Read the NOTAMS

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Tscottme

Pre-Flight
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Scott M.
At my airport they have construction going on for almost 2 months. The original NOTAM indicated the airport closure would be for 30 days.
Every week and a couple of times each weekend we still get aircraft making it into the pattern and announcing their position before they hear from Unicom the airport is closed. NetJets has scheduled one or more flights into the airport during the closure. A LearJet announced himself on the RNAV approach before learning of the closure. He had passengers and a rental car was delivered to the airport for them. He diverted.

Our NOTAM is on the FAA website and is accurate. Checking NOTAMS is required and easy with the internet.
I prefer not to disclose the particular airport for certain reasons.
 
Isn't everyone using flight planning apps these days? I assume they would tell you if you are trying something that's not possible.
 
Baked Potato said:
Isn't everyone using flight planning apps these days? I assume they would tell you if you are trying something that's not We all get to dig through dozens of pages of info to ferret out the surplus closed.
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We all get to dig through dozens of pages of briefing info to find out the airport is closed.
 
I did a low pass instrument approach at a closed airport last weekend. I announced. I wondered if the workers on the runway were listening or if they were getting nervous as I approached.
 
Tscottme said:
At my airport they have construction going on for almost 2 months. The original NOTAM indicated the airport closure would be for 30 days.
Every week and a couple of times each weekend we still get aircraft making it into the pattern and announcing their position before they hear from Unicom the airport is closed. NetJets has scheduled one or more flights into the airport during the closure. A LearJet announced himself on the RNAV approach before learning of the closure. He had passengers and a rental car was delivered to the airport for them. He diverted.

Our NOTAM is on the FAA website and is accurate. Checking NOTAMS is required and easy with the internet.
I prefer not to disclose the particular airport for certain reasons.
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Happens all the time at my airport too. No one reads NOTAMs, and even if they do the important ones easily get lost in the noise.
 
Airports with new control towers are always surprising for several months.
 
I'm doing a 30 minute flight in central California in my light sport aircraft and there are notams about not flying over certain parts of africa...its no wonder non-professional pilots don't wade thru every ridiculous line of notes. The always-on Beale AFB TFR takes up almost 2 pages. The notam process has deteriorated into a cya process that does little to enhance aviation safety or the accurate transmission of important, relevant, safety of flight issues.
 
Wish all airports would publish NOTAMs. Landed at a place that was supposed to have self serve fuel. Went to the pump and card kept getting declined. I called the number on the machine and the airport manager said "oh, the card machine has been down for weeks, you can pay the local shop and they pump the gas for you with their master key". Problem was, local shop is only open M-F, I was there on a Saturday and the guy on the phone was on vacation somewhere abroad so he almost ended the call with "good luck". Before he could though, I yelled some not very nice words through the phone and he got someone to come out to fuel us up, that person sure wasn't happy based on his demeanour. Two days later, I saw they put a NOTAM out saying fuel is only available during business hours M-F.
 
All you need is a cellphone on your way to the airport. Speed dial FSS and tell them you've briefed the weather online but just want to see "if there are any NOTAMs". It takes a minute or two away from listening to the car radio as you drive, and you always have a government record of checking for them.
 
PaulS said:
The notam system sucks, it needs to be fixed. Shouldn't be a revelation to anyone who has been a pilot for more than a few months.
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Agreed, but if a pilot googles FAA NOTAM database and the airport identifier it's easy to find them. I don't know why weather and NOTAMS are full of abbreviations.
 
Tscottme said:
Agreed, but if a pilot googles FAA NOTAM database and the airport identifier it's easy to find them. I don't know why weather and NOTAMS are full of abbreviations.
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Which is not an official source of information...

Federal Aviation Administration: NOTAM Search

notams.aim.faa.gov notams.aim.faa.gov

Welcome to NOTAM Search​

This site is informational in nature and is designed to assist pilots and aircrews for flight planning and familiarization.It may be used in conjunction with other pre-flight information sources needed to satisfy all the requirements of 14 CFR 91.103 and is not to be considered as a sole source of information to meet all pre-flight action.

Due to system processing delays, recently entered NOTAMs may not be displayed.
 
