Realistic career path?

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DysonSphere

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DysonSphere
Hi, I'm 41. And I'm interested in going the commercial route. I just did a discovery flight and I was going to book my FAA medical but I got discouraged by some people online. Is this realistic for my age? I'd also have to take out a loan which is what people have been talking down to me about. Someone told me if I can't pay for the PPL in cash then don't bother. My financial situation is that my wife took over mortgage and many expenses while I became a stay at home dad during Covid. But now I have no debt and I'm working nights again and was planning on taking a loan out and training every weekday. The school near me has a loan option from start to MEI rating at $89k and I wouldn't have to start paying until I think 15 months in. Does anyone have any thoughts on this? I'm hoping I can get a monthly payment of about $600. Also my plan was to get to my CFI and then teach while logging hours. Does anyone think this is realistic?
 
First, get the medical. then you decide. When you say “commercial” did you mean The Bigs? That would be a stretch goal at your age, given that you’re starting flat footed with zero hours. The best you can reasonable expect (in my opinion) is instructing or maybe freight dog.

For God’s sake, do not take out a loan with or thru a flight school. that is only trouble. The schools have your money & you have no leverage to make them perform...or even stay in business. But you still have the payment.

Frankly, you’ve yet to demonstrate any aptitude for flying nor any ability to study & pass the written.
 
DysonSphere said:
I'm hoping I can get a monthly payment of about $600.
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Then don’t do a loan. Train at the rate $600/month will support, about a lesson a week. Try to stretch to at least two lessons per week, knowing that some will be cancelled due to weather or mechanical issues.

At this point, you don’t really know whether you’ll even like flying, much less have an aptitude for it, nor do know that you can get a medical. It’s waaay too early to think about borrowing $90,000.

Also bear in mind that the dropout rate in flight training is pretty high.
 
DysonSphere said:
… planning on taking a loan out…
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Don’t. A second class medical, which you’ll need to be paid to fly, is an annual renewal for you. Every 12 months, you’ll have to roll the dice; it’s suck to be nearly six figures in debt for something you may not be able to use.

Add to it, working nights and training during the day is going to leave you in a constant state of fatigue. Work days and train weekends/evenings. Pay as you go.
 
Way too little information provided about the marital dynamic here, to provide a serious response on the viability of a professional pilot career pivot for the household in question. So I'll be flippant instead:

BLUF, there's def cheaper ways to deal with a mid life crisis.

I used to be a big booster of recreational GA over a pro career if catharsis was the genesis behind the want, but then inflation and credit card millionaires summarily kicked me out the hobby (re entry tbd). So as much as i would have normally steered you to the recreational side for a man in your presumed domestic circumstances, my own unwillingness to float the going asking price of the hobby, qualifies anymore to say roll the dice on the pro bid and dont bi%ch if it blows up in your face. Good luck!
 
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DysonSphere said:
Hi, I'm 41. And I'm interested in going the commercial route. I just did a discovery flight and I was going to book my FAA medical but I got discouraged by some people online. Is this realistic for my age? I'd also have to take out a loan which is what people have been talking down to me about. Someone told me if I can't pay for the PPL in cash then don't bother. My financial situation is that my wife took over mortgage and many expenses while I became a stay at home dad during Covid. But now I have no debt and I'm working nights again and was planning on taking a loan out and training every weekday. The school near me has a loan option from start to MEI rating at $89k and I wouldn't have to start paying until I think 15 months in. Does anyone have any thoughts on this? I'm hoping I can get a monthly payment of about $600. Also my plan was to get to my CFI and then teach while logging hours. Does anyone think this is realistic?
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Sir you're doing great. The age of 41 is not a big deal. Do not trust this Av cartels on these threads. Remember it's you and your willpower. You will be a great pilot. Just to let you know I also get bullied so many times online but I don't care. It's just a reference only Hope I make sense to you
 
To the OP.

There is no need, at this time, to rush into anything with regard to this idea.

Do NOT go get an FAA medical until you have taken at least 9 or 10 hours of serious instruction in an actual airplane- Serious meaning pattern work, stalls/ stall recovery, emergency procedures, etc.
By then, you will have some idea about whether this is actually for you or not. Flight training is serious business- especially if you tell your instructor from the outset that your goal is to be a professional at it.
There is no need to have a medical until you are ready to solo.

