"Real world" XC planning

[RalphInCA]

A recent thread about using FSS briefer while planning an XC got me thinking:

What is the "modern" way to plan a cross country?

I know in the 80s,I would sit down with a sectional, plotter and highlighter, draw out the flight, write down waypoints, distances between waypoints, the time it will take me to get to each waypoint, etc. would also write down frequencies needed, and any other useful info. Then would call FSS for a briefing, file the flight plan.

How do you all do it now, in the Foreflight, ipad, Internet age?

 

[Jaybird180]

Slide rules, protractors, sextants and rock, paper, scizzors

 

[James331]

Fltplan.com and foreflight

 

[RalphInCA]

Fltplan.com and foreflight

Thanks, that's what I was looking for.

Do you use paper at all? Do you have to call anybody?

 

[LDJones]

You start by entering the departure point and destination in ForeFlight. Then, if it's a long trip, you turn on the gas price feature, then start rubber banding your route to the cheapest fuel stops based on your comfort ranges. Everything after that is pretty much automatic!

 

[Shawn]

Skyvector.com at home for plotting, Foreflight for flight planing, nav log, file and standard briefing, call FSS en route to airport for abbreviated briefing mainly for TFRs.

I remember learning and doing the long hand flight planning with wind corrections and all, printing weather chart out and filing a flight plan by hand and calling it then and my CFI telling me, "You need to know how to do all this, but in reality it will be the last time you ever do!"

Did my IFR checkride cross country flight plan 100% digital and on Foreflight and DPE was more than happy.

 

[Everskyward]

I don't use an iPad or tablet program but I do use fltplan.com and print out the results.

 

[Cpt_Kirk]

I takeoff and won't fly more than three hours burning 10gph per engine.

Charts and plotters... LOL.

 

[cowman]

Open foreflight. Type in departure airport, type in destination. Open up details for runway/notams/frequencies/etc. check METARS/taf. look along route for any obstacles/airspace/etc. look at radar view.

TFRs would show up. Time in route, distance, fuel used, and wind correction calculated for you.


I check other sources but this pretty well covers it.

 

[Jay Honeck]

Open Garmin Pilot. Type in destination airport.

Watch radar and cloud overlays as they load. Watch airports as they turn blue (good VFR) or not. Check for TFRs.

If all good, call FSS -- not for weather (which I already know, ad nauseum, with continuous in-flight updates on my EFIS) but for pop-up VIP TFRs.

Launch.

I now put less effort into flight planning to Oshkosh than we once did for a 50 mile x-country flight in Wisconsin. The technology is abso-freaking-amazing.

 

[NoHeat]

Fltplan and Foreflight.

Three kinds of paper go with me: a printout of the Fltplan nav log, a few plates for my destination, and WAC charts.

The latter two are because a 5 hour flight lasts longer than my ipad battery. During much of the cruise the ipad is off, so that I'll have enough juice for the approach and an alternate.

 

[Everskyward]

I takeoff and won't fly more than three hours burning 10gph per engine.

Charts and plotters... LOL.

That too, when I was flying VFR. Only I think I figured 14-15 gph and I wouldn't fly much more than 4 hours.

 

[dans2992]

Foreflight for weather, NOTAMs and TFRs and maybe fltplan.com if I want common routes (or to file) an IFR flight plan.

I never call anyone, unless I'm crossing an international border.

 

[mjburian]

Foreflight for weather, NOTAMs and TFRs and maybe fltplan.com if I want common routes (or to file) an IFR flight plan.

I never call anyone, unless I'm crossing an international border.

Why not find common routes and file through ForeFlight? (Serious question as I've been using ForeFlight for those tasks.)

 

[James331]

Prit up my flight plan from fltplan, print up my approach plates and I have a hard copy of all paper charts aboard.

 

[dans2992]

Why not find common routes and file through ForeFlight? (Serious question as I've been using ForeFlight for those tasks.)

