Rant #1022 Pilot Reports - Throw a guy a bone...

Captain Larry

Captain Larry

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Jun 7, 2013
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Display name:
Larry Nelson
I have turned into a cautious pilot from my younger years. I have been flying since 1967. This week I had the need to fly half way across a Midwest state on business. My departure field was near a large city with a large airport, and next to it a major Air Force base. My destination was, actually, in the middle of that state but with two towered airports near my route and a third just beyond my proposed destination, non towered, but all three with commercial activity. There, I have set the table for my rant.

The WX turned a bit sour with icing forecast from the surface to 10,000', pretty much where I live. I went online for pilot reports and there were, maybe, TWO between Des Moines and Denver, all in the flight levels, and, on edit, nowhere near my route. Oh, and this was at 10:45am (not 4am).

So, lacking any sort of details on flight conditions ONLINE, I called Flight Service. They had only those same pilot reports. I will digress from my rant to THANK those two pilots who took the time to get INFORMATION INTO THE SYSTEM to benefit their fellow aviators.

My Twin Comanche does not have boots, or prop/windshield deicing equipment, so information such as TOPS, LAYERS, and icing conditions are GOLD to me and everyone like me who flies, mostly from 12,000' on down.

I knew that I could make my meeting if I got in a (rental) car and drove like a mad man. I also knew that, no doubt, I would be reaching for my sun glasses when I reached my destination in the car. I also knew that, asleep on a recliner at the destination airport, was a freight dog whose Be99 was parked and awaiting it's daily load, with vital information in his head that could have been shared. I also knew that several regionals had made approaches into the three airports mentioned earlier prior to me climbing in a car. I also knew that, most likely, the tower guys asked at one time or another, "hey, can you give me a bases/tops report". I also knew that several "equipped" aircraft were/ or had already, made approaches.

I am as guilty as anyone else, but in this age of information, can we not do a better job of helping out others who my be making decisions based on only 50% of the available information, much of which is speculative, while we hold the information that is REAL?

On edit, 7 hours of car driving there and back.......

Several years ago, lacking any pireps for a winter flight in active WX, I was about to give up, but decided to call the tower on the phone. "hey, any tops or layers reports", I ask. "Stand by", the nice ATC guy sez.....(in the background...."Delta XYZ can you give me a tops report on your climb?)...tower guys comes back "bases at 700' tops at 4,200', negative ice....wow, thanks, just what I need to launch for my trip. However, when I landed THAT very information was not "in the system, because I checked. Sad.....I know the tower guys get busy too, but even 30 minute old information helps....just sayin'

PILOT REPORTS ARE ENCOURAGED....let's do better.

Larry
 
I have had many problems filing PIREPs in the past

A couple examples:

1) Field was reporting clear and 10sm vis but I didn't break out until minimums... Flight Service: "But the AWOS machine says clear" ... well i'm telling you its wrong.. The dude never filed it

2) Mountain Wave... Flight Service: "I don't think you can get mountain wave in that area" ... well i'm telling you I'm experiencing it... The dude never filed it

I don't waste my time with PIREPs anymore. It's about time we join the technology age and make electronic submission through Garmin Pilot or FF possible. Whatever happened to this thing? https://www.pilotsofamerica.com/com...bmission-form-will-soon-be-operational.97814/
 
First question @Captain Larry - is that your 195 in your profile picture? If so absolutely beautiful.

I once filed a pirep for Rollins pass in CO. I told the controller light-mod on east side of the pass and smooth on the West. I looked up the pilot report after I landed and it said that I reported severe!

Not sure where that came from!
 
Like others, I've given bases, tops, turbulence reports but haven't seen them show up in the system.

I use Aerovie for PIREP submission... I haven't seen a way to submit PIREPs via foreflight. I do it as often as practicable when flying because PIREPs are immensely helpful.
 
Captain Larry said:
PILOT REPORTS ARE ENCOURAGED....let's do better.
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I too would love to see and give more PIREPs, if only the system worked a little better.
As you can see from some replies in this thread, many pilots make PIREPs to controllers. That information never becomes an official PIREP, it is only verbal information shared by the local controller.
An official PIREP must be submitted either via FSS or some Ynterweb means (apps, webpages).
So when the tower asks you where you broke out on top, you will never see that in the national DB. :(
 
The PIREP submission on aviationweather.gov works now. You just have to make an account. I throw PIREPs in after flights pretty regularly.
 
BigBadLou said:
An official PIREP must be submitted either via FSS or some Ynterweb means (apps, webpages).
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The towers are supposed to be submitting those to FSS on a workload-permitting basis. Unfortunately the FAA doesn't communicate to controllers how important it can be to put that information in the system whenever possible.
 
