Recommended route Atlanta > Tucson

Hambone

Hambone

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Hambone
Hello!

I'm contemplating flying a Corben Baby Ace (single-seat taildragger, open cockpit, no electrical system) from near Atlanta to Tucson (~1400 nm) mid/late November. Range is 200 nm, but I'm trying to keep the legs less than 120 nm. Although I've got 3000+ hours, I have very few taildragger hours. In fact, I'm finishing up my taildragger endorsement next week.

Apart from cold, turbulence, non-VFR weather, sparse population west of Texas, and high density altitudes, what other issues and contingencies should I plan for? Any preferred routes? I'm in no hurry to get back. I'll have a handheld radio and Foreflight on my iPad.

Any experiences and recommendations welcome!
 
I've flown taildraggers (my own airplanes and ferry trips) across the US several times (East coast to AZ and SoCal primarily). Here's my two cents:

I always tell people when trying to plan a route across the US in any GA piston airplane (IFR or VFR) to have two or three general routes planned and update accordingly the day before/day of the trip based on weather. Going between Atlanta and Tucson, your two primary route options are via Albuquerque or El Paso. With most taildraggers, I prefer going via Albuquerque rather than El Paso because the wind seems to be always blowing in El Paso. BUT, going via Albuquerque requires higher altitude obviously, so that may be a consideration for you. You are going to have to takeoff at some point on that route from roughly 6000' elevations. Are you comfortable with that in that airplane? If not, you may be limited to the southern El Paso route and hopefully you have some flexibility to wait until winds are within your comfort level.

Honestly, I'm not trying to scare you or talk you out of it, but my biggest concern based on your post is the idea of trying this trip right after getting the tailwheel endorsement. The questions you and the instructor signing you off need to be asking are things like:
-are you comfortable landing in a 20 kt crosswind?
-What about gusting winds?
-Do you have the flexibility to wait for a few days at a stop if the winds aren't cooperating?
-Do you have the flexibility to plan your trip for a given week and then push it to the following week and then the following week again?
-What will you do if you depart on a leg with a forecast for calm winds down the runway and as you approach the destination, the AWOS is reporting winds are 70 degrees off the runway at 15 kts gusting to 20? THIS is huge factor because in some areas across Texas and New Mexico, you might not have the fuel in that airplane to continue on to the next available airport with better wind/runway combination or even double back to an airport behind you. Foreflight with a Stratus or something similar can help a lot, but still not a guarantee.

Such a trip CAN safely be done even at your experience level and it is certainly a cool experience, but I would not even consider/attempt it unless I had a lot of time flexibility. I've done a few trips where with winds were calm the whole time and no issues and I've also seen a lot of times where the winds at the destination turned out very different from the forecast and I had no other choice but to make some challenging landings on the edge of my comfort zone.

Another aspect to consider is the open cockpit experience. Open cockpits are fun, but it is a whole 'nother experience doing a multi-day cross country in one. I've done several of those in biplanes. It is not unlike sailing a sailboat several days across the open ocean. Wind buffeting alone takes it's toll on you over time. You will be battered and exhausted when you get to your destination. Fall down in the shower if you close your eyes kind of thing if you know what I mean. You may even want to spend a day or two at a destination alone the way to give yourself a break. It's fun if you are young and want the adventure, but to be totally honest, it can sap a lot of the fun out of the open cockpit thing. You might never want to get in that airplane again once you complete the trip. When I was a ferry pilot, I used to charge more for trips like you are proposing because it is a ton more work and tough on the body.

What you are describing is the kind of mission that a lot of people would engage the services of a ferry pilot for since most folks don't have the flexibility in their schedules to do. Or they would have the airplane disassembled and trucked. I'm not saying that to drum up business because I'm not currently in that line of work, but it is something to consider.

Hope that helps and feel free to ask any more specific questions.
 
The El Paso route is the easiest. Keeps you clear of the highest terrain & R areas.

I’ve done Dalton GA, Abilene TX, Deming NM, Carlsbad CA. Pretty easy flight. Tried Riverside CA north of Whitesand NM on the way home and was getting rocked by turbulence at 11,500 so I hung a right and took the “El Paso route” again. Smooth sailing.
 
Santa Theresa KDNA would be a nice stop, it is just past El Paso. Friendly, war museum on site, courtesy car, and restaurants and hotels right near by.
 
I think Fearless hit all the points I was going to make, so I think it bears printing out and reading several times.

Especially the part about having a ton of time to ride out wind and weather delays. I don't know how old you are, but I would probably have loved to have made that trip around 30 or 40 years ago. Today, it is hard enough in a Bonanza going 160 kts with 80 gallons of fuel and oxygen and a partner that does most of the flying.
 
My dad brought a Tiger Moth back to Dallas from Boston. Because of weather and mechanical problems it took about a week. Last day he made it all the way from Nashville. Any area on his face that was not covered was pealing from wind burn.
 
Fly to El Paso, then follow I-10. Easy peasy.
 
While the I-10 is the easy route, I would find a route further north in NM and then closer to Baldy Peak to be more scenic and challenging. All depends on what you are looking for.
 