I've looked at ForeFlight for that, and tried it a few times. Two issues:

1. If I do the planning on my iPad, I usually like to get the flight plan all ready to file in advance, so I just have to hit "file" once I accurately know when we'll be loading up to depart. I usually don't take my iPad with me at the destination though, and since ForeFlight does not (yet) sync the flight plans, I cannot file from my phone enroute to the airport. Fltplan.com is web-based, so I can use any combination of devices for prep and/or pressing the button to file. Also, I can do the planning and queue up the flightplan on fltplan.com from a big-screen PC if I want.

2. Fltplan.com seems to have more of a variety of ATC cleared routes than ForeFlight. They also show aircraft type and a date when that route was last issued.

It can be done via Foreflight, but for now, for IFR flight plans, I think fltplan.com still has a slight edge.

 

[BillTIZ]

Skyvector for general planning. FlyQ for flight planning, printed flight plans and charts.
ForeFlight for weather briefing, filing, inflight use.
Also have DUAT on the iPad for Wx updates and NOTAM checks.

 

[onwards]

Foreflight (or one of its ilk) + skyvector. If it's a place I haven't been, I'll usually post here too for advice from locals.

Paper? I think I've only filled three navlogs in my life - during training

 

[mjburian]

I've looked at ForeFlight for that, and tried it a few times. Two issues:

1. If I do the planning on my iPad, I usually like to get the flight plan all ready to file in advance, so I just have to hit "file" once I accurately know when we'll be loading up to depart. I usually don't take my iPad with me at the destination though, and since ForeFlight does not (yet) sync the flight plans, I cannot file from my phone enroute to the airport. Fltplan.com is web-based, so I can use any combination of devices for prep and/or pressing the button to file. Also, I can do the planning and queue up the flightplan on fltplan.com from a big-screen PC if I want.

2. Fltplan.com seems to have more of a variety of ATC cleared routes than ForeFlight. They also show aircraft type and a date when that route was last issued.

It can be done via Foreflight, but for now, for IFR flight plans, I think fltplan.com still has a slight edge.

I appreciate the insight. Truth is, I've been using ForeFlight for a few years but have never understood how/why/when to use FltPlan.com.

I tend to pre-plan in SkyVector from my desk (at least until ForeFlight offers a web option) and then finalize the plan in ForeFlight on the iPad. I file and then share the route with my phone (so it's easy to make a change and refile on the go, if necessary). I always have my iPad and iPhone with me during flight and at the destination, but haven't activated the 3G service on the iPad, so return filing is often done from my iPhone (unless I can get a wifi signal and use my iPad instead).

 

[dans2992]

For me, part of it may just be due to the fact I've always used fltplan.com prior to ForeFlight even existing.

 

[jordane93]

Fltplan.com for the x country planning. DUATS and aviationweather.gov for weather. Sometimes I'll call 1800WXBRIEF. I don't use a pencil and plotter unless I'm doing it for a checkride. Most of the time it's direct to destination in the GPS when I'm VFR.

 

[Henning]

Look at a chart, measure it with my fingers for miles/time/fuel, call the briefer talk to them while I'm looking at the computer at the FBO or my iPad seeing the satellite and radar images, make whatever adjustments to the flight plan to compensate for weather systems, recheck fuel requirements walking my fingers across the planning chart and head out to the airplane.

 

[Gucci Pilot]

• Aviationweather.gov for weather
• skyvector.com for general route planning
• notams.faa.gov for a general NOTAMS overview
• tfr.faa.gov for general TFR overview
• Then to be legal, plug it all into DUATS/DUAT, check to make sure nothing significant changed and file.

That was all before ForeFlight came out. Now I use Foreflight for pretty much everything except general route planning I still do on skyvector. I like to have a big screen and mouse at my disposal to drag and drop.

 

[Geico266]

ADDS Weather, AirNav Fuel planner. All you need for planning. The AirNav fuel calculator is cool because it gives you prices, mogas locations, and 100ll along your route.

http://www.aviationweather.gov/adds/

http://www.airnav.com/plan/fuel/

I use XM Weather in route.

 

[GeorgeC]

Skyvector for gross planning.

3 days out, start watching weather, and whether the models agree or disagree.

