Re: The Guy who is Ticked off at PofA

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Jay Honeck

Jay Honeck

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Jay Honeck
Since that thread was unceremoniously closed in the middle of my reply, I think we should start another one aimed at the OP. Maybe it will help?

The issue (I guess?) is whether PofA should remove threads when they are proven to be bogus. Although I agree with the guy in principle -- yes, I think they SHOULD be removed, if proven to be wrong -- it would be helpful to know what he was talking about. Did someone post some smack about his business here?

For example, I have had some success getting bogus "reviews" of our businesses removed from travel websites after we proved that they were written by guests whom we had thrown out for being drunk and disorderly. It's only been necessary twice in ten years, and it is a difficult, time-consuming, and often fruitless pursuit -- but I do it anyway because I'm a stubborn German. :lol:

Frankly, I've had better luck (and more fun) rebutting the fake reviews in the same forum. It's way more fun to make a drunk idiot look like, well, a drunk idiot in a very public forum. :yes:

Anyway, I'm sure it's a sensitive situation, so it may not be possible -- but it would be good to know more about what happened?
 
Jay Honeck said:
Since that thread was unceremoniously closed in the middle of my reply, I think we should start another one aimed at the OP. Maybe it will help?

The issue (I guess?) is whether PofA should remove threads when they are proven to be bogus. Although I agree with the guy in principle -- yes, I think they SHOULD be removed, if proven to be wrong -- it would be helpful to know what he was talking about. Did someone post some smack about his business here?

For example, I have had some success getting bogus "reviews" of our businesses removed from travel websites after we proved that they were written by guests whom we had thrown out for being drunk and disorderly. It's only been necessary twice in ten years, and it is a difficult, time-consuming, and often fruitless pursuit -- but I do it anyway because I'm a stubborn German. :lol:

Frankly, I've had better luck (and more fun) rebutting the fake reviews in the same forum. It's way more fun to make a drunk idiot look like, well, a drunk idiot in a very public forum. :yes:

Anyway, I'm sure it's a sensitive situation, so it may not be possible -- but it would be good to know more about what happened?
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I seriously doubt OP wants to tell you what thread was in question, I doubt it because I have a feeling, just a feeling, he doesn't want to defend it. I can't remember the company but someone came on here whining about a company and the company responded and it turned into great PR for that company, I'm not getting that good vibe from OP.
 
bartmc said:
I seriously doubt OP wants to tell you what thread was in question, I doubt it because I have a feeling, just a feeling, he doesn't want to defend it.
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Well, if he can't defend it, his entire line of reasoning just crumbled. :rolleyes:

In which case, what was the point of coming here bitching? :dunno:
 
Jay Honeck said:
Well, if he can't defend it, his entire line of reasoning just crumbled. :rolleyes:

In which case, what was the point of coming here bitching? :dunno:
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22383352.jpg
 
Alias- You cricitze those who are in control and they close the thread. I have tried for months, and I mean Months to get this resolved. And today, I have had enough. I am simply asking for the thread/post to be removed as it is without merit. For those of you who think I am Whinning, I ask if your lively hood (Your Job) depended on the truth and someone got on this board and attacked you without ever having to substantiate their claims. Would you yourself also be upset after you have tried repeatley to get some one in management to look into the situation? I mean I have emailed, PM, tried to call, (can't find a number anywhere to call) to no avail. When I did PM someone, they come back and tell me honestly I would give up if I we're you. Management isn't going to do anything about it. So, My reputation and intergity gets flushed down the drain, because any nitwit with a keyboard can type what ever they want.

Jay Honeck said:
Since that thread was unceremoniously closed in the middle of my reply, I think we should start another one aimed at the OP. Maybe it will help?

The issue (I guess?) is whether PofA should remove threads when they are proven to be bogus. Although I agree with the guy in principle -- yes, I think they SHOULD be removed, if proven to be wrong -- it would be helpful to know what he was talking about. Did someone post some smack about his business here?