While you are in this phase of flight training (pre-solo) is also the time to schedule a consultation with an AME to determine if you can qualify for a first-class medical. If there is something in your medical background that would preclude you from getting a first-class medical, there is no use in pursuing a professional flying career.
Also, do not rely on your flight instructor‘s opinion As to whether or not you would qualify.
At age 40, there is at least a decent chance that there is some medical issue in your past.
Whatever you do, don’t just apply for a medical without knowing exactly how it will turn out- thus the need for the consultation first.

Secondly, for that same time period, there is absolutely no need to plunk down a huge chunk of change to a flight school until you are fairly certain that flying professionally is what you want to do.

As others have stated, it’s best to just pay as you go for the first dozen hours or so.

That’s my .02 worth Of advice.
 
I’m 41 and pretty established in aviation. As a professional flight instructor and salaried aviation professional looking at the current environment I’d be cautious. Realistically you are 3-5 years from getting a decent job, IF you make it through all the hoops, and then your competition will be the current crop of youngsters that are being sold the pilot shortage carrot. Then, the job openings depend on the future economy and you WILL be competing in an environment that will probably disadvantage you if you aren’t in the correct DEI demographics.

If you want to fly, go for it, but don’t gamble on it paying well or being a great experience. Start with NO loans until at a minimum you get past instrument rating.
 
Also, reading more closely about your Covid experience and your wife, I’ll probably ruffle some feathers here, but you sound like an ok copilot but not a future captain that I’d prefer to fly with. Not all personalities are optimal for that responsibility - but people can grow if they put in the work. So that’s probably also ahead.
 
RyanShort1 said:
Also, reading more closely about your Covid experience and your wife, I’ll probably ruffle some feathers here, but you sound like an ok copilot but not a future captain that I’d prefer to fly with. Not all personalities are optimal for that responsibility - but people can grow if they put in the work. So that’s probably also ahead.
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What part of becoming a stay-at-home dad during COVID makes a person unsuitable to be an airline captain?
 
pilotshashi said:
Sir you're doing great. The age of 41 is not a big deal. Do not trust this Av cartels on these threads. Remember it's you and your willpower. You will be a great pilot. Just to let you know I also get bullied so many times online but I don't care. It's just a reference only Hope I make sense to you
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OP, keep in mind that the above-quoted advice is coming from a young private pilot, not from a professional aviator.
 
pilotshashi said:
Just to let you know I also get bullied so many times online but I don't care.
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Where in this thread did the OP “get bullied” ???

The dude asked for advice and a few of us gave some based on our experience and knowledge of the industry.

sheesh
 
If you are going to take out a loan, use a normal financial institution and bank the money then pay as you go. Maybe do a short term block time deal. My local FBO gives a few percent discount for $500 cash or check pre-pay. Do NOT pay the flight school any more money ahead that you can afford to lose. Closing the doors and leaving people hanging is NOT uncommon. The issue is, 3 - 5 years from now, will there be any jobs? You will have the debt, but no job in the industry.

Do a CONSULTATION with the AME (Aviation Medical Examiner) first. DO NOT GIVE THEM THE MED EXPRESS NUMBER. Once they enter that number there are only two possibilities. You get a medical or you get denied (possibly after months). Once denied, you cannot use the option of Sport Pilot and flying for fun.

Also, remember, this is a business where a simple medical issue can have you out of the job quickly, and then you are on the street, with a lot of debt.

It can be done. I wish you luck. In my case, I decided it just wasn't a job that I wanted to do. It would have taken the fun out of flying.
 
You might reach out to folks who have gone the ATP route later in life. There are several around. Try posting on the pro fliers web boards, too. Use your "common sense" filer for the replies. Obviously you'll get a mix of good, excellent, and nonsnse advice.

I'm far from a pro, but will say you might think about going "self directed" intensive training for your PPC. Do another one or few flights locally with an instructor. Save up $10K. Take 2-3 weeks vacation or leave, go to AZ or someplace cheap where you can fly daily with an instructor, 2X/d on certain days. Read, study, and take your written with a good score prior to embarking.
 
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RyanShort1 said:
Also, reading more closely about your Covid experience and your wife, I’ll probably ruffle some feathers here, but you sound like an ok copilot but not a future captain that I’d prefer to fly with. Not all personalities are optimal for that responsibility - but people can grow if they put in the work. So that’s probably also ahead.
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WTF? lol
 
pilotshashi said:
So what I am also learning everyday... Almost there for prof'l pilot sir
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Well. Calling the advice provided in this thread “bullying” pretty much says you don’t know anything. Yet.