Wonder if we could task chat AI or something to better organize notams (of course no one would do it due to liability) by personal decision tree

I filed a few months ago from Virginia to Michigan and got something crazy like 200 pages of NOTAMs
 
Tscottme said:
I don't know why weather and NOTAMS are full of abbreviations.
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Because they’re stuck in the 1930s, and think that because guys struggled for years to finally master the abrvtns reqd by ancnt nrw bdwth tty, it’s good enough to keep going with it. There are still pilots who think the same. It comes across as a combination of clinging to lost youth and hazing the new guys. Much like the anti-GPS crowd, especially the mossbacks who would go to war (if they could move fast enough) to preserve 1950s navigation technology.

If someone can afford a plane, they can afford an iPad and Foreflight, and the 20 minutes it takes to get competent at basic flight planning and finding NOTAMs.
 
I’ve been stung a few times, now I read as much as I can.
How recent a check are we expected to do?
I’d like to check while climbing aboard but it’s not really possible.
Is 1 hour before, too early to call it good?

I have submitted 3 ASRSs explaining how Notams are not focused enough, the length of a small novel (I literally did a word count on one), and a detriment to safety b/c pilots can’t possibly read it all so they miss vital stuff.
 
NOTAMS are for sissies, and I am one.
But, the system is dumb. Too bad they couldn't make useful changes when they made the effort to change it from "Notices to Airmen" to Notices to Air Mission, whatever stupidity that is.
 
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RyanShort1 said:
NOTAMS are for sissies, and I am one.
But, the system is dumb. Too bad they couldn't make useful changes with then changed it from "Notices to Airmen" to Notices to Air Mission, whatever stupidity that is.
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Air Missions - then NOTAMs really don’t apply to me. Give us a break, FAA. I don’t fly a pointy gray jet, and the only weapons on board my little airborne Miata is my sarcastic mouth. Not flyng any “missions” down here.
 
For the OP, does the airport have ATIS/AWOS? and is the runway closure broadcast on that? Not making excuses for your attempted landings, but that would seem like belt and suspenders. My airport includes the status of the on-field restaurant in the ATIS to cut down on questions.
 
Hang 4 said:
For the OP, does the airport have ATIS/AWOS? and is the runway closure broadcast on that? Not making excuses for your attempted landings, but that would seem like belt and suspenders. My airport includes the status of the on-field restaurant in the ATIS to cut down on questions.
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People here have heard me say this many times before, but an ATIS and ASOS/AWOS are two different things that have similar if not overlapping missions.

ASOS or AWOS are automated weather reporting stations. Some newer AWOS systems allow for the airport to add additional recorded messages, but not all. No Federally owned ASOS systems do at all. Do not count on ASOS/AWOS to provide anything more than the weather.
 
Not trying to pass responsibility but I’ve seen some airports that just have too many dang NOTAMS and then the terminology can sometimes get confusing. Foreflight usually prioritizes NOTAMS and hides either older ones or ones it thinks is not important.

Although I do also believe if you are flying longer distances that new NOTAMs are added while en route that didn’t show up beforehand.

Some NOTAMs that I saw for the first time were a portion of the runway was closed (while the other runway was closed) and all runways had the yellow X on them. So I did a low pass to observe and see what was going on, then to see which portion was open to plan my landing spot. Now this is all at night after a long flight where I questioned how much fuel I had remaining so this did spike my workload. (There was plenty of fuel but those old fuel gauges do make your brain question it)

And a temporary tower NOTAM with different frequencies.

Just as you thought you did an excellent job flight planning the night before, the morning of and just before the flight. :p
 
I also assumed Foreflight would not hide important NOTAMs such as runway closed, temporary tower, etc. and the AWOS in these cases didn’t mention the NOTAMs either.
 
Why does this happen? In part, because many NOTAMS are a waste of space and then all NOTAMS become background noise...

Example:

UBG MMV 05/144 UBG AIRSPACE UAS WI AN AREA DEFINED AS 0.5NM RADIUS OF 445815.80N1225216.50W (6.7NM NE SLE) SFC-20FT AGL 202308161400-202308202300

DTW APRON J PAD PARKING RAMP CLOSED Except FOR OVERNIGHT PARKING

MIE DEFINED AS 0.3NM RADIUS OF 400144.30N0854635.70W (8.9NM WSW AID) SFC-910FT (SFC-25FT AGL) 2308111100-2308182100

BOS Runway 15R/33L CLOSED

FNT Taxiway A5 SFC PAINTED Holding PSN SIGNS NOT STD
 
When most else falls short, I’m a fan of a big yellow ‘X’, lighted at night.

I think most should put critical Notams in red, like runway closures compared to the unlighted obstacle 2 miles from the airport.

Yeah I’ll look ahead of time, then use Garmin Pilot as plans change in flight.
 
