Rental 310 Pricing

Henning said:
I think between the augmentors and the Tuna tanks lies 5 knots.
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I'm still trying to get out the trends with altitude for a naturally aspirated plane. The one I fly is pretty steady in its TAS until about 11k (IAS goes down), and what I'd expect for something with its power and wing design. Your increase in TAS is the sort of thing I'd expect on a turbocharged plane.
 
Ted DuPuis said:
I'm still trying to get out the trends with altitude for a naturally aspirated plane. The one I fly is pretty steady in its TAS until about 11k (IAS goes down), and what I'd expect for something with its power and wing design. Your increase in TAS is the sort of thing I'd expect on a turbocharged plane.
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You're on the right track since it's not a power issue because we have a fixed LOP fuel flow, so for the same minimum fuel flow, equivalent aircraft will go the same speed. The answer has to lie in drag, and the three known increases in drag on the 310 are the swept tail, the change to the nacelle and underwing exhaust and the change from Tuna Tanks to the stabilizer tanks. We both have the same tail, so the answer has to be between the augmentors and the tanks.
 
Ted DuPuis said:
I'm still trying to get out the trends with altitude for a naturally aspirated plane. The one I fly is pretty steady in its TAS until about 11k (IAS goes down), and what I'd expect for something with its power and wing design. Your increase in TAS is the sort of thing I'd expect on a turbocharged plane.
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Just curious, does your 310 have wing deice boots? If so the 310 has about a 5 knot airspeed loss with them installed.
 
Rotor&Wing said:
Just curious, does your 310 have wing deice boots? If so the 310 has about a 5 knot airspeed loss with them installed.
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That probably has to do with part of it. Yes, the plane has wing and horizontal tail deice boots.
 
Rotor&Wing said:
Check rigging of trim tabs and flight controls also, plus also check gear doors for full closure when retracted on jacks.

A little here and there adds up.
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Will do. It's due for 100-hour in another 25 hours. The extra power in some ways is a crutch, since it will tend to mask drag issues, so we'll see if we find anything.
 
Henning said:
I have a clean smooth airframe with decent paint.
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Ok, it's adding up a bit better now. The boots, tanks, and exhaust probably do most of it. And at the next 100-hour I'll give another look at rigging and the gear doors.

The clean, smooth airframe would be nice (on both the 310 and Aztec), but the de-ice is nicer up here in the north. :)
 
Wouldn't it be necessary to calibrate (or compare) IAS and other gage settings before drawing any conclusions about relative speed between/among various airplanes?
 
wabower said:
Wouldn't it be necessary to calibrate (or compare) IAS and other gage settings before drawing any conclusions about relative speed between/among various airplanes?
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Wait, you mean that speed gauge is supposed to work? I guess they really mean it when there's a red sock that says "REMOVE BEFORE FLIGHT" on it... ;)

Good point.
 
I ended up going with the Grumman GA-7 instead of the 310. Lower cost, IFR instead of VFR avionics, and much easier to get insurance. I am renting it from Aviation Adventures in Leesburg, VA and after completing a 4.5 hour VFR/IFR checkout with there chief pilot, I am on there insurance. I also was able to get renters insurance from Avemco that covers single engine and multi engine aircraft.
 
n12365 said:
I also was able to get renters insurance from Avemco that covers single engine and multi engine aircraft.
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Make sure you tell them that you have a brand-new rating, in their fee structure that makes your rate go down :crazy: . Somebody mentioned having 'smooth' non-owned coverage, I wasn't able to find that when I was looking.
 
If I can resurrect and hijack this thread, any thoughts of this from the other side of the equation? I'm thinking about getting a 310R and putting it on leaseback with an fbo/flight school. I don't know if 135 is a possibility but I was thinking of offering my cfii-mi services as a way of further keeping Uncle Sam happy.

I know that back in the day, Cessna pilot centers and aviation universities used 310's as trainers but they were 40 years newer back then. Do you think that the planes are robust enough for that duty today?

A lot of this discussion dealt with insurance requirements. No one is going to have 100+ hours in a 310. Are the requirements any lighter if the plane is operated through an fbo?

I was thinking about a dry rental rate or possibly tach time to try and keep fuel costs down, after all, tach hours are what most other variable expenses are based off of.

Thanks for your consideration
 
@Glenn C

I would think a 310R would work at a flight school. When I got my ME & MEI the FBO/flight school had 5 of them, different models, and usually dedicated one to training and all of them on the Part 135 they had. This was years ago, late 70s. Where I'm at now there is a flight school that trains ME in a Twin Comanche. I don't know if it's a leaseback or owned by the flight school owner though. A lot of pilots are gearing up for the airlines so I think twins would be in demand for training for the ME Rating.
 
Do NOT put your 310 on leaseback. It will get abused. Buy it and own it outright. If you let other people fly it, be very particular about who those people are.
 
I went to look at the plane today and I was very impressed. So much so that the idea of renting it to the general public kind of lost it's taste. Still thinking of instructing, I would be the main (only) instructor. I don't really need the tax write offs or the income (I would hope), looking for a retirement hobby as much as a new toy to be honest. Sounds like 135 is off the table, the engines, while low time, are outside the calendar overhaul limits.
 
We have a 310R that we use for dual instruction, there are very few people I would allow to take it without one of us on board. We have had quite a few people get there multi with us to get some twin cessna time before apply for some of the survey operators that use twin Cessnas. While it is not necessarily the cheapest option the 310 prepares people to fly any of the other light twins quite well, whereas someone that learned in a seminole takes a few hours to transition into a twin Cessna sucessfully, hoping out of the 310 into a Seneca, Baron, etc. is a really easy transition.
 
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