It’s ok though. We all started knowing nothing. As I have gained more experience as an airman what I have discovered is how little I know. You’re still at the stage where you think you know things. It passes. One day you’ll realize you don’t. Then you’ll really start learning the big lessons.
 
Ed Haywood said:
What part of becoming a stay-at-home dad during COVID makes a person unsuitable to be an airline captain?
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Tarheelpilot said:
WTF? lol
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Well, I did state it in the form of a personal preference, but one that I suspect is shared by others.

I’ve flown with a number of young bucks in the cockpit both as a CFI and as an aerial photographer and I have a pretty high tolerance for rookies that need to grow, but longer-term life choices and traits tend to be harder to change as you get older. No one is making a hard judgment about the OP specifically, since I don’t know him, but an HR department likely won’t dig that far, either, and they definitely do ask a lot of work-history questions.
 
RyanShort1 said:
Well, I did state it in the form of a personal preference, but one that I suspect is shared by others.

I’ve flown with a number of young bucks in the cockpit both as a CFI and as an aerial photographer and I have a pretty high tolerance for rookies that need to grow, but longer-term life choices and traits tend to be harder to change as you get older. No one is making a hard judgment about the OP specifically, since I don’t know him, but an HR department likely won’t dig that far, either, and they definitely do ask a lot of work-history questions.
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What I don’t understand is how you think staying at home to raise kids while a spouse works to earn income is somehow avoiding responsibility or exhibiting a personality trait not compatible with being a captain.

Perhaps I have jumped to an incorrect conclusion. Would you be willing to explain what it is about being a full time parent that makes you doubt someone having the correct personality to be a PIC?
 
Tarheelpilot said:
What I don’t understand is how you think staying at home to raise kids while a spouse works to earn income is somehow avoiding responsibility or exhibiting a personality trait not compatible with being a captain.

Perhaps I have jumped to an incorrect conclusion. Would you be willing to explain what it is about being a full time parent that makes you doubt someone having the correct personality to be a PIC?
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Generally speaking, captains need to forward thinking, self-motivated, ahead of the plane, taking the greater responsibility. Guys that are in a position where their current job is less income than the wife and end up staying home with the kids are in my experience almost universally guys who don't have the kind of drive that I'd be looking for in a captain if I was to have a group of applicants to pick from. Nothing more, nothing less, and it doesn't make them bad people, just not my first choice for particular kinds of jobs.

To the OP, you may be 100% different, and I know that Covid was a unique time, so don't take what I'm saying personally. I don't know you from Adam over the internet, I'm just trying to offer what I consider to be a realistic perspective that you can take or leave. Also, if you choose to go ahead, and make it to a regional, I'll be the first to admit that you earned it, and I was wrong.
 
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Weird generalization. In this day and age, there’s all kinds of life situations that people find themselves in and it doesn’t at all reflect on their level of ambition. The man doesn’t have to be the breadwinner of the family. If the wife has a higher paying job and it financially makes sense for the man to stay home with the kids, I don’t see at all how that reflects on their prospects of being a successful captain.
 
RyanB said:
Weird generalization. In this day and age, there’s all kinds of life situations that people find themselves in and it doesn’t at all reflect on their level of ambition. The man doesn’t have to be the breadwinner of the family. If the wife has a higher paying job and it financially makes sense for the man to stay home with the kids, I don’t see at all how that reflects on their prospects of being a successful captain.
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There are people that demand respect, and there are people that command respect. I don't really care how y'all feel about what a captain should or shouldn't be in "this day and age" - when push comes to shove on the flight deck due to an emergency, we all respect captains who's command of the situation rises above the occasion, and we discuss the aftermath of those who don't. Also, it generally takes a while to become well-seasoned and worthy of being a captain, it doesn't happen overnight.
 
RyanShort1 said:
Generally speaking, captains need to forward thinking, self-motivated, ahead of the plane, taking the greater responsibility. Guys that are in a position where their current job is less income than the wife and end up staying home with the kids are in my experience almost universally guys who don't have the kind of drive that I'd be looking for in a captain if I was to have a group of applicants to pick from. Nothing more, nothing less, and it doesn't make them bad people, just not my first choice for particular kinds of jobs.

To the OP, you may be 100% different, and I know that Covid was a unique time, so don't take what I'm saying personally. I don't know you from Adam over the internet, I'm just trying to offer what I consider to be a realistic perspective that you can take or leave. Also, if you choose to go ahead, and make it to a regional, I'll be the first to admit that you earned it, and I was wrong.
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Wow. I think that’s a very inappropriate bias to hold. I know several men that have decided to stay at home and raise kids that are very motivated and highly successful individuals. When mom is making 7 figures even a mainline captain is “low pay”.

