
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top