For example, I have had some success getting bogus "reviews" of our businesses removed from travel websites after we proved that they were written by guests whom we had thrown out for being drunk and disorderly. It's only been necessary twice in ten years, and it is a difficult, time-consuming, and often fruitless pursuit -- but I do it anyway because I'm a stubborn German. :lol:

Frankly, I've had better luck (and more fun) rebutting the fake reviews in the same forum. It's way more fun to make a drunk idiot look like, well, a drunk idiot in a very public forum. :yes:

Anyway, I'm sure it's a sensitive situation, so it may not be possible -- but it would be good to know more about what happened?
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It's about making the users of POA aware that their website and the actions of their management team are in quesiton.

Jay Honeck said:
Well, if he can't defend it, his entire line of reasoning just crumbled. :rolleyes:

In which case, what was the point of coming here bitching? :dunno:
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Can you be more specific? Followers of both threads haven't a clue what the hell you're talking about.
 
Dominque said:
Alias- You cricitze those who are in control and they close the thread. I have tried for months, and I mean Months to get this resolved. And today, I have had enough. I am simply asking for the thread/post to be removed as it is without merit. For those of you who think I am Whinning, I ask if your lively hood (Your Job) depended on the truth and someone got on this board and attacked you without ever having to substantiate their claims. Would you yourself also be upset after you have tried repeatley to get some one in management to look into the situation? I mean I have emailed, PM, tried to call, (can't find a number anywhere to call) to no avail. When I did PM someone, they come back and tell me honestly I would give up if I we're you. Management isn't going to do anything about it. So, My reputation and intergity gets flushed down the drain, because any nitwit with a keyboard can type what ever they want.
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You got your thread closed because you posted contents of a private message.
 
His little green thingie is still lit,,, so he is still online...

Apparently his mouth far exceeds the size of his testicles....

Speak up Dominque.......

We would like to read the thread you have issues with..
 
My discussion here is centerd around POA responsibility to adiquatly protect memebers of the flying public who are not members of POA. I found this posters comments when I did a search on my company. His comments are without merit. They would never stand up in a court of law, that is why he has never filed a court case. However, because he is miffed he takes his comments to a pubic bulletin board. In his post, he claims his sole pupose is to make his comments number one on a websearch. Well, I am sorry to tell you that this is Libel. If you can not back this information up, and the information you have posted financially effects a business or person you can be help accountable. POA needs to understand that, yes they are not in control of what users may post. But when this information is brought to their attention. i.e. through a management council, they are then responsible to make an attempt to validate the information being posted. If not, they also can be held accountable to being a party to the original poster. Freedom of Speach yes, Ability to broadcast an unsubstaintiated claim when advised of such, NO.
 
Dominque said:
Alias- You cricitze those who are in control and they close the thread. I have tried for months, and I mean Months to get this resolved. And today, I have had enough. I am simply asking for the thread/post to be removed as it is without merit. For those of you who think I am Whinning, I ask if your lively hood (Your Job) depended on the truth and someone got on this board and attacked you without ever having to substantiate their claims. Would you yourself also be upset after you have tried repeatley to get some one in management to look into the situation? I mean I have emailed, PM, tried to call, (can't find a number anywhere to call) to no avail. When I did PM someone, they come back and tell me honestly I would give up if I we're you. Management isn't going to do anything about it. So, My reputation and intergity gets flushed down the drain, because any nitwit with a keyboard can type what ever they want.
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Good luck with your attempts to get satisfaction. From a couple past experiences with PoA management I do not disbelieve your tale. My experiences:

(1) I have had two posts removed by the moderators of PoA. The only content of those two posts was the text of the post I was responding to, the text of one of the rules of conduct that I thought the original post was violating, and a winking smiley emoticon. Nothing more. I thought the smiley would show there was no strong feeling involved.

Private discussion with one of the moderators indicated I had allegedly run afoul of an unwritten rule and the following catch all was being applied: "Pilots of America shall have the right and sole discretion to [...] remove any content whatsoever [...] which it finds in its sole discretion to be otherwise objectionable for any reason."

(2) I had written a review of the book China's Wings here in March 2012: http://www.pilotsofamerica.com/forum/showthread.php?t=47793
It seems the author became aware of my review and posted a reply to my thread. However, it wasn't until October 2012 that his post, which got hung up for moderator review, was actually approved. If it had been more prompt I'd have responded to the author's post.