Day before, start considering winds and altitudes, watch TAFs as they come in to focus.

Day of, check foreflight for TFRs and NOTAMs and AIRMETs. Look outside. Drive to airport. Look outside. Ask other pilots what it's like up there. Pee 427 times. Green dot in foreflight? Fuggedabout it, go fly.

 

[alfadog]

Great question and responses! I am not IR and my favorite way to navigate is pilotage. I love to keep my head out of the cockpit. I don't use a tablet nor want to although I am considering making the change. I use Skyvector to plan the route. I drop in visual waypoints every 20 - 30 minutes of flight on the Sv route. Unfortunately Sv does not have a satellite layer so I might bop over to VFRMap.com to see what my waypoint looks like from the air and modify it as desired. I print out the Sv flightplan showing times to my waypoints. I use Wunderground.com to check weather maps and forecasts then Aviationweather.gov the morning of the flight for radar and TAF/METAR. I get a full briefing over the phone before launching. Then on the return trip, if I am in a hurry, I just punch in Direct To the home drome on the 430W - LOL.

 

[silver-eagle]

Voyager 4 by Seattle Aviation (from DUAT) in Win7. AOPA FLYQ on Win7 and firefox. Skyvector.com. Or, to keep the skill, charts, rule, calculator. All good exercises especially the W&B. Of course, once in the plane, I have the GPS. The 496 does all as well.

 

[eman1200]

a lot of what I do has already been mentioned:
- skyvector.com - a lot of skyvector for general overview, general airspace, rubberbanding, etc....I also use this to quickly compare approx flight times between the cherokees/archer I fly to the mooney that I would eventually like to fly. for example, if I punch in 8A6 to KBCT (charlotte area to boca raton fla) it doesn't look like a fun trip at 90kt gs but at 140kts it extremely doable.
- fltplan.com - mainly for the quick computation of winds for whatever trip I'm thinking of taking. it'll also show you flight time at different FL's
- garmin pilot - for the duats briefing. also use this in flight for it's awesomeness
- google maps/earth - that's right, I like to see the airport/runway/fbo's etc....I just like to be as familiar with what I'll be landing on as possible. I'll also "fly" my path on the map to look for obvious landmarks
- weather, of course - aviationweather, usairnet.com
- wxbrief - don't use it much anymore, but if/when I do it's abbreviated, looking for tfr's mainly

 

[CTLSi]

Try iFlightPlanner.com it has all of it in one place.

Visual route plan, navglog gen (includes fuel, WC, ETA), W&B calc, full weather brief, DUATS filing, passenger itinerary gen, saved plans for future mod or recall, iPad version (i make my plans online then load them via SD card into my Garmin).

 

[MickYoumans]

I fly with WingX on my iPad.
1) Enter starting airport and destination.
2) Add waypoints as needed to avoid TFRs and restricted areas.
3) If flight is longer than 4 hours I look for a good fuel stop in between.
4) Go to the route page and pull up the altitude option to pick the most favorable altitude based on winds aloft and length of trip.
5) If making a flight where ceiling versus terrain is a concern, add waypoints as needed to avoid terrain that could be a problem. The simulator in WingX is great for this. Just run the simulator at your anticipated flight altitude below the ceiling, turn on the terrain option and look for red / yellow problem areas and add waypoints to navigate around them.
6) Go to DUATS page in WingX to get a flight brief for weather and NOTAMs.
7) Determine which runway will probably be the active runway at my destination so I can plan ahead accordingly.
8) Even though radio frequencies for different airports are just a tap away on WingX, I still like to jot down a list of frequencies in the order I anticipate using as ATC passes me from one controller to the next so I can have the next frequency already loaded in standby ready to toggle when passed off.
9) Put my iPad in my yoke mount and my iLevil on the dash and go fly.

 

[RalphInCA]

Great stuff guys, thanks.

Several of you have mentioned fltplan.com.

If I use Foreflight, what do I need fltplan for?

 

[zaitcev]

I know in the 80s, I would sit down with a sectional, plotter and highlighter, draw out the flight, write down waypoints, distances between waypoints, the time it will take me to get to each waypoint, etc. would also write down frequencies needed, and any other useful info. Then would call FSS for a briefing, file the flight plan.

