Raptor Aircraft

FastEddieB said:
I wonder what would be involved trucking the plane to a more forgiving airfield.
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Probably quite a bit, because he'll have to undo all of the kluges he did to "fix" things.

One thing I've also noticed is the incredibly poor planning and workmanship in routing and securing fuel lines and wiring. There's no segregation of systems at all.

In addition, it's been done incredibly haphazardly, and whoever did the work didn't have a pair of flush cuts to trim the liberally used tie wraps. There are half inch long hand slicers throughout the aircraft.
 
3393RP said:
I'm not the first one to suggest it, but I believe that after performing preliminary evaluations of the aircraft's flight characteristics, his test pilots will refuse to fly the airplane.
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I shouldn't quote myself ( :D ), but this is exactly what happened. After a few speed runs, the Wasabi guys said nuh-uh.

I don't agree with those criticizing their professionalism. Before actually getting in the aircraft and putting it on the runway, they didn't know what they didn't know. I think after pushing it up to a speed where they could evaluate some things, it was determined the airplane wasn't safe enough to fly from that airport.

That's not unprofessionalism, its self preservation.
 
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Forgive the dumb question, but why is the test pilot wearing an oxygen mask?

 
Lindberg said:
Forgive the dumb question, but why is the test pilot wearing an oxygen mask?

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Snide response A: Because the prototype is not pressurized.
Snide response B1: Because he flew commercial to get there and it was the only mask he had.
Snide response B2: It's not an oxygen mask, he has COVID-19 and it's a ventilator. (I didn't feel right counting the COVID-19 jokes separately.)
Snide response C: Because he doesn't want the airplane's fan(atic)s to be able to identify and attack him after he declines to fly the plane.
Snide response D: The real question is why anyone would not wear an oxygen mask.
 
3393RP said:
Probably quite a bit, because he'll have to undo all of the kluges he did to "fix" things.

One thing I've also noticed is the incredibly poor planning and workmanship in routing and securing fuel lines and wiring. There's no segregation of systems at all.

In addition, it's been done incredibly haphazardly, and whoever did the work didn't have a pair of flush cuts to trim the liberally used tie wraps. There are half inch long hand slicers throughout the aircraft.
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I didn't hear any mention of trucking the plane to another field in the latest video update. Did I miss something?
 
"I have a feeling there are some holes in the keel that are left over the wind is blowing through"

Holy hell
 
I think some airport cafe should buy it for scrap, and mount it on a stick as an attraction. Probably it’s best flight ever into the wild blue yonder.
 
3393RP said:
I shouldn't quote myself ( :D ), but this is exactly what happened. After a few speed runs, the Wasabi guys said nuh-uh.

I don't agree with those criticizing their professionalism. Before actually getting in the aircraft and putting it on the runway, they didn't know what they didn't know. I think after pushing it up to a speed where they could evaluate some things, it was determined the airplane wasn't safe enough to fly from that airport.

That's not unprofessionalism, its self preservation.
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That's downright Un-American not to sacrifice your life for your employer.
 
Is there an update posted revealing that the test flight team declined again?

I’d be reluctant to pay their invoice for coming all the way out (for the 3rd time) and suddenly saying the field is insufficient.
 
dans2992 said:
Is there an update posted revealing that the test flight team declined again?

I’d be reluctant to pay their invoice for coming all the way out (for the 3rd time) and suddenly saying the field is insufficient.
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I don’t think the Wasabi team has come out three times. Len Fox was the first one this time last year. He had serious issues with the design. Based on what was revealed, no doubt the first test flight would have been catastrophic. Elliot came out a couple months later, he had recommendations for the aircraft as well and returned to Cali. Now he’s back again. I think we’ll have to hear from Peter to understand what the issues were this time.
 
Velocity173 said:
I don’t think the Wasabi team has come out three times. Len Fox was the first one this time last year. He had serious issues with the design. Based on what was revealed, no doubt the first test flight would have been catastrophic. Elliot came out a couple months later, he had recommendations for the aircraft as well and returned to Cali. Now he’s back again. I think we’ll have to hear from Peter to understand what the issues were this time.
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I talked to Elliot about it a couple of months ago. He didn't seem to have any major issues with it. I asked him about the weight, and he just said they could limit the load factor envelope assuming the gear could handle it, and still use the prototype to prove stability and control as well as the feasibility of the new engine conversion.
 
dans2992 said:
I’d be reluctant to pay their invoice for coming all the way out (for the 3rd time) and suddenly saying the field is insufficient.
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A guess: The Wasabi team and Peter have been aware of the field length and off-airport issues for a while. They also are aware of the questionable engineering of the powertrain, and (after doing acceleration tests) are aware of the aircraft's real field length requirements. At some point, you look at the stackup of adverse data and say "no".