PeterNSteinmetz said:
While the I-10 is the easy route, I would find a route further north in NM and then closer to Baldy Peak to be more scenic and challenging. All depends on what you are looking for.
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He's flying a single seat, open cockpit taildragger with no electrical system from Atlanta to Tucson in late November. How much more challenging do you think he should make it?
 
JOhnH said:
He's flying a single seat, open cockpit taildragger with no electrical system from Atlanta to Tucson in late November. How much more challenging do you think he should make it?
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Inverted? Exclusively at night?
 
I'm going to assume you are flying from Perry, GA to Tucson, AZ, mostly because there is a nice looking Baby Ace for sale down there.

I would be very hesitant to plan this trip any trip on a sight-unseen experimental I just purchased, and I personally would budget to hire a ferry pilot to fly it over, work through whatever issues are found, and then assist me with transitioning to the airplane (actually, I know a young A&P, CFI-S who is working on his CPL now, and building time to the airlines that I would try to talk into taking my money for the flight as soon as he passes his CPL). Granted, I am a 115(ish) hour pilot with 12 hours in a tailwheel, so you may be more experienced and comfortable with that than I am. But that's not what this thread is about, so back on topic.

I'm only going to comment on East of the Mississippi because that is what I know. I would flight plan two routes across.

One (the one I would want to fly) would be southeast toward Mobile, AL/Gulfport, MS, and then follow I-10 across. I would try to land near (but not at, unless you need the intersecting runways to compensate for wind) every Class D airport between Perry and Mobile. PXE-KCSG-KMGM-KBFM, this would have you flying less than 100nm legs initially, which will help with the fatigue of flying a new plane, and give you a chance to inspect the plane every time you land. Once you get to Mobile, VFR Navigation will be much easier, just keep the plane between I-10 and the gulf, also I would land at KNEW because I hate flying past New Orleans without stopping in for at least 1 meal.

The second would be across the Northside of AL, MS, LA. I would only A similar strategy of aim for Class Ds with intersecting runways and weather reporting, but try to land at smaller nearby airports for the cheap fuel. There are 2 major downsides to this, 1 there are a lot more areas without airports (and most of them are trees) if you have in-flight issues (the south route will have you flying past an airstrip every 20 miles or so), which would concern me in any unproven aircraft, and the other issue is as you get closer to the mountains, the winds become less predictable, and there are fewer airports with intersecting runways, meaning you are more likely to have a crosswind component. Also, you don't have the gulf for ease of navigation and supply of fresh seafood for great meals while en route.
 
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Also, if you don't have a portable ADS-B device for enroute TAFs (as well as traffic, and delayed radar, but wind reports/changes at the destination would be really valuable in flight), then get one before the trip. I use a Stratux (stratux.me), but any of them will work. If didn't build my Stratux, and I was shopping today, I'd probably buy a Sentry.
 
I don't know the eastern part of this trip, but from west Texas on, yes El Paso and follow the Interstate is easy and simple, and pretty much keeps you over flat ground. Going west, keep El Paso on your left; you'll (obviously) be close to the Mexican border there and you don't want to drift over it by mistake.

Which Tucson airport are you heading to?
 
The lowest route, is basically following I-10, but for what its worth, the SP transcon line is actually a bit lower than the highway in places. There are a surprisingly high number of wires out in the desert. Having done a cross country at 30 knots across this route, it's not fun with the wind in your face, but November is far from the worst time to try it.
 
deyoung said:
I don't know the eastern part of this trip, but from west Texas on, yes El Paso and follow the Interstate is easy and simple, and pretty much keeps you over flat ground. Going west, keep El Paso on your left; you'll (obviously) be close to the Mexican border there and you don't want to drift over it by mistake.

Which Tucson airport are you heading to?
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Ryan.
 
MarkH said:
Also, if you don't have a portable ADS-B device for enroute TAFs (as well as traffic, and delayed radar, but wind reports/changes at the destination would be really valuable in flight), then get one before the trip. I use a Stratux (stratux.me), but any of them will work. If didn't build my Stratux, and I was shopping today, I'd probably buy a Sentry.
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Great idea! I sold my Stratux with my CTSW. The Sentry or Sentry Mini look great, especially with the restricted space in the Baby Ace. It should easily fit on the panel. I can hopefully still strap an iPad to my leg!
 
MarkH said:
I'm going to assume you are flying from Perry, GA to Tucson, AZ, mostly because there is a nice looking Baby Ace for sale down there.

I would be very hesitant to plan this trip any trip on a sight-unseen experimental I just purchased, and I personally would budget to hire a ferry pilot to fly it over, work through whatever issues are found, and then assist me with transitioning to the airplane (actually, I know a young A&P, CFI-S who is working on his CPL now, and building time to the airlines that I would try to talk into taking my money for the flight as soon as he passes his CPL). Granted, I am a 115(ish) hour pilot with 12 hours in a tailwheel, so you may be more experienced and comfortable with that than I am. But that's not what this thread is about, so back on topic.

I'm only going to comment on East of the Mississippi because that is what I know. I would flight plan two routes across.

