[rant]Cage free eggs[rant]

James_Dean said:
Depreciation. More capital expense spread over fewer dozens with the same equipment useful life.

Labor. Same labor to care for fewer birds

Return on invested capital. I spend x to get return y. Now I get fewer dozens on the same x and my profit per dozen must increase to get the same y.
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Do you run any EC facility? Does the market appear to be accepting the cost?
What does it break down to per dozen? Sorry, you probably already put that in somewhere here... getting old.
 
My personal threshhold is 1.50 a dozen for large eggs.. If it is higher, I don't buy any....:no::no:
 
A dozen eggs has more protein value than that. Compare what you pay for the same protein in steak.
 
I don't look at the price so much but I would pay $3-4 for a dozen eggs. That's six meals.
 
Henning said:
Do you run any EC facility? Does the market appear to be accepting the cost?
What does it break down to per dozen? Sorry, you probably already put that in somewhere here... getting old.
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We have about everything but free-range which U.S. cage free but with access to the outside. The EC stuff at the 116 sq. in. is roughly $0.25/doz more than conventional.

I'm not aware of anyone who is successfully marketing an EC product.
 
James_Dean said:
We have about everything but free-range which U.S. cage free but with access to the outside. The EC stuff at the 116 sq. in. is roughly $0.25/doz more than conventional.

I'm not aware of anyone who is successfully marketing an EC product.
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:confused: I wonder why not at 25¢ a dozen? It seems like the best result result, you maintain a basic ethical standard of life and production for little more money.:dunno:
 
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Henning said:
:confused: I wonder why not at 25¢ a dozen? It seems like the best result result, you maintain a basic ethical standard of life and production for little more money.:dunno:
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The industry operates on margins dramatically below $0.25/ dozen on average. We produce products as the market demands, but taking on a cost that is a multiple of profit that aren't recoverable in the marketplace isn't sustainable.

As I've previously written, our industry partnered with HSUS to try to pass legislation that would phase in ECI over roughly 15 years. The rest of animal agriculture worked vigorously to defeat it and were successful at getting it squashed. It also turned out that congressional democrats and republicans were both opposed to a real compromise by the stakeholders. Go figure.

http://m.humanesociety.org/news/press_releases/2011/07/egg_agreement.html
 
Henning said:
Does EC meet the CA standard?
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Maybe. As the CDFA currently defines it they are really primarily concerned about space per bird. They don't care about all the enrichments or behaviors.

HSUS now claims their intent was for it to mean cage free. Someday, probably in the 2020's, there will be a definitive court decision.
 
Hi James,

I've read about the avian flu outbreak, I sure hope your flocks are not ones being euthanized. :(
 
Bill Jennings said:
Hi James,

I've read about the avian flu outbreak, I sure hope your flocks are not ones being euthanized. :(
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Not us, but not far away. The ILS to 12 at my home drome goes right over the affected facility. You basically have to take a Lysol bath to get on our farm.

About the worst nightmare you can imagine for the affected premises.

The FedGov has lost control of the situation.
 
So is every chicken that gets sick or dies tested for that?

Can they just let it go, keep it confined and use the survivors to develope a vaccine?
 
I'm guessing that's easier said than done in such a confined environment.
 
Amazing thread, thank you for posting so much about your business and educating us on such a common food item.
 
eb87f said:
So is every chicken that gets sick or dies tested for that?

Can they just let it go, keep it confined and use the survivors to develope a vaccine?
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It is routine for every one of our flocks to get tested prior to depopulation to detect low pathogenic avian influenza. Highly pathogenic AI results in very high mortality rates and we test any flock that experiences higher than normal mortality. We can get AI results in 24 hours from the state labs. The flocks that have been affected in this recent outbreak are going from zero clinical signs to 80% mortality in a week so it is pretty obvious when it starts.

Influenza can change and adapt faster than immune systems which is why it shows up in humans every year despite vaccinations. Eradication is still the preferred policy in the US.
 
Are your flocks are segregated into separate facilities? If so, I think you would likely depopulate one facility at a time.
 
A little off subject, but humorous.

Today I was in Albuquerque with my wife. As usual she wanted to shop at an Asian store. Since she is Asian, we went shopping.