Think about this. The Raptor has the same wing area as the Velocity XL. But its weight (even with a light fuel load and a pilot) is 800 pounds heavier. The Velocity's minimum flight speed is listed as 75 knots. A little math says the Raptor's is about 10 knots faster. So you need 85 knots to fly. Think about that on a 5,000' field with an airplane that doesn't appear to accelerate very well. Also, think about the implications for an off-airport landing.

My guess is the Wasabi team was pretty clear with Peter that there is/was a chance they would leave the Raptor at the altar. I doubt they are going to speak about it so it is up to Peter to 'splain what really took place. I just hope he doesn't try to fly it himself, particularly from Cherokee County. (Where I did a stop and go last Saturday.)
 
kyleb said:
A guess: The Wasabi team and Peter have been aware of the field length and off-airport issues for a while. They also are aware of the questionable engineering of the powertrain, and (after doing acceleration tests) are aware of the aircraft's real field length requirements. At some point, you look at the stackup of adverse data and say "no".

Think about this. The Raptor has the same wing area as the Velocity XL. But its weight (even with a light fuel load and a pilot) is 800 pounds heavier. The Velocity's minimum flight speed is listed as 75 knots. A little math says the Raptor's is about 10 knots faster. So you need 85 knots to fly. Think about that on a 5,000' field with an airplane that doesn't appear to accelerate very well. Also, think about the implications for an off-airport landing.

My guess is the Wasabi team was pretty clear with Peter that there is/was a chance they would leave the Raptor at the altar. I doubt they are going to speak about it so it is up to Peter to 'splain what really took place. I just hope he doesn't try to fly it himself, particularly from Cherokee County. (Where I did a stop and go last Saturday.)
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Minimum on an XL is 65 kts. Landing speed is 75 kts. I’d say most XL guys do at least 80 kts on final though. I went thru the training program in their 173 and was taught 80 on final in that...which I still do today.

But yeah, she’s a fat girl and will require a high approach speed.
 
FastEddieB said:
I wonder what would be involved trucking the plane to a more forgiving airfield.
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It's not that difficult. Velocity's get trucked around all the time. Getting up at the proper angle will even allow it without a wide load placard. I think Cartersville would be a pretty good choice. Almost as long a runway as Rome but a lot more fields around the airport.

If it were me, I'd truck it to Huntsville. A 12,000' runway would be nice to have. You could get it truly airborne and still land it on the runway.
 
That won’t bode well for survivability with that power plant either. :/
 
donjohnston said:
It's not that difficult. Velocity's get trucked around all the time. Getting up at the proper angle will even allow it without a wide load placard. I think Cartersville would be a pretty good choice. Almost as long a runway as Rome but a lot more fields around the airport.

If it were me, I'd truck it to Huntsville. A 12,000' runway would be nice to have. You could get it truly airborne and still land it on the runway.
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There's an uncontrolled airport in SE Arkansas that used to be a B-52 base and has an 11,602ft runway. It'd be perfect for this.
 
ktup-flyer said:
There's an uncontrolled airport in SE Arkansas that used to be a B-52 base and has an 11,602ft runway. It'd be perfect for this.
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Except that Huntsville is only 3 hours away. If you need to get some parts or you need to get it back to home base for some reason, a 3 hour drive is a lot easier than 8.
 
Velocity173 said:
Someone on POA just needs to grow a pair and volunteer to test flight that man’s aircraft!
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Velocity173 said:
Minimum on an XL is 65 kts. Landing speed is 75 kts. I’d say most XL guys do at least 80 kts on final though. I went thru the training program in their 173 and was taught 80 on final in that...which I still do today.
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I was just using the data from Velocity's website. ;-)
 
ktup-flyer said:
There's an uncontrolled airport in SE Arkansas that used to be a B-52 base and has an 11,602ft runway. It'd be perfect for this.
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Blytheville? That's more kinda NE Arkansas, but, no biggy. You're right though, would be a great (remote!) location; huge runway, open fields everywhere, no traffic but cropdusters and the occasional Delta jet in for storage. Long way from the home base hangar though...
 