I'm flying for sport, essentially, so I do all that, only I use electronic aids to arrange the information (e.g. Skyvector, DUATS breefing). It's more entertaining to keep a sectional on your lap and track the progress on it. I never had good luck with highlighters, so I use a thick soft pencil.

For frequencies, I steal airport diagrams for every airfield (from Skyvector), print them out, cut them with scissors to Jepp size, then seven-punch them. If there's no diagram, I draw it and sign runways and taxiways. Then I read notes carefuly and mark field elevations, odd TPAs, right-hand patterns, and find the Center frequency if not available.

I can land at random fields just using a sectional: listen to AWOS, take the elevation and 1000 for TPA, read little "RP" for non-standard traffic, etc. But it's inconvenient... I want to have phone numbers there too and diagrams are quite useful to know when to back-taxi or not, etc.

 

[Jaybird180]

I appreciate the insight. Truth is, I've been using ForeFlight for a few years but have never understood how/why/when to use FltPlan.com.

I tend to pre-plan in SkyVector from my desk (at least until ForeFlight offers a web option) and then finalize the plan in ForeFlight on the iPad. I file and then share the route with my phone (so it's easy to make a change and refile on the go, if necessary). I always have my iPad and iPhone with me during flight and at the destination, but haven't activated the 3G service on the iPad, so return filing is often done from my iPhone (unless I can get a wifi signal and use my iPad instead).

You can tether your iStuff for filing

 

[mjburian]

You can tether your iStuff for filing

I could do that if AT&T didn't charge me extra to do that (last I checked, they wanted $60/month since I'm grandfathered into their unlimited data plan). It's something I've considered doing a few different times, but never had enough need to actually pull the trigger.

 

[poadeleted20]

ADDS and ForeFlight.

 

[Jaybird180]

I could do that if AT&T didn't charge me extra to do that (last I checked, they wanted $60/month since I'm grandfathered into their unlimited data plan). It's something I've considered doing a few different times, but never had enough need to actually pull the trigger.

Yeah, knowhatchamean. Verizon got us when we upgraded phones and we lost unlimited data....basterds

 

[CTLSi]

I'm flying for sport, essentially, so I do all that, only I use electronic aids to arrange the information (e.g. Skyvector, DUATS breefing). It's more entertaining to keep a sectional on your lap and track the progress on it. I never had good luck with highlighters, so I use a thick soft pencil.

For frequencies, I steal airport diagrams for every airfield (from Skyvector), print them out, cut them with scissors to Jepp size, then seven-punch them. If there's no diagram, I draw it and sign runways and taxiways. Then I read notes carefuly and mark field elevations, odd TPAs, right-hand patterns, and find the Center frequency if not available.

I can land at random fields just using a sectional: listen to AWOS, take the elevation and 1000 for TPA, read little "RP" for non-standard traffic, etc. But it's inconvenient... I want to have phone numbers there too and diagrams are quite useful to know when to back-taxi or not, etc.

Do you fly over 100nm? If so, you should file a flight plan once in a while so they will come looking for you if you go down.

 

[JoeSelch]

Do you fly over 100nm? If so, you should file a flight plan once in a while so they will come looking for you if you go down.

What does flying "over 100nm" have to do with the need for search and rescue?

Perhaps you meant to say something like "uninhabited terrain"?

 

[CTLSi]

What does flying "over 100nm" have to do with the need for search and rescue?

Perhaps you meant to say something like "uninhabited terrain"?

I gave an arbitrary distance from his home field. Choose any number when you are far enough away from home that prevents people driving around looking for you. Hows that?

 

[JoeSelch]

I gave an arbitrary distance from his home field. Choose any number when you are far enough away from home that prevents people driving around looking for you. Hows that?

No better.
There are many airports one could fly thousands of miles from and not have this be an issue.
There are others where you wouldn't even need to clear the fence.

The point is being in a position to need S&R because that's likely to be the only way one might be found in a somewhat timely fashion.