Redundant "traffic" and other annoyances . . .

Incorrect use of “you and I” makes me grind my teeth. Example: “He baked a cake for you and I.”

I’m also irked by the use of “loan” as a verb, instead of “lend,” but apparently that has now become accepted.
Then there's the eternal quest for "good paying jobs" (should be "well-paying jobs") which seems to have been adopted by politicians of all stripes as they pander to the illiterate.
 
Incorrect use of “you and I” makes me grind my teeth. Example: “He baked a cake for you and I.”

I’m also irked by the use of “loan” as a verb, instead of “lend,” but apparently that has now become accepted.
The use of I rather than me in the objective case irks me as well. Your second statement however is incorrect. Loan as a verb is not a "now accepted" thing. The OED dates it back to Middle English (around 1200). It does mark it's use as chiefly US. Lend has a similar etymological history but is in more common modern use. They both come from the same Latin root. So the use of one of the other is primarily an evolving preference.
 
The use of I rather than me in the objective case irks me as well. Your second statement however is incorrect. Loan as a verb is not a "now accepted" thing. The OED dates it back to Middle English (around 1200). It does mark it's use as chiefly US. Lend has a similar etymological history but is in more common modern use. They both come from the same Latin root. So the use of one of the other is primarily an evolving preference.

Our standard guide for writing at work was the AP Stylebook, which I believe is in rather widespread use. It advocates using "lend" as a verb and "loan" as a noun.
 
The use of I rather than me in the objective case irks me as well. Your second statement however is incorrect. Loan as a verb is not a "now accepted" thing. The OED dates it back to Middle English (around 1200). It does mark it's use as chiefly US. Lend has a similar etymological history but is in more common modern use. They both come from the same Latin root. So the use of one of the other is primarily an evolving preference.
Furthermore, Shakespeare was not above using a noun as a verb, e.g., "It out-Herods Herod."
 
keep in mind the reason that Latin is a dead language… “I” is the plural of “us”. :D

Semper Ube Sub Ube!
 
The use of I rather than me in the objective case irks me as well. Your second statement however is incorrect. Loan as a verb is not a "now accepted" thing. The OED dates it back to Middle English (around 1200). It does mark it's use as chiefly US. Lend has a similar etymological history but is in more common modern use. They both come from the same Latin root. So the use of one of the other is primarily an evolving preference.
As we've ventured far outside aviation here… the loan vs. lend comments reminded me of a different but related word, “hire.” In the U.K., they like to use “hire” as a synonym for “rental”, as in “I’ll get a BMW from the car hire place” or “I hired a car so we can drive to Liverpool.” They seem to use “hire” equally to represent either side of the “hiring” transaction. This usage always grated on my American ears, but obviously it's their language to mess with, they did invent it, after all!
 
Our standard guide for writing at work was the AP Stylebook, which I believe is in rather widespread use. It advocates using "lend" as a verb and "loan" as a noun.
Define widespread…
 
I get annoyed when GA pilots, who use absolutely correct verbiage, stutter, tatie a long time to spit it out, have zero cadence, then say “repeat for N610TD”.
I’d much rather have the normal conversation flow, with understanding, even if there is a couple of extra words.
 
As we've ventured far outside aviation here… the loan vs. lend comments reminded me of a different but related word, “hire.” In the U.K., they like to use “hire” as a synonym for “rental”, as in “I’ll get a BMW from the car hire place” or “I hired a car so we can drive to Liverpool.” They seem to use “hire” equally to represent either side of the “hiring” transaction. This usage always grated on my American ears, but obviously it's their language to mess with, they did invent it, after all!

I was told this while in a business meeting in Plymouth, England: "two countries, separated by a common language"
 
I was told this while in a business meeting in Plymouth, England: "two countries, separated by a common language"
Queen Elizabeth II used that line in a visit to the U.S. I don't know whether she originated it.
 
It's often ascribed to George Bernard Shaw, who died two years before Elizabeth II became queen. He might have said it, but it doesn't appear in any of his published writings.
 
well that's almost exactly my point....same way now that the controller can't know for sure that the rest of the sentence was cut off when using this "standard phraseology"
"Cessna 12345 request"
could have been "Cessna 12345 request higher altitude"
or "Cessna 12345 request flight following"
or "Cessna 12345 request your grandmother's apple pie recipe"
or "Cessna 12345 request 10° right deviation for weather"
etc...
Because on a busy frequency, you will get "Standby" and then later "Cessna 12345 say request."

If things are less busy, I will do as you indicate.
 
Another one that drives me batty is when someone writes “lead” instead of “led,” as in “The colonel lead his soldiers into battle.”

The only time “lead” is pronounced “led” is when it’s the metal.
 
My God. I always hear the GA guys doing a fantastic job, yet the airliners goobering things up.

Give me strength
 
I have recently heard several airlines check in with "with you."

