Rejected

NealRomeoGolf

NealRomeoGolf

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I'm trying to file (Garmin Pilot via Leidos) a flight plan from Peoria IL to the DC area (Culpeper to be exact). The system keeps rejecting my flight plans. The rejection says "Rej fpl KZKC Rte flight does not enter center airspace"

Two weeks ago the FAA gave notice that Peoria overlying airspace was being transferred from Chicago Center to Kansas City and it was effective last week I believe. If I understand correctly, it actually isn't the airspace that changed but the responsibility for flight plans. That makes no sense to me, but whatever. I attached the notice to this thread.

This is my first attempt at filing an IFR plan since the change. I've never had a plan rejected before. I have tried these routes:

3MY BBONE.TIKEE3 KCJR
3MY YEARY BBONE.TIKEE3 KCJR
3MY DCT KCJR

All were rejected. The second one was an attempt to put an intersection near my departure airport thinking they wanted a close fix first.

Any idea what is going on with these rejections?
 

Attachments

  • ZAU-ZKC-PIA-FPF-Briefing-Document-FINAL.pdf
    867.7 KB · Views: 13
I’d contact garmin

This is a ton of help :rolleyes:

https://www.faa.gov/sites/faa.gov/f...uarters_offices/ato/Accept_Rej_error_mess.pdf
Field 15
RTE FLIGHT DOES NOT ENTER CENTER AIRSPACE
For an FPL categorized as “inbound”, a coordination fix is not found & boundary penetration is not detected.
Ensure FPL enters airspace of center to which it was addressed. In rare cases there can be disagreement between computers if the route barely enters the airspace or if stratified airspace is present (usually involving long direct route segments)
Click to expand...
 
I tried via 1800wxbrief and got rejected too. I think someone screwed up the transition of the airspace. Anyone feel free to file one via foreflight and tell me if they get an accepted plan.
 
Is this one of the rare times where actually calling 1-800-wx-brief makes sense?
 
There used to be an old rule that on long direct flights you needed to have one point within the first 250 (I think) miles of each center you transited. You might try finding one waypoint near the start of each center boundary that’s close to direct and see if that works. It looks like you totally skip Indy. Try adding PENDS and see if that works.

Edit: found it. It’s actually the first 200 NM. Look in the AIM. 5-1-8 d.2.(f)
CF36036B-2F2C-4FB1-BE7D-84B70C0C1689.jpeg
 
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So I called in to 1800wxbrief and he got rejected too by using the route with the STAR. He claimed that error was due to a lack of PBN codes. That didn't make sense to me because I have them in my profile. He took them out and put just direct and the system took it on his side. I have to file another flight plan tomorrow morning for a different leg and we'll see if that one works ok. I've never had such a message before.
 
NealRomeoGolf said:
So I called in to 1800wxbrief and he got rejected too by using the route with the STAR. He claimed that error was due to a lack of PBN codes. That didn't make sense to me because I have them in my profile. He took them out and put just direct and the system took it on his side. I have to file another flight plan tomorrow morning for a different leg and we'll see if that one works ok. I've never had such a message before.
Click to expand...
Look at my post above. You need a point in Indy’s airspace.
 
Sluggo63 said:
There used to be an old rule that on long direct flights you needed to have one point within the first 250 (I think) miles of each center you transited. You might try finding one waypoint near the start of each center boundary that’s close to direct and see if that works. It looks like you totally skip Indy. Try adding PENDS and see if that works.

Edit: found it. It’s actually the first 200 NM. Look in the AIM. 5-1-8 d.2.(f)
View attachment 107197
Click to expand...
I've heard that before and in my long history (one year) of filing IFR that has never been an issue, and I fly long flights. Last month I got KEYE-KPVD direct. Go figure.
 
Sluggo63 said:
Look at my post above. You need a point in Indy’s airspace.
Click to expand...
So are you saying that's the case just because I have a STAR? I guess the only STARs I have flown was going Memphis center airspace to Houston center airspace and they are neighbors so I wouldn't have gotten rejected from an overflight center. Interesting.