Volunteer moderators are to be commended and sympathized (been there, done that) - but only if they actually put in the effort to moderate - and then do it properly, equitably, and humbly.

Unless you do something a moderator takes personally, it would seem the application of the rules are not consistently applied.
 
Hmmmmmm..

Maybe the Prop AD on the Navion prebuy post ???????

naw... couldn't be.... skyflea NEVER posted the name of the repair shop so there is no libel there....


Hmmm....

Thinking here...:dunno:
 
Well what was the unsubstantiated claim?
 
You bring some interesting thoughts to the table. When I hear you mention volunteerism; I think I better understand the situation inwhich I am currently confronted. Thanks for your comments.

Jim Logajan said:
Good luck with your attempts to get satisfaction. From a couple past experiences with PoA management I do not disbelieve your tale. My experiences:

(1) I have had two posts removed by the moderators of PoA. The only content of those two posts was the text of the post I was responding to, the text of one of the rules of conduct that I thought the original post was violating, and a winking smiley emoticon. Nothing more. I thought the smiley would show there was no strong feeling involved.

Private discussion with one of the moderators indicated I had allegedly run afoul of an unwritten rule and the following catch all was being applied: "Pilots of America shall have the right and sole discretion to [...] remove any content whatsoever [...] which it finds in its sole discretion to be otherwise objectionable for any reason."

(2) I had written a review of the book China's Wings here in March 2012: http://www.pilotsofamerica.com/forum/showthread.php?t=47793
It seems the author became aware of my review and posted a reply to my thread. However, it wasn't until October 2012 that his post, which got hung up for moderator review, was actually approved. If it had been more prompt I'd have responded to the author's post.

Volunteer moderators are to be commended and sympathized (been there, done that) - but only if they actually put in the effort to moderate - and then do it properly, equitably, and humbly.

Unless you do something a moderator takes personally, it would seem the application of the rules are not consistently applied.
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Let us know your company. If someone has done business with them they can post real testimonials....
 
Guys.. Gals..... What we have here is a New Years. Troll..:mad2::yes:.

Please allow me to exterminate him...
 

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Jay Honeck said:
Argh! If you're not going to be specific, no one can help you.
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If the OP is correct and the moderators have already stated they have no intention of removing the post or thread that the OP was concerned about, wouldn't it be counterproductive to his entire intent to point out the very post he wants removed from public visibility?
 
Jim Logajan said:
If the OP is correct and the moderators have already stated they have no intention of removing the post or thread that the OP was concerned about, wouldn't it be counterproductive to his entire intent to point out the very post he wants removed from public visibility?
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Yes, unless.....

N801BH said:
Guys.. Gals..... What we have here is a New Years. Troll..:mad2::yes:.

Please allow me to exterminate him...
Click to expand...

That....
 
Jim Logajan said:
If the OP is correct and the moderators have already stated they have no intention of removing the post or thread that the OP was concerned about, wouldn't it be counterproductive to his entire intent to point out the very post he wants removed from public visibility?
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Well, if it were me, and I was trying to rebut something -- I would mention the specific post....and rebut it.

But maybe that's just me. :dunno:
 
Isn't there some rule that disallows carryovers for wadded panties?
 
If you believe you've been libeled, hire a lawyer and take the person who posted the allegedly libelous material to court. Under US law, you really have no other recourse, and there are serious limitations to the liability of the operators of an internet discussion board like this over what is posted by individuals -- something of which I know the PoA management is well aware. Ranting about the situation here will not have any positive effect for you, and as pointed put above, only attracts more attention to whatever it is you found libelous.
 
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Dominque said:
My discussion here is centerd around POA responsibility to adiquatly protect memebers of the flying public who are not members of POA. I found this posters comments when I did a search on my company. His comments are without merit. They would never stand up in a court of law, that is why he has never filed a court case. However, because he is miffed he takes his comments to a pubic bulletin board. In his post, he claims his sole pupose is to make his comments number one on a websearch. Well, I am sorry to tell you that this is Libel. If you can not back this information up, and the information you have posted financially effects a business or person you can be help accountable. POA needs to understand that, yes they are not in control of what users may post. But when this information is brought to their attention. i.e. through a management council, they are then responsible to make an attempt to validate the information being posted. If not, they also can be held accountable to being a party to the original poster. Freedom of Speach yes, Ability to broadcast an unsubstaintiated claim when advised of such, NO.
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Dominique, if you continue to fail to tell the rest of us what the offending post was about, specifically, or link to the offending thread, your criticism of PoA and it's MC will continue to fall on deaf ears, and you will become the most ignored 11-post participant in history. Man up.
 