They are not immune
 
I have recently heard several airlines check in with "with you."

They are not immune
"Acceptable jargon" is in constant flux. "Any traffic in the area please advise" arose a previous Unicom request for, "What's your active runway?", which then responded with an advisory of traffic in the area. Terms that may have been useful in the past are condemned in the present, often for good reason.

When was the last time you heard, "Tally-ho"?
 
"Acceptable jargon" is in constant flux. "Any traffic in the area please advise" arose a previous Unicom request for, "What's your active runway?", which then responded with an advisory of traffic in the area. Terms that may have been useful in the past are condemned in the present, often for good reason.

When was the last time you heard, "Tally-ho"?
Military uses Tally Ho and No Joy.

I used them in civilian flying until someone pointed out that the AIM says something else.

I still they they are better, as there is no doubt which one you said. Versus "@@#$% in sight" which started as "NOT in sight."
 
“Any traffic in the area please advise" arose a previous Unicom request for, "What's your active runway?", which then responded with an advisory of traffic in the area.


ATITAPA was created as a crutch for the speaker, not for actual communication purposes.
 
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Military uses Tally Ho and No Joy.

I used them in civilian flying until someone pointed out that the AIM says something else.

I still they they are better, as there is no doubt which one you said. Versus "@@#$% in sight" which started as "NOT in sight."
That is why I use "negative contact."
 
Another one that drives me batty is when someone writes “lead” instead of “led,” as in “The colonel lead his soldiers into battle.”

The only time “lead” is pronounced “led” is when it’s the metal.
We used to deal with a software package called "Lead Tools" which was intended to be pronounced leed. I always called it led tools.
 
Military uses Tally Ho and No Joy.

I still they they are better, as there is no doubt which one you said.
My CFI insisted I use those. He’d correct me if I used “negative contact” or “in sight”
 
That is why I use "negative contact."
Same here. "Traffic in sight" and "negative contact" are what the Pilot/Controller Glossary specifies. Trouble is, some people say "contact" when they see the traffic, so ATC can mishear "negative contact" as "contact." This happened to me at Oakland once, so ever since then, I give special emphasis to the "negative."
 
Same here. "Traffic in sight" and "negative contact" are what the Pilot/Controller Glossary specifies. Trouble is, some people say "contact" when they see the traffic, so ATC can mishear "negative contact" as "contact." This happened to me at Oakland once, so ever since then, I give special emphasis to the "negative."

Which is why I respond with “Searching for traffic” or “Traffic in sight, x-o’clock crossing/passing left/right.” Factor/No factor is not something I usually declare since I have no onboard RADAR and ADS-B isn’t good enough to make that determination.

Not in the AIM per se, but plain text in 4-2-1. I’ve gone back and forth on this for a long time and finally concluded the AIM carveout for plain text is enough to support it.
 
Military uses Tally Ho and No Joy.

I used them in civilian flying until someone pointed out that the AIM says something else.

I still they they are better, as there is no doubt which one you said. Versus "@@#$% in sight" which started as "NOT in sight."
Visual would be more appropriate than Tally. At least per the last time I’d looked at the brevity book a while back (6+ years ago).
 
Which is why I respond with “Searching for traffic” or “Traffic in sight, x-o’clock crossing/passing left/right.” Factor/No factor is not something I usually declare since I have no onboard RADAR and ADS-B isn’t good enough to make that determination.

Not in the AIM per se, but plain text in 4-2-1. I’ve gone back and forth on this for a long time and finally concluded the AIM carveout for plain text is enough to support it.
"Searching" or "Looking" is not in the lexicon. First, it tells ATC nothing. They assume you will look for traffic they call. All that matters to them is that you have TRAFFIC IN SIGHT. Having them on the "fish finder" or anything else is "NEGATIVE CONTACT." You're expected to avoid the aircraft you have in sight. The rest is spurious.
 
"Searching" or "Looking" is not in the lexicon. First, it tells ATC nothing. They assume you will look for traffic they call. All that matters to them is that you have TRAFFIC IN SIGHT. Having them on the "fish finder" or anything else is "NEGATIVE CONTACT." You're expected to avoid the aircraft you have in sight. The rest is spurious.
So, if you don't see them immediately, you just say nothing? The controller has no idea if you have heard them or not.
 
So, if you don't see them immediately, you just say nothing? The controller has no idea if you have heard them or not.
Nope, I say negative contact. Clears up the frequency for the next call.
 
I at least look in the specified direction before I say negative contact. Sometimes I do say looking, but I assume that controllers treat that the same as negative contact.
 
I at least look in the specified direction before I say negative contact. Sometimes I do say looking, but I assume that controllers treat that the same as negative contact.
I do look. But if I can't find it in the time it takes them to finish their call, me to key the mike and give my call sign, negative contact is what comes out.
 
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