I remember a notam that listed what seemed like every tree (height AGL, direction, distance in feet) within 2000 feet of a runway surface. I guess it was a knee jerk reaction to someone hitting a tree on takeoff. That was a stupid long list for an airport that was essentially on a wide open patch of land.
 
Hang 4 said:
My airport includes the status of the on-field restaurant in the ATIS to cut down on questions.
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:cheers:
Yeah - ours (ATIS broadcast) did also when the on-field restaurant was unexpectedly closed. Covid then management change and what ever was impacting the restaurant. The restaurant draws a decent amount of traffic. I think this ATIS broadcast also notifies when nearby Presidential TFR is in effect. Seems reasonable amount of info without going overboard.
 
OTOH, I planned a fuel stop at Kampel airport (2N5). No NOTAM, but there were X's on the runway when I got there (I diverted to Carlisle).

Still no NOTAM, and the X's are still visible on Google Earth.
 
Dana said:
OTOH, I planned a fuel stop at Kampel airport (2N5). No NOTAM, but there were X's on the runway when I got there (I diverted to Carlisle).

Still no NOTAM, and the X's are still visible on Google Earth.
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Ok, you've got me there. I looked on Google Earth and I see all of these small X's at one end. Obviously not a typical runway closure X. Is there more to this story?

1692277837577.png
 
The other end is clearer .. I don't know what the story is.

1692278051449.png
 
EdFred said:
Which is not an official source of information...

Federal Aviation Administration: NOTAM Search

notams.aim.faa.gov notams.aim.faa.gov

Welcome to NOTAM Search​

This site is informational in nature and is designed to assist pilots and aircrews for flight planning and familiarization.It may be used in conjunction with other pre-flight information sources needed to satisfy all the requirements of 14 CFR 91.103 and is not to be considered as a sole source of information to meet all pre-flight action.

Due to system processing delays, recently entered NOTAMs may not be displayed.
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I don't read that as saying that it is not an official NOTAM source. I read that as saying that it cannot serve as the ONLY source to meet 91.103, because of course, NOTAMs are just one part of preflight planning. So to me, it's saying "you can't just check this site and go. Don't forget about weight and balance and takeoff length and airspace, etc., etc."
 
RussR said:
I don't read that as saying that it is not an official NOTAM source. I read that as saying that it cannot serve as the ONLY source to meet 91.103, because of course, NOTAMs are just one part of preflight planning. So to me, it's saying "you can't just check this site and go. Don't forget about weight and balance and takeoff length and airspace, etc., etc."
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I believe the key to that disclaimer has more to do with using this source produces no official record that you did check your NOTAMs. If an incident or accident would occur, you would have no proof of your preflight planning like you would using an official briefing source that is able to be linked to you and documented. I suppose you could print off the search results...assuming the papers don't burn up in the post crash fire.
 
midwestpa24 said:
If an incident or accident would occur, you would have no proof of your preflight planning like you would using an official briefing source that is able to be linked to you and documented. I suppose you could print off the search results...assuming the papers don't burn up in the post crash fire.
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There is no better way of protecting yourself than calling FSS to inquire about NOTAMS on your way to the airport. You've got documentation of the call on your cellphone even if they somehow claim to have lost theirs.
 
Hang 4 said:
For the OP, does the airport have ATIS/AWOS? and is the runway closure broadcast on that? Not making excuses for your attempted landings, but that would seem like belt and suspenders. My airport includes the status of the on-field restaurant in the ATIS to cut down on questions.
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That would be very helpful.

Just did this a couple of week ago. Flew to KMRB, asked ground for taxi to the restaurant and was told they could do that, but it was closed on Sunday. So asked for taxi to takeoff and went to KFDK.
 
Pinecone said:
That would be very helpful.

Just did this a couple of week ago. Flew to KMRB, asked ground for taxi to the restaurant and was told they could do that, but it was closed on Sunday. So asked for taxi to takeoff and went to KFDK.
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I can see it being a nice thing to include information if the restaurant is unexpectedly closed, but for regularly scheduled hours, that doesn't seem necessary.
 
dbahn said:
There is no better way of protecting yourself than calling FSS to inquire about NOTAMS on your way to the airport. You've got documentation of the call on your cellphone even if they somehow claim to have lost theirs.
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Brief on 1800wxbrief and the send an e with all of your preflight activities.
 
Ok, putting restaurant closings on anything seems just odd to me when the others post about information overload.
 
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