Radio Procedure Question

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flyguy_17

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flyguy_17
Quick Question that I should already know the answer to but have never encountered this situation until now: When flying into an Uncontrolled Airport that is not named after the city that it is located in, (for example:price, UT airport name is Carbon County Regional Airport/Buck Davis Field) on call up to the CTAF, which Airport name is proper to use for traffic? "Price Traffic", "Carbon County Traffic", or "Buck Davis Traffic"?
 
I would prefer either of the last two OR both. "Carbon county - Buck Davis traffic, Cessna 1234.....
 
I use whatever the airport is named by its owner. Example, T82, Gillespie County, Texas is at Fredericksburg, Texas, but on call-ups, it's "Gillespie County Traffic..."

Or, as Dr. Dave has observed, something that sounds a like like, "Glespy Cow Traffic.". ;-)
 
Also, when going somewhere like that you will others on the radio then it's monkey monkey say, or you call the FBO and say you are unfamiliar with the area what do the locals use for call ups. Never hurts to ask the horse...
 
Yeah, whatever you here the locals calling it should work.

I have flown a lot out of Jones Field in Bonham and Cox Field in Paris. I commonly here and say "Bonham Jones" & "Paris Cox."
 
Windham Airport is located in Willimantic CT. I use "Windham traffic...." on the radio.
 
KLRY (Lawrence Smith Memorial) in Harrisonville, MO is just called "Harrisonville Traffic" to almost everyone familiar with it. I've heard "Harrisonville/Smith Memorial Traffic" a couple of times, though. ASOS calls it "Harrisonville Lawrence Smith Memorial Airport".
 
Sometimes I just use what's on the AWOS which if I remember for Price is Carbon County.
 
Sussex County Airport (GED) in Georgetown, DE goes by "Sussex County traffic" and "Georgetown traffic" interchangeably. You hear people in the same pattern at the same time calling it different things...seems to me like it could be a recipe for disaster if someone gets complacent.
 
Winston Field (KSNK) is called "Winston Field - Scurry County Airport" on the AWOS and generally gets "Snyder Traffic" on the radio. Same goes for most local airports.
 
The same issue exists for towered airports as well. For example, flying in to Reid Hillview airport in San Jose. Do you contact Reid tower? Hillview tower? (I contact Reid Hillview tower.) Or, flying in to Sacramento International airport. If you didn't know better, you would contact International tower, not Capitol tower. (It is a Class C airport, so you would never contact the tower directly, and ATC will always hand you off to Capitol tower, but still...)
 
jpower said:
Sussex County Airport (GED) in Georgetown, DE goes by "Sussex County traffic" and "Georgetown traffic" interchangeably. You hear people in the same pattern at the same time calling it different things...seems to me like it could be a recipe for disaster if someone gets complacent.
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If you hear someone in the pattern at GED say "Georgetown-Sussex traffic...", it's probably me -- belt and suspenders.

And that's the point. If you hear other aircraft in the pattern using one name, go with the flow. If you don't hear anyone, use all the possible names together until someone else comes along and uses just one.
 
Sac Arrow said:
The same issue exists for towered airports as well. For example, flying in to Reid Hillview airport in San Jose. Do you contact Reid tower? Hillview tower? (I contact Reid Hillview tower.)
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For towered airports, as long as you're on the right frequency, it won't matter if you even say only "Tower." They'll answer anyone who calls "[anything] Tower" with what they call themselves, and you use that thereafter.
 
I can't think of any airports where the city name is used rather than the airport name, if they are different.

E.g. KWJF is Fox Traffic (when the tower is closed), not Lancaster Traffic.

Many cities have more than one airport. E.g., KFCH is Chandler Traffic. Fresno Traffic would be KFAT (if the tower is closed). This is really important in Sacramento, where there are multiple busy airports with part time towers (KSAC is NOT Sacramento Traffic -- it's Executive Traffic).

The same issue applies for talking to Tower, Ground, or Clearance Delivery, but those are usually named in the A/FD.
 
Ron Levy said:
For towered airports, as long as you're on the right frequency, it won't matter if you even say only "Tower." They'll answer anyone who calls "[anything] Tower" with what they call themselves, and you use that thereafter.
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Yes, I know that. I have however mistakenly called a departing tower by another nearby tower's name once.

"Arrow 123SA, you do realize you called me Napa tower, right?"

"Oops. Well, you know where I'm going!"
 
