recovering from inverted flight

WannFly

WannFly

Final Approach
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so i have been pondering over this for a while.... there are documented procedures on how to recover from spins, there are emergency procedures for a bunch of things... but every time i do 60 degree bank, the thought of some day i will go inteverted due to a wind gust crosses my mind. or during any phase of the flight if the wind is strong enough.

questions for experienced folks out here...

is this so uncommon that no one bothered to put in POH?
what do you actually do when you go inverted... roll out of it in a coordinated fashion?

i guess an acro training is in order... but thats not happening anytime soon
 
guess push and roll... but does this work in a normal tin can we fly the same way?

 
I don't think a 60 deg bank will likely go to inverted even with rough air. I've never had that experience in any weather of that type......
In any case I think if you do end up inverted through wake turbulance (most likely cause) you can continue the roll until you're back upright then recover your pitch to a safe angle.
Just my thoughts on the matter.

Frank
 
Counter the gust with aileron and don't let your nose get buried.
 
Onlyist times I've been upside down was on purpose.

Roll. Just roll.

It works on a Citabria, it works on a 150, so it should work on whatever you be flying.
 
if you're worried a gust during a 60 deg bank will flip you inverted you need to keep your hands on the yoke and retain feeling in your hands. . .
 
DGlaeser said:
But remember, after that moment, your engine will probably quit, and you may have a bunch of oil coming out of your crankcase vent :)
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yeah u might not enjoy that moment all that much.
 
DGlaeser said:
But remember, after that moment, your engine will probably quit, and you may have a bunch of oil coming out of your crankcase vent :)
Click to expand...

The first time I went inverted in a car, for some reason I was surprised that all the oil drained out. The gas stayed in the cell as check valves did what they were supposed to do.
 
I knew a guy, long time back, very low time, attempted to roll a 150. Part of that evoloution was inverted, and he just kept the aileron cranked in, with slight back pressure. Ended up 1,000' or so lower, on a very diffrent heading. All parts remained with the airplane. . .he's smarter now.
 
Just don't pull a split s...that's the worst thing you could do...just keep rolling
 
I highly suggest unusual attitude recovery training.

Unload the wing and then recover. That's the basics.

Never try to recover while the airplane is in a bank.
 
Zeldman said:
The first time I went inverted in a car, for some reason I was surprised that all the oil drained out. The gas stayed in the cell as check valves did what they were supposed to do.
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The first time??
Do that often do you? :D
 
jordane93 said:
Pull the chute
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Inverted?
Hmmm. Something for Cirrus to introduce as a G7 improvement. But only as an interim solution until they start selling the ultimate...a zero-zero CAPS on Gen 8. ;)
 
WannFly said:
so i have been pondering over this for a while.... there are documented procedures on how to recover from spins, there are emergency procedures for a bunch of things... but every time i do 60 degree bank, the thought of some day i will go inteverted due to a wind gust crosses my mind. or during any phase of the flight if the wind is strong enough.

questions for experienced folks out here...

is this so uncommon that no one bothered to put in POH?
what do you actually do when you go inverted... roll out of it in a coordinated fashion?

i guess an acro training is in order... but thats not happening anytime soon
Click to expand...
I'd say just keep the bank going, eventually you'll come back right side up!
 
I have never been inverted but from what I have seen from the infamous Bob Hoover videos the plane really doesn't care which way it is up as long as it retains 1G flight

One of my instructors told me that for any type of upset recovery unload the wing, level the bank, and then correct the pitch, in that order
 
You continue the roll, but you have to push the yoke forward while inverted to help avoid getting into a split-S recovery, which can overstress the airframe. It is one thing to describe it, it is another to actually do it.
I highly recommend an emergency maneuvers training course. It doesn't have to be extensive. As little as a couple hours of ground training and 2-3 hours in the plane will make a safer, more confident pilot.
 
GRG55 said:
The first time??
Do that often do you? :D
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Not often, but a few too many times...!!!:lol::lol::lol:

On the first time, I had just bought a new to me race car to move up a faster class. On the first race something broke in the rear suspension and caused the car to make a sudden uncommanded left turn in the middle of the front straight. A car behind me caught the left rear bumper and the car did a snap roll one complete roll then stopped on the roof.

Completely ruined the paint job...
 
Zeldman said:
Not often, but a few too many times...!!!:lol::lol::lol:

On the first time, I had just bought a new to me race car to move up a faster class. On the first race something broke in the rear suspension and caused the car to make a sudden uncommanded left turn in the middle of the front straight. A car behind me caught the left rear bumper and the car did a snap roll one complete roll then stopped on the roof.