Respectfully, I think you have this one wrong.
 
RyanShort1 said:
There are people that demand respect, and there are people that command respect. I don't really care how y'all feel about what a captain should or shouldn't be in "this day and age" - when push comes to shove on the flight deck due to an emergency, we all respect captains who's command of the situation rises above the occasion, and we discuss the aftermath of those who don't.
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You’re entitled to your opinion, but that’s incredibly narrow minded.
 
Tarheelpilot said:
When mom is making 7 figures even a mainline captain is “low pay”.
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Which makes "dad" a good "first officer."

I thought we were all about non-normative gender roles these days? Who's the one arguing for that in this thread? I didn't say dad needed to change, I said it might not fit his traits, from a non-specific point of view.
 
RyanB said:
Really weird thought process.
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Wait until you've flown with some students that need their hand-held for every decision. Some can get over it, some can't. Not the kind of person I want to be behind in a cockpit as the captain of an aircraft.
 
RyanShort1 said:
Which makes "dad" a good "first officer."

I thought we were all about non-normative gender roles these days? Who's the one arguing for that in this thread? I didn't say dad needed to change, I said it might not fit his traits, from a non-specific point of view.
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That’s dumb. I’m sorry man. But you are way off base. I’m not taking about gender at all. I’m not sure why you even brought it up. What I’m telling you is that you clearly have no clue what it takes to run a household and take care of kids all day if you truly believe that it’s an indication someone is not capable of being an an aircraft commander and effective leader of a crew.

We will just have to agree to disagree.
 
RyanShort1 said:
Wait until you've flown with some students that need their hand-held for every decision. Some can get over it, some can't. Not the kind of person I want to be behind in a cockpit as the captain of an aircraft.
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Again how does being a full time parent have anything to do with this statement.
 
Tarheelpilot said:
That’s dumb. I’m sorry man. But you are way off base. I’m not taking about gender at all. I’m not sure why you even brought it up. What I’m telling you is that you clearly have no clue what it takes to run a household and take care of kids all day if you truly believe that it’s an indication someone is not capable of being an an aircraft commander and effective leader of a crew.

We will just have to agree to disagree.
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I only took care of my kids all day the last three days… SMH.
 
RyanShort1 said:
I only took care of my kids all day the last three days… SMH.
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What does that mean?

Edit:

I’m trying pretty hard to understand your position but I have to be honest. If you think that being a full time parent is somehow indicative of someone not being up to the task of being a captain my opinion of you has been seriously overrated for a while. Frankly this attitude you have, in my opinion, with experience as a captain, instructor and check airman at a 121 airline would make you a very poor candidate for upgrade. Sweeping generalization such as you have demonstrated here is a very bad character trait in a leader.

I’m honestly very surprised you would hold such a narrow minded and frankly ignorant opinion.
 
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Tarheelpilot said:
What I’m telling you is that you clearly have no clue what it takes to run a household and take care of kids all day if you truly believe that it’s an indication someone is not capable of being an an aircraft commander and effective leader of a crew.

We will just have to agree to disagree.
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Somehow I think we’d actually agree if we were discussing this in person but I think you’re failing to comprehend what I’m saying.
 
Me ten.. or more. DO NOT get a loan for a school. Pay as you go, anything but prepaying a school.

If ya wanna get creative, consider a loan for an adequate (this is NOT trivial…) plane, hire a young new CFI full time (who needs the hours). Your life experienced, think out of the box. Join a flight club for a better plane rate, looks like you can fly when most can’t…

To do this, you gotta get smart and micro manage every aspect of your training. Hold those you hire to high standards with consequences.

SOME ONE has to do this. It requires leadership and managerial skills, which are expensive. That’s where you can save money. A good plane is an investment.

Food for thought.
 
I started flying at 45 years old. I never intended to fly for a living, but I chipped away at ratings one by one. PPL 2016, SES 2018, Intrument 2020, commercial 2022. First flying job, part 91 January '23. Hated the location and didn't get to fly much, quit the job. Working on CFI now, pretty much ready for check ride, I am going to teach backcountry and tailwheel, and floats, not to build hours, but to actually teach. In the mean time, picked up a VFR 135 job in Alaska for the summer. It can be done, but if you don't love to fly, its just another job.
 
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