Browsing through the construction videos, it looks like it might fit on a trailer if he removed the engine/prop and the outer wings. It might have to be rotated nose up, nose down, or in roll to make it narrow enough to go down the road. So, there is a path forward to getting it to an acceptable airport. It still may require a wide load permit.
 
That is the sort of engine noise I expect to end in an abrupt 'pop!' and an accidentally-broadcast expletive on unicom.
 
The Raptor is at my home airport, and I've seen a lot of it over the last year or so. This was the 3rd trip out here for Elliot and Justin. The first trip was before Christmas last year and produced a list of things that Peter needed to address before a flight attempt could be made. The second visit was about a month or so ago, and lasted only one day after a major problem was discovered with the side sticks binding. Some taxi runs were made, but all at low speed. On both of those visits, Justin and Elliot flew into Atlanta on a commercial airline and they drove up to Cherokee. This last visit, they flew into Cherokee in a PA-30. On Monday, they did some taxi runs at medium speed, up to about 40 knots or so. I'm not sure if they did any more taxi runs on Tuesday, but they did spend some time flying their own airplane around the airport area, looking at the surrounding terrain for the first time. I believe that after looking at alternative off airport landing sites (there are no good ones!), and further evaluation of the performance of the airplane, they decided that it was beyond their comfort level of risk. They flew out of Cherokee yesterday. Peter will probably act shocked and surprised at their decision, but he's been told by several folks over the last several years of building this airplane that Cherokee was not a good place for this kind of testing. It will be interesting to see what he says in his next video.....
 
Rod Schneider said:
The Raptor is at my home airport, and I've seen a lot of it over the last year or so. This was the 3rd trip out here for Elliot and Justin. The first trip was before Christmas last year and produced a list of things that Peter needed to address before a flight attempt could be made. The second visit was about a month or so ago, and lasted only one day after a major problem was discovered with the side sticks binding. Some taxi runs were made, but all at low speed. On both of those visits, Justin and Elliot flew into Atlanta on a commercial airline and they drove up to Cherokee. This last visit, they flew into Cherokee in a PA-30. On Monday, they did some taxi runs at medium speed, up to about 40 knots or so. I'm not sure if they did any more taxi runs on Tuesday, but they did spend some time flying their own airplane around the airport area, looking at the surrounding terrain for the first time. I believe that after looking at alternative off airport landing sites (there are no good ones!), and further evaluation of the performance of the airplane, they decided that it was beyond their comfort level of risk. They flew out of Cherokee yesterday. Peter will probably act shocked and surprised at their decision, but he's been told by several folks over the last several years of building this airplane that Cherokee was not a good place for this kind of testing. It will be interesting to see what he says in his next video.....
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THANK YOU for the informed, detailed and thorough update.
 
John Wayne Airport (KSNA) longest runway is only 5700' long and they operate Boeing 757's out of it. Do you really think he needs more runway to test fly what amounts to a modified Velocity? Sheesh!
 
Brad Smith said:
John Wayne Airport (KSNA) longest runway is only 5700' long and they operate Boeing 757's out of it. Do you really think he needs more runway to test fly what amounts to a modified Velocity? Sheesh!
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I think the concern is if something happens if something happens during the climb out, on where he can do an off field landing.
 
You would have thought on one of the very first trips someone would have buzzed them around the patch to survey they area to determine suitability. Seems like so much wasted time, money and efforts on test pilots and creators side.
 
Brad Smith said:
John Wayne Airport (KSNA) longest runway is only 5700' long and they operate Boeing 757's out of it. Do you really think he needs more runway to test fly what amounts to a modified Velocity? Sheesh!
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Apples and... bricks.

The 757 is professionally designed and tested aircraft which has been flying for over 30 years. Comparing that to the first flight of an aircraft designed and built by an amateur with an unproved powerplant is beyond ridiculous.
 
Not just the airport suitability but the aircraft airworthiness. Peter has documented the building process quite thoroughly on YT. Four visits from test pilots and they didn’t bother to watch his engineering / assembly of the craft? Come on.
 
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