We weren't shopping for eggs as we buy duck eggs from a neighbor. I was looking at the egg shelf. Saw a dozen eggs advertised as "completely vegetarian eggs laid from vegetarian hens." Ok, I have never seen carnivorous chickens and frankly I don't think I would like to see one.

Another dozen were marked as "Glutton Free". Ok.....seriously.

Am I so far removed from the farm that carnivorous chickens have been bred? :lol:

Has the glutton free fear went so far that everything has to be marked glutton free for those that just can't figure it out? :lol:

Sorry, just the thoughts after a fantastic day off and out of town running errands with my wife. :)
 
Zeldman said:
A little off subject, but humorous.

Today I was in Albuquerque with my wife. As usual she wanted to shop at an Asian store. Since she is Asian, we went shopping.

We weren't shopping for eggs as we buy duck eggs from a neighbor. I was looking at the egg shelf. Saw a dozen eggs advertised as "completely vegetarian eggs laid from vegetarian hens." Ok, I have never seen carnivorous chickens and frankly I don't think I would like to see one.

Another dozen were marked as "Glutton Free". Ok.....seriously.

Am I so far removed from the farm that carnivorous chickens have been bred? :lol:
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New Hollywood "B" movie: attack of the killer chickens coming soon to a theatre near you
 
Zeldman said:
We weren't shopping for eggs as we buy duck eggs from a neighbor. I was looking at the egg shelf. Saw a dozen eggs advertised as "completely vegetarian eggs laid from vegetarian hens." Ok, I have never seen carnivorous chickens and frankly I don't think I would like to see one.
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Chickens are absolutely omnivores and eat bugs and other meat if given an opportunity.
 
Zeldman said:
A little off subject, but humorous.

Today I was in Albuquerque with my wife. As usual she wanted to shop at an Asian store. Since she is Asian, we went shopping.

We weren't shopping for eggs as we buy duck eggs from a neighbor. I was looking at the egg shelf. Saw a dozen eggs advertised as "completely vegetarian eggs laid from vegetarian hens." Ok, I have never seen carnivorous chickens and frankly I don't think I would like to see one.

Another dozen were marked as "Glutton Free". Ok.....seriously.

Am I so far removed from the farm that carnivorous chickens have been bred? :lol:

Has the glutton free fear went so far that everything has to be marked glutton free for those that just can't figure it out? :lol:

Sorry, just the thoughts after a fantastic day off and out of town running errands with my wife. :)
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As someone that spends a fair amount of time in Southeast Asia, I can vouch for the "Glutton Free" chickens. The chickens that "they" like are scrawny and underfed. The chickens that "we" (and the Koreans) like are plump and tender.
 
Korean chicken & beer joints have the best fried chicken....awesome
 
This has been a great thread! All I have to say is, my family eats 15-18 eggs a day and our little flock of personal free range birds isn't big enough! Adding 6-8 more layers this spring to see if we can keep up with the hungry kids. I can definitely tell the difference between our eggs and the grocery store ones in flavor and color. Very cool to hear how industrial egg production works. Now I know how non-farmers feel when they hear that a family farm is now 5000 acres and the tractors drive themselves with GPS steering.


Patrick
 
It will be public later this afternoon, but two of our farms have been hit with avian influenza and will have to be depopulated. One of the most brutal things I've ever seen. More to follow if anyone is interested.
 
James_Dean said:
It will be public later this afternoon, but two of our farms have been hit with avian influenza and will have to be depopulated. One of the most brutal things I've ever seen. More to follow if anyone is interested.
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Oh Siht.......

Define " depopulating...:redface:.....:sad::sad::sad::sad::sad:
 
That's horrible...yes interested but sorry you have to go through this...is this an insurable loss?
 
Eggman,

Sorry to hear about your outbreak. If I remember right, your chickens lay for about 60 days, so this essentially sets you back at least two months of production?

Not particularly related, but I was watching a food show doing a segment about mayonnaise, and they mentioned how most commercial brands use whole eggs, not just yolks, because it would be too time consuming to separate them on a commercial scale. Then I remembered the video of that separator machine you shared, and thought to myself if they didn't use just yolks, it was for cost, not availability.
 