Edit: actually that route would have had a small overflight of ZFW and it wasn't rejected. This has me scratching my head.
 
It's not just you fwiw

N8735E from 3MY to KCJR scheduled at 17:00Z on 05/27/2022 was rejected by ATC. A Leidos Flight Service specialist will resolve the problem and contact you if assistance is needed. If you do not receive an ATC flight plan acceptance email within 30 minutes please contact Leidos Flight Services.

Route: 3MY DCT KCJR
Click to expand...

Now I'll probably get a phone call...:eek:
 
this kind of stuff doesn't happen in a mooney.
 
NealRomeoGolf said:
So are you saying that's the case just because I have a STAR? I guess the only STARs I have flown was going Memphis center airspace to Houston center airspace and they are neighbors so I wouldn't have gotten rejected from an overflight center. Interesting.

Edit: actually that route would have had a small overflight of ZFW and it wasn't rejected. This has me scratching my head.
Click to expand...
Honestly, I have no idea. I just remember in a former life, we’d file long (long!) direct legs, but we’d always make sure to put a point in (usually a radial/DME) at the beginning of each center’s airspace. I remember it being a rule, but honestly was surprised to find it still in there.

I usually use ForeFlight to look at a direct course to my destination, but I’ll always snap a couple waypoints into my route for fuel checks and give me something to look at on the map.

Looking at those two airports, if I was filing it, I’d have done “3MY VAGES LEEDS JULEA BBONE.TIKEE3 KCJR”

Now I’m curious if that would work for you.

Edit: I just filed that route above in ForeFlight and it wasn’t rejected. Looks like it took it.
 
NealRomeoGolf said:
Did you file direct or with a STAR?
Click to expand...
Direct. No messages this morning, nor does it show up on flightaware.

I used to be really careful about filing a fix in each center, but since that long thread we had about it the other day, I didn't bother on my trip Tuesday. I filed 9A5 DCT KCMI, was cleared as filed, and flew that. That started in Atlanta center, crossed Memphis and Indy, and ended in Chicago.
 
Jim K said:
Direct. No messages this morning, nor does it show up on flightaware.

I used to be really careful about filing a fix in each center, but since that long thread we had about it the other day, I didn't bother on my trip Tuesday. I filed 9A5 DCT KCMI, was cleared as filed, and flew that. That started in Atlanta center, crossed Memphis and Indy, and ended in Chicago.
Click to expand...
The one that the briefer filed for me doesn't show up in Flightaware either, but my one for tomorrow does. I don't get it. I'm wondering if I'm going to call up clearance this morning and get told nothing is on file.
 
The plot thickens. I called up tower (which is combined with approach) on the phone before going to the airport to see if they saw the strip. They said no. They called Chicago and they finally found it but the departure airport was ZZZ. They couldn't change it. They believe this has to do with the switchover last week with what I posted earlier. They've had this issue with Part 121 flights too.

In the end, tower made me a brand new one by putting it in themselves. Off I go dodging storms...
 
This explains what happened to me the other day. We had just dropped a passenger at Pekin, C15, and called Peoria Approach to pick up our clearance to Champaign. After a pause, they gave us a squawk and said “cleared direct to CMI, what altitude would you like to go at?”, which we thought was weird. Later, Champaign Approach said, “Peoria Approach wants to know how you filed your flight plan because they’ve been having problems “. I had filed through FltPlan.com.
 
NealRomeoGolf said:
Why? What's up with Culpeper?
Click to expand...
Sorry I missed this until now. I was just joking, but back when I used to fly around there, it seemed like all the pilots reported their approach as being over "the balls" as shown here:

Ip4Neyd.png
 
Btw, GP is 99.99% never the problem when it comes to route rejection. The client is just the messenger and uses the Leidos API.
 
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