MAKG1 said:
I can't think of any airports where the city name is used rather than the airport name, if they are different.
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I've got two right around here -- KESN in Easton MD (Easton Tower rather than Newnam Tower*) and KBWI in Baltimore MD (Baltimore Tower rather than Thurgood Marshall Tower). Also just north of here, the tower at New Castle Airport (KILG) is "Wilmington Tower." Plenty more like that, including Isla Grande (TJIG) in Puerto Rico, where they use Isla Grande Tower rather than Ribas** Tower.

* Yes, it's Newnam, not Newman, for William S.D. Newnam Jr., who ran Maryland Airlines and managed the airport for 20 years.

** The airport's name is Fernando L. Ribas-Dominicci Memorial Airport, for my late friend Major Fernando Ribas, killed on the Eldorado Canyon raid on Tripoli in 1986.
 
Sac Arrow said:
Yes, I know that. I have however mistakenly called a departing tower by another nearby tower's name once.

"Arrow 123SA, you do realize you called me Napa tower, right?"

"Oops. Well, you know where I'm going!"
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I don't have enough fingers and toes for all the times I've done that. I still occasionally slip and call Potomac Approach "Baltimore Approach;" so far, I haven't been jumped by F-16's for that mistake.
 
Ron Levy said:
I've got two right around here -- KESN in Easton MD (Easton Tower rather than Newnam Tower*) and KBWI in Baltimore MD (Baltimore Tower rather than Thurgood Marshall Tower). Also just north of here, the tower at New Castle Airport (KILG) is "Wilmington Tower."
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Well, isn't ESN technically called Easton/Newnam Field and BWI technically called Baltimore/Washington International Thurgood Marshall Airport? If we get to count those, we can throw in Salisbury (aka Salisbury-Ocean City Wicomico Regional Airport), which goes by Salisbury Tower, and Manassas (aka Manassas Regional/Harry P. Davis Field), which goes by Manassas Tower.
 
Ron Levy said:
I've got two right around here -- KESN in Easton MD (Easton Tower rather than Newnam Tower*) and KBWI in Baltimore MD (Baltimore Tower rather than Thurgood Marshall Tower). Also just north of here, the tower at New Castle Airport (KILG) is "Wilmington Tower." Plenty more like that, including Isla Grande (TJIG) in Puerto Rico, where they use Isla Grande Tower rather than Ribas** Tower.

* Yes, it's Newnam, not Newman, for William S.D. Newnam Jr., who ran Maryland Airlines and managed the airport for 20 years.

** The airport's name is Fernando L. Ribas-Dominicci Memorial Airport, for my late friend Major Fernando Ribas, killed on the Eldorado Canyon raid on Tripoli in 1986.
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Yes, it seems when airport names get changed -- KBWI was Baltimore Washington International not very long ago -- the locals don't pay any attention and leave it as it was.

I don't think I've heard anyone at all talk about Norman Y Mineta San Jose International Airport. Well, except for the A/FD. And if that isn't enough of a mouthful, the City Council (whose members seem to define the anal-cranial inversion) wants to wedge "Silicon Valley" in there, too, to somehow convince the uninitiated that Silicon Valley is 15 miles southeast of where it really is.
 
Seems to me the easiest thing if you don't hear someone else say the name is to listen to what name the ATIS or AWOS uses. If it's an airport that doesn't have one, then there may not be enough traffic for it to matter what name you use. However, Tehachapi CA has two airports, Mountain Valley and Tehachapi Muni, and they have the same advisory frequency, so if I were flying into the former, I would say "Mountain Valley" to avoid confusion. The AWOS for the latter says "Tehachapi Municipal Airport," but I've never heard anybody say anything other than "Tehachapi" there.
 
Palmpilot said:
Seems to me the easiest thing if you don't hear someone else say the name is to listen to what name the ATIS or AWOS uses. If it's an airport that doesn't have one, then there may not be enough traffic for it to matter what name you use. However, Tehachapi CA has two airports, Mountain Valley and Tehachapi Muni, and they have the same advisory frequency, so if I were flying into the former, I would say "Mountain Valley" to avoid confusion. The AWOS for the latter says "Tehachapi Municipal Airport," but I've never heard anybody say anything other than "Tehachapi" there.
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Our AWOS gives the city name and the airport name: "Stevensville...Bay Bridge Airport. Automated weather observation yada yada yada." I can't remember off the top of my head if other AWOSs are the same...but I would imagine that they are. At least similar. At least at Bay Bridge nobody says "Stevensville traffic."
 
I called the AWOS (looked it up on Airnav). They call it "Price Carbon County Airport".

So I would say "Price Carbon County traffic, Cessna 24498, entering the 45 for runway one eight, Price."
 