James_Dean said:
It will be public later this afternoon, but two of our farms have been hit with avian influenza and will have to be depopulated. One of the most brutal things I've ever seen. More to follow if anyone is interested.
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Damnit man, sorry to hear that! :mad2:
 
Sorry to hear that. In the little bit I read it seems that it would be hard to control since wild birds are carriers but don't get sick themselves.
 
N801BH said:
Oh Siht.......

Define " depopulating...:redface:.....:sad::sad::sad::sad::sad:
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We have to euthanize 5,500,000 birds asap and figure out what to do with it. Then clean and disinfect. Hopefully we will be able to start repopulating later this year and it will take 15 months after that to get back to what we were last week. There is federal indemnification but it covers a fraction of the costs.

I am facing hundreds of choices in the next few days and every one is choosing the least bad option. I've got a great team of people and we will survive and then thrive.
 
DJTorrente said:
Eggman,

Sorry to hear about your outbreak. If I remember right, your chickens lay for about 60 days, so this essentially sets you back at least two months of production?

Not particularly related, but I was watching a food show doing a segment about mayonnaise, and they mentioned how most commercial brands use whole eggs, not just yolks, because it would be too time consuming to separate them on a commercial scale. Then I remembered the video of that separator machine you shared, and thought to myself if they didn't use just yolks, it was for cost, not availability.
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They lay for 16 months. It will take more than a year to repopulate.
 
James_Dean said:
We have to euthanize 5,500,000 birds asap and figure out what to do with it. Then clean and disinfect. Hopefully we will be able to start repopulating later this year and it will take 15 months after that to get back to what we were last week. There is federal indemnification but it covers a fraction of the costs.

I am facing hundreds of choices in the next few days and every one is choosing the least bad option. I've got a great team of people and we will survive and then thrive.
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I know you will. Sorry this has happened to you. We will keep you and your family in our prayers.
 
James_Dean said:
We have to euthanize 5,500,000 birds asap and figure out what to do with it. Then clean and disinfect. Hopefully we will be able to start repopulating later this year and it will take 15 months after that to get back to what we were last week. There is federal indemnification but it covers a fraction of the costs.

I am facing hundreds of choices in the next few days and every one is choosing the least bad option. I've got a great team of people and we will survive and then thrive.
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HOLY COW......

That is 10 times the human population of the entire state of Wyoming....:hairraise:..

Not to be too graphic but I assume you tent the chicken houses, introduce CO, or some other humane gas, dig some big holes, fill with dead birds, add several hundred gallons of diesel fuel, cook till well done and backfill the holes with ALOT of dirt..:dunno::dunno:..

If not,,,, How.:confused:..

At this point I am hoping like hell you are going to say... April Fools day,,, 27 days late ...:redface::sad:
 
N801BH said:
HOLY COW......

That is 10 times the human population of the entire state of Wyoming....:hairraise:..

Not to be too graphic but I assume you tent the chicken houses, introduce CO, or some other humane gas, dig some big holes, fill with dead birds, add several hundred gallons of diesel fuel, cook till well done and backfill the holes with ALOT of dirt..:dunno::dunno:..

If not,,,, How.:confused:..

At this point I am hoping like hell you are going to say... April Fools day,,, 27 days late ...:redface::sad:
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http://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...-in-9-5-million-egg-laying-chickens-iowa-says

That isn't an option for environmental reasons. Most likely we will use carbon dioxide to euthanize and will do onsite composting. Now I just have to find 20,000 Tons of carbon source like wood chips.

Like I said, my world for the next six months is choosing the least terrible options.
 
Norman said:
That is sad news Egg Man.

Any of the disaster covered by insurance?
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There is a federal indemnity to cover some of the costs, but only a fraction of the total bill. The losses will be very large, but that is the risk you take when you own a business. We will figure it out - don't have any other choice.
 
Far better it is to dare mighty things, to win glorious triumphs, even though checkered by failure, than to rank with those poor spirits who neither enjoy much nor suffer much, because they live in that grey twilight that knows neither victory nor defeat.
- Teddy Roosevelt
 
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