Harold Rutila said:
The PIREP submission on aviationweather.gov works now. You just have to make an account. I throw PIREPs in after flights pretty regularly.
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I just made an account. I looked but couldn't find where to make a PIREP. Under which dropdown do you use?
 
JC150 said:
I just made an account. I looked but couldn't find where to make a PIREP. Under which dropdown do you use?
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I believe you click Advisories -> Air Reports and it's an option at the top of that page when logged in.
 
PIREPS can save lives. Three years ago, I was stuck on top in a VFR only bird with no where to go with my remaining fuel.
I had no idea how thick the cloud layer was below me, and how much room there was between the bottom of the clouds and the top of the Berkshires.
Along came a guy below me with a C-172 who surveyed the scene, filed a PIREP, and double checked with me that there was no IFR traffic anywhere in the area.
After a let down that was a total non-event, we flew off together to get a beer.
Thank you Carl! Where ever and whenever we meet, the drinks are forever on me.
 
Captain Larry said:
I am as guilty as anyone else, but in this age of information, can we not do a better job of helping out others who my be making decisions based on only 50% of the available information, much of which is speculative, while we hold the information that is REAL?
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REAL for how long? PIREPS don't do much for fast moving systems unless you're already in the immediate area and can see/avoid what information is being relayed. If a WX system is stalled, then you may have some useful information that may be good for an hour or two. I think that's why many don't do any regular reporting as things can change so rapidly it's just not worth the effort. :dunno:
 
Then.......keep up your stellar record of silence. You have a good excuse. "Not worth the effort". Nice.

I was planning a short trip from east to west. My departure airport was VMC. I was wanting to fly towards the system and wanted info on the system moving from west to east. I didn't give a crap if it was an hour or two old. It was better than NOTHING.

(keep up the good work).....
 
I give pireps to FSS on all XC flights, and all have been recorded correctly (checked after landing).
 
If there were some way to give PIREPs in flight via some kind of datalink, I'd do it all the time. I'd actually like to have something to do while George is flying. The problem is if you're IFR (which for me is pretty much all the time, but is true for almost everyone when the weather is such that you really need them anyway), it's just a royal PITA to try to talk to Flight Service on comm2 while listening to ATC, etc. Most non-urgent PIREPs don't seem to make it from ATC into the system (which, in fairness, I totally understand).

In-flight reporting would be a huge upgrade to ADS-B if they could figure out how to implement it. I'm certain that the guys at ForeFlight could whip up something Waze-like in a weekend that would be a pleasure to use.
 
It would be awesome if I could file a pirep from the GTN750. It would already have the winds aloft information and OAT. I would just put in anything else that is pertinent.
 
Captain Larry said:
Then.......keep up your stellar record of silence. You have a good excuse. "Not worth the effort". Nice.

I was planning a short trip from east to west. My departure airport was VMC. I was wanting to fly towards the system and wanted info on the system moving from west to east. I didn't give a crap if it was an hour or two old. It was better than NOTHING.

(keep up the good work).....
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LOL. Captain Larry, meet azblackbird, welcome to the 'Peanut Gallery.'
 
There are apps like Aerovie that will send automatic PIREPs. You log the PIREP and when whatever mobile device you're using gets signal it automatically puts in the system. It's pretty slick.
 
I don't fly a lot of IMC, but I do what I can to add to the system. I'll call tops out to ATC, and I've done quite a few PIREPS on longer flights too.

What would be nice is if they could work out something into the ADS-B system to allow a PIREP-out feed, then we wouldn't be relying on ATC to put them in, or struggling to reach Flight Service on the radio.
 
azblackbird said:
REAL for how long? PIREPS don't do much for fast moving systems unless you're already in the immediate area and can see/avoid what information is being relayed. If a WX system is stalled, then you may have some useful information that may be good for an hour or two. I think that's why many don't do any regular reporting as things can change so rapidly it's just not worth the effort. :dunno:
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Is there any chance the web site people can give us the option to just block all post by a particular user? The avatar could be something like a picture of a muzzle and the post can look like CIA redacted bold black lines.
 
Radar Contact said:
Is there any chance the web site people can give us the option to just block all post by a particular user? The avatar could be something like a picture of a muzzle and the post can look like CIA redacted bold black lines.
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There is an "ignore" function if you click on the user you want to ignore, the persons posts all disappear for you.
 
Are there any good guidelines on PIREP reporting online somewhere?

As a student, so far at least, I'm only checking them before flights. Rather, checking to see if there are any. Since as a student I so far tend to fly on nice days, maybe that is why.

But is this something that usually gets covered in ground school at some point?

I could think that reporting icing, extreme turbulence or wind shear, etc. would be a good thing for other pilots to know. But while in flight which service do you report it to? Tower? In uncontrolled airspace who then?