That seems like quite a mouthful. My guess is that either "Price traffic" or "Carbon County traffic" would be understood by anyone who had listened to the AWOS.
 
I19 is Greene County Lewis A Jackson Regional Airport but it is always Greene County on CTAF.

I just listen to the CTAF or AWOS, etc and use what they use if nobody is around. If it is a mouthful on the AWOS, etc. I shorten to whatever seems good to me after the initial call.

Cheers
 
I just say "Hey, Y'all"

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Yes, I'm kidding. If nobody else is talking... I take my best guess... and if I'm corrected, I'm not offended.
 
Ok so first I see that I'm not the only one who doesn't know of a correct procedure for this. I appreciate all the feedback. My gut was also to go with the name used by the AWOS. But I also see it as unsafe to have 10 different aircraft in the vicinity of one airport all using different names for that same airport. Obviously most of us would pick up on the fact that others are calling into the same airport with a different name, but seems to me there should be a standard procedure. A published one. In an area with many small airports within a 50 mile radius that all or many of them use the same CTAF freq, I see the potential for confusion and risk of disaster. I guess this is just one more reason we must always be on high alert and pay very close attention at all times, especially in the vicinity of an airport, weather controlled or not.
 
It sounds worse that it is. Rarely do you have airports sharing similar or easily confused names on CTAF. At least I haven't seen it.
 
I just call them by their names 20 years ago, followed by stammering, frustration, and then remembering whatever the "new and improved" name is...

"Tri-County traf... Er... uh... Erie Traffic..."

And of course there's... "JeffCo Tower, Er... Damnit... Metrosexual "We needed to rename our airport to try to get jet traffic" Tower..."

Noticed today that even the city can't get it right. The airport name is "Rocky Mountain Metropolitan Airport" nowadays, the Tower goes by "Metro", and all the road signs on the freeway say "Rocky Mtn Airport".

Friggin' marketing retards.
 
denverpilot said:
Friggin' marketing retards.
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Let's say it all together:

"Norman Y. Mineta San Jose Silicon Valley International Airport."

Just rolls off the tongue, doesn't it?

Or another good one (not an airport, but a really useful reporting point):

"Shoreline Amphitheatre at Mountain View Presented by the Chronicle"

There was actually an exit sign on US101 that said that mouthful until recently.

The only thing that annoys me more is selling stadium naming rights every few years. It's Mile High Stadium, dagnabit!
 
Everybody calls it Syracuse approach, tower, departure or whatever. Never once have I heard anyone call it "Hancock International Airport" on the radio. Never.

In the town where I live, and fly to frequently, you can always tell the locals from the transients on the CTAF. Every time, the transients call it "Lt. Warren Eaton traffic," the official name of the airport, while you'll never hear a local say that. To us, it's "Norwich traffic", the name of the town. You just have to listen for both. When I was a student pilot, the first time I heard someone refer to it by the formal airport name, I wondered aloud to my CFI what the guy was talking about. :lol:
 
My choice for "airport with the most names" is...

KARV Lakeland Airport/Noble F. Lee Memorial Field
Minocqua-Woodruff, Wisconsin, USA

Controller called it "Arbor Vitae" which is the name of the NDB on the field. I think the locals call it "Lakeland Lee".
 
Maybe I'm just overreacting, but it seems to me we should have some standard to go by for this rather than"eh it's ok, everybody just wing it and call it whatever you like, and everyone better listen for all the different name possibilities and figure out if that traffic is a threat to you or if it can be ignored"...just doesn't seem professional in my opinion
 
I use the name from the AFD until I hear different on the ATIS, AWOS or other radio traffic. Local pilot calls are sometimes confusing or ambiguous.
 
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MAKG1 said:
Let's say it all together:

"Norman Y. Mineta San Jose Silicon Valley International Airport."

Just rolls off the tongue, doesn't it?
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I rather like Baltimore/Washington International Thurgood Marshall Airport.
 
We have a airport in northwest Arkansas called Northwest Arkansas Regional Airport. The kicker is that since two airports serve the same town only one can have Fayetteville in the radio call. XNA came after KFYV so the radio call for XNA is

"Northwest Arkansas Regional Tower, NXXXXXX......." to which they reply to the call with "Northwest Arkansas Regional Tower....."

TWR told me late one night that they have tried to shorten the name but have had no luck. They get tired of saying it 100+ times a day.
 
flyguy_17 said:
Maybe I'm just overreacting, but it seems to me we should have some standard to go by for this rather than"eh it's ok, everybody just wing it and call it whatever you like, and everyone better listen