Completely ruined the paint job...
Click to expand...

LOL. Love that story!
I'm sure it buffed out. ;)
 
GRG55 said:
LOL. Love that story!
I'm sure it buffed out. ;)
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Actually it did..!!

The roll cage did its job and there was no structural damage. I hammered the body back close to original and left the paint job as it was.. I didn't get another scratch on it for the rest of the season.
 
Tantalum said:
I have never been inverted but from what I have seen from the infamous Bob Hoover videos the plane really doesn't care which way it is up as long as it retains 1G flight
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That's true, but in level inverted flight you, plane, and everything in it are at -1G(effectively).
 
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genna said:
That's true, but in level inverted flight you, plane, and everything in it are at -1G(effectively).
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Sounds like a bad time, I bet in reality it would be a very peculiar sensation and make recovery quite difficult for someone inexperienced. I for one would love to do some upset recovery training, or better yet some proper aerobatic training
 
WannFly said:
so i have been pondering over this for a while.... there are documented procedures on how to recover from spins, there are emergency procedures for a bunch of things... but every time i do 60 degree bank, the thought of some day i will go inteverted due to a wind gust crosses my mind. or during any phase of the flight if the wind is strong enough.

questions for experienced folks out here...

is this so uncommon that no one bothered to put in POH?
what do you actually do when you go inverted... roll out of it in a coordinated fashion?

i guess an acro training is in order... but thats not happening anytime soon
Click to expand...
Do you worry about a wing gust putting you into a 31 degree turn while flying straight and level?
 
Salty said:
Do you worry about a wing gust putting you into a 31 degree turn while flying straight and level?
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I don't, most likely because I am in known territory, but beyond 60 I am in uncharyered territory. My POH says in utility category it can bank beyond 60 degrees, but never tried it...

Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk
 
MAKG1 said:
Only if you're straight and level while inverted. That would seem rather unlikely under the circumstances given.
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-1G is not likely for long due to engine quitting rather soon, but +1G(what i was referring to in my comment) is even less likely.. That requires very high(20m/ss(2G)) sustained acceleration down. in 1 second you are at 20m/s descent=3900fpm. 3 seconds-12,000fpm.

You are probably likely to be between 0 and -1
 
genna said:
-1G is not likely for long due to engine quitting rather soon, but +1G(what i was referring to in my comment) is even less likely.. That requires very high(20m/ss(2G)) sustained acceleration down. in 1 second you are at 20m/s descent=3900fpm. 3 seconds-12,000fpm.

You are probably likely to be between 0 and -1
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Not correct.

A properly executed barrel roll is a 1G maneuver.

There is a well known video of Bob Hoover performing one, as an unspilled glass of water rests on his glare shield. That's not possible with negative G's.
 
So how does that make what I said "not correct "?
 
Barrel roll is a circle. To travel in true round circle, one must have continuous acceleration toward the middle("positive G"). Doesn't have to be 1G, just more than 0. Diameter and speed(in circle) will determine the G(or vice versa). That includes a short time inverted with downward acceleration. But that does not have any bearing on my statement in which you are flying inverted for some period of time without performing the roll.
 
If you ain't never been upside down before, you aren't going to be in a frame of mind to do anything but twist the yoke to the stop (even that can be surprisingly difficult) and keep going. Yes, you should be using forward stick and top rudder as appropriate, but it ain't a gonna happen and trying to make it up on the spot is just going to delay your recovery.

I know that on my first attempt at a roll, once the airplane got inverted I forgot to keep rolling (and my brother just sat in the back laughing his ass off at me - as usual). I am told that many people do the same.
 
Airplanes are all-attitude vehicles -- they don't know which way is up or down, only which forces are acting upon them. It really isn't that complicated -- certainly not some strange voodoo which requires a special POH procedure.

As has been recommended, go pay for an hour or two of intro aerobatic training. Once you've been there, you'll realize it isn't anything to be afraid of.
 
WannFly said:
I don't, most likely because I am in known territory, but beyond 60 I am in uncharyered territory. My POH says in utility category it can bank beyond 60 degrees, but never tried it...

Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Going inverted would require a 31 degree increase in bank angle (even then 91 degrees isn't what I'd call inverted, I suppose technically it is). Are you really worried a wind gust (outside of wake turbulence) is going to bank your wings 31 degrees before you stop it?
 
MAKG1 said:
You said there must have been negative Gs. No, that's not true.
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Where did I say that? All I said is that you cannot ****sustain****. 1g in inverted flight.you are rapidly accelerating down in top part of barel roll. Just doesn't last long enough and starts with vertical positive speed. If you attempt to stay inverted, you cannot maintain 1g.
 
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