One (the one I would want to fly) would be southeast toward Mobile, AL/Gulfport, MS, and then follow I-10 across. I would try to land near (but not at, unless you need the intersecting runways to compensate for wind) every Class D airport between Perry and Mobile. PXE-KCSG-KMGM-KBFM, this would have you flying less than 100nm legs initially, which will help with the fatigue of flying a new plane, and give you a chance to inspect the plane every time you land. Once you get to Mobile, VFR Navigation will be much easier, just keep the plane between I-10 and the gulf, also I would land at KNEW because I hate flying past New Orleans without stopping in for at least 1 meal.

The second would be across the Northside of AL, MS, LA. I would only A similar strategy of aim for Class Ds with intersecting runways and weather reporting, but try to land at smaller nearby airports for the cheap fuel. There are 2 major downsides to this, 1 there are a lot more areas without airports (and most of them are trees) if you have in-flight issues (the south route will have you flying past an airstrip every 20 miles or so), which would concern me in any unproven aircraft, and the other issue is as you get closer to the mountains, the winds become less predictable, and there are fewer airports with intersecting runways, meaning you are more likely to have a crosswind component. Also, you don't have the gulf for ease of navigation and supply of fresh seafood for great meals while en route.
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Great advice! I'm going to get my endorsement in Florida, then head up to Georgia to check out the airplane. If there is any doubt about the situation, I'll either take the wing off and U-Haul it home, or perhaps try to find a ferry pilot. If you have someone in mind, feel free to PM me with the details. I thought that finding a ferry pilot to ferry an open-cockpit single-seat experimental with no electrical system from GA to AZ would be impossible!
 
Hambone said:
I thought that finding a ferry pilot to ferry an open-cockpit single-seat experimental with no electrical system from GA to AZ would be impossible!
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Not impossible, but there are some definite things to consider there.

Right now, the ferry market is flooded with young low time commercial pilots desperate to build hours to get to the airlines. Some of those are great pilots with excellent skills and good decision making abilities. And then there are many that are so focused on building the time that they will jump on a job at a low rate without fully thinking it through. The challenge for an owner looking to engage the services of a ferry pilot is figuring out which ones are legit and know what they are doing. The key is to use some of the insight here in this thread and ask a lot of questions. If they seem too nonchalant about it, that would be a warning sign.

You can always pursue bigger, more reputable outfits, but it will likely cost you more than trailering it.
 
Fearless Tower said:
Not impossible, but there are some definite things to consider there.

Right now, the ferry market is flooded with young low time commercial pilots desperate to build hours to get to the airlines. Some of those are great pilots with excellent skills and good decision making abilities. And then there are many that are so focused on building the time that they will jump on a job at a low rate without fully thinking it through. The challenge for an owner looking to engage the services of a ferry pilot is figuring out which ones are legit and know what they are doing. The key is to use some of the insight here in this thread and ask a lot of questions. If they seem too nonchalant about it, that would be a warning sign.

You can always pursue bigger, more reputable outfits, but it will likely cost you more than trailering it.
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Great advice. Thanks!
 
I’m liking the Mobile > Tucson route following I-10.

Any and all recommendations for stops along the way most welcome! I’ll ideally plan for 300-400 nm per day, and would like to hangar the Baby Ace each night.
 
Hambone said:
Apart from cold, turbulence, non-VFR weather, sparse population west of Texas, and high density altitudes, what other issues and contingencies should I plan for? Any preferred routes? I'm in no hurry to get back. I'll have a handheld radio and Foreflight on my iPad. Any experiences and recommendations welcome!
Click to expand...

If "breezy" in my area (El Paso) ... Las Cruces has 3 runways ... if in trouble earlier in W. Texas (Pecos and Carlsbad NM are easy) ... Deming NM also has multiple runways. Van Horn TX does not have "ticks" meaning "no fuel" on the sectional, but they have in the past re-fueled AC low on fuel ... Pecos TX if running low in that area. Density altitude shouldn't be much of a concern in November in my area.

If you weather check KGDP (this is NOT an airport, but a sensor on top of Guadalupe Peak) and winds are 35+, take the day off unless you want a rough ride ... high wind there will basically predict the entire W.Texas and southern NM ride condition *IF* it is HIGH.
 
danhagan said:
If "breezy" in my area (El Paso) ... Las Cruces has 3 runways ... if in trouble earlier in W. Texas (Pecos and Carlsbad NM are easy) ... Deming NM also has multiple runways. Van Horn TX does not have "ticks" meaning "no fuel" on the sectional, but they have in the past re-fueled AC low on fuel ... Pecos TX if running low in that area. Density altitude shouldn't be much of a concern in November in my area.

If you weather check KGDP (this is NOT an airport, but a sensor on top of Guadalupe Peak) and winds are 35+, take the day off unless you want a rough ride ... high wind there will basically predict the entire W.Texas and southern NM ride condition *IF* it is HIGH.
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That’s some great information. Thank you very much!

I can’t start back until 25 Nov, so I expect it to be chilly, even staying south.
 
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