Also, I'm just guessing, on a nice day no need to report conditions, but on a day when icing might be a concern, does one report the absence of icing in areas that would be a concern of the possibility?

It's a little confusing. When I get my certificate, I'd definitely like to help out with useful information when appropriate. But I also wondered about the responsibility aspect, if flying through say an area of concern and I don't experience icing at that altitude, time, etc. but it could change quickly, I guess one can still report that "no icing, but very unstable" ? Are PIREPS given also as weather "reports" or is the wording mor conversational ?
 
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Yes, yes, yes and yes.

You report PIREPs to FSS, though sometimes Approach or Center will relay.

There is a standard format. They include clouds, icing, wind shear, turbulence, or lack of them. It's useful to know it's a nice day if it was forecast otherwise.

They are discussed in the AIM.
 
azblackbird said:
REAL for how long? PIREPS don't do much for fast moving systems unless you're already in the immediate area and can see/avoid what information is being relayed. If a WX system is stalled, then you may have some useful information that may be good for an hour or two. I think that's why many don't do any regular reporting as things can change so rapidly it's just not worth the effort. :dunno:
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Pireps are still very useful with fast moving systems. Actually I find them to be most helpful in rapidly changing weather.
 
starglider said:
If there were some way to give PIREPs in flight via some kind of datalink, I'd do it all the time.
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I believe that is the ultimate dream of ADS-B.

Automatic, data linked, real time weather from thousands of airborne planes.

Sent from my SM-T700 using Tapatalk
 
Tarheelpilot said:
Pireps are still very useful with fast moving systems. Actually I find them to be most helpful in rapidly changing weather.
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Very useful if pilots are in the same general area of the PIREP. Seems these days nobody likes to communicate. For s**ts and giggles, I'll pull up the WX and NOTAMS when a system is moving through and very rarely do I see PIREPS from private pilots. It's usually from the big boys in the flight levels notifying about icing or turbulence. Even then they are far and few between.

BTW... I'm speaking for the general SW area of the CONUS. I don't pull reports from those back east, so things could be entirely different from what we experience in this part of the country.
 
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azblackbird said:
Very useful if pilots are in the same general area of the PIREP. Seems these days nobody likes to communicate. For s**ts and giggles, I'll pull up the WX and NOTAMS when a system is moving through and very rarely do I see PIREPS from private pilots. It's usually from the big boys in the flight levels notifying about icing or turbulence. Even then they are far and few between.
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So now they are useful???? Dude make up your mind. They are either useful or not worth the effort to make the report. I guess you have both points of view covered.


So how's your pilot training going?
 
Tarheelpilot said:
So now they are useful???? Dude make up your mind. They are either useful or not worth the effort to make the report. I guess you have both points of view covered.
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Learn to read... this is what I originally said... "PIREPS don't do much for fast moving systems unless you're already in the immediate area and can see/avoid what information is being relayed."
 
azblackbird said:
Learn to read... this is what I originally said... "PIREPS don't do much for fast moving systems unless you're already in the immediate area and can see/avoid what information is being relayed."
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Remind us again of the amount of your real world experience, ratings, and hours.
 
I will echo the Aerovie suggestion. Although it is obviously not an immediate entry it will get there no matter what and it is EXTREMELY user friendly on what is included and the definition. The best part is that part of it is FREE. Put it on your iPad and just click over when you want to submit one. I have also heard mets and ATCs ask for them to help verify and forecasts and determine what is actually happening even if it is a perfect day. More data is not a bad thing.
 
azblackbird said:
I think that's why many don't do any regular reporting as things can change so rapidly it's just not worth the effort. :dunno:
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I can read just fine.

Edit

I was just giving you crap. I think it's humorous how much insight and knowledge you're sharing considering where you are on your long journey of becoming an airman. It's seems I may have hit a nerve. Thought you could use this:

IMG_2963.JPG
 
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azblackbird said:
I've never been in a airplane in my entire life. ;)
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Sarcasm--wonderful. Just trying to establish what credibility your posts have. For me, right now its zero. Others may find them useful but for me, not so much.
 
Tarheelpilot said:
I was just giving you crap. I think it's humorous how much insight and knowledge you're sharing considering where you are on your long journey of becoming an airman. It's seems I may have hit a nerve. Thought you could use this:
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My skin is thick. No biggie...:p

Here's the point I was trying to make. These days with all the sophisticated gadgetry available to virtually all GA pilots to get (more or less) instantaneous WX reports, many don't feel the need to do PIREPS anymore, as they probably figure you would already have the current WX conditions at your fingertips. As previously stated, I'll pull the information for the SW when a system is moving through and I will very rarely see a PIREP from a private pilot.
 
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