nddons said:
Dominique, if you continue to fail to tell the rest of us what the offending post was about, specifically, or link to the offending thread, your criticism of PoA and it's MC will continue to fall on deaf ears, and you will become the most ignored 11-post participant in history. Man up.
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Thanks, I thought I was the only one that had no idea what he was talking about! ;)
 
Dominque said:
My discussion here is centerd around POA responsibility to adiquatly protect memebers of the flying public who are not members of POA. I found this posters comments when I did a search on my company. His comments are without merit. They would never stand up in a court of law, that is why he has never filed a court case. However, because he is miffed he takes his comments to a pubic bulletin board. In his post, he claims his sole pupose is to make his comments number one on a websearch. Well, I am sorry to tell you that this is Libel. If you can not back this information up, and the information you have posted financially effects a business or person you can be help accountable. POA needs to understand that, yes they are not in control of what users may post. But when this information is brought to their attention. i.e. through a management council, they are then responsible to make an attempt to validate the information being posted. If not, they also can be held accountable to being a party to the original poster. Freedom of Speach yes, Ability to broadcast an unsubstaintiated claim when advised of such, NO.
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Have you responded to his supposedly baseless claims here on POA ? Unless there is some protected information involved, often these conflicts with vendors can be resolved with a response by the business. There are allways two sides to a dispute, put up yours and the users can make their own judgement as to whether they believe you or the disgruntled customer.

You are barking up the wrong tree. POA is simply a channel and doesn't control content. Google has armies of staff lawyers who do nothing but review 'takedown requests' for merit, few have any.
If you really believe that what this poster wrote is libelous, retain an attorney and go after the poster. You seem to already know who the individual is, probably a former customer of yours. If his claims are indeed libelous, move against him and have him compelled to remove his postings.
 
I don't see it as POA's responsibility to research and make judgment calls on the legitimacy of posts. If you've been libeled, you can sue. Otherwise, quityerbitchin.
 
LDJones said:
I don't see it as POA's responsibility to research and make judgment calls on the legitimacy of posts. If you've been libeled, you can sue. Otherwise, quityerbitchin.
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+1.

To be honest, seeing this guy's responses makes me think that, if I find out who he is, I don't want to do business with him, even if he is good at what he does.
 
Dominque said:
My discussion here is centerd around POA responsibility to adiquatly protect memebers of the flying public who are not members of POA. I found this posters comments when I did a search on my company. His comments are without merit. They would never stand up in a court of law, that is why he has never filed a court case. However, because he is miffed he takes his comments to a pubic bulletin board. In his post, he claims his sole pupose is to make his comments number one on a websearch. Well, I am sorry to tell you that this is Libel. If you can not back this information up, and the information you have posted financially effects a business or person you can be help accountable. POA needs to understand that, yes they are not in control of what users may post. But when this information is brought to their attention. i.e. through a management council, they are then responsible to make an attempt to validate the information being posted. If not, they also can be held accountable to being a party to the original poster. Freedom of Speach yes, Ability to broadcast an unsubstaintiated claim when advised of such, NO.
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It is only libel if:

1) it is defamatory in nature
2) it is untrue
3) it has caused provable damages

Given that no one has any idea about the posts to which you are referring, my guess is that the three criteria above have not been met.
 
How does one go about suing an Internet message board anyway? Half of them (not this one specifically) are run anonymously and/or out of China or the Ukraine.
 
Sac Arrow said:
How does one go about suing an Internet message board anyway? Half of them (not this one specifically) are run anonymously and/or out of China or the Ukraine.
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You wouldn't. You'd sue the person making the statement.
 
LDJones said:
You wouldn't. You'd sue the person making the statement.
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How does one go about suing an Internet message board poster anyway? Half of them (not this one specifically) are registered anonymously out of China or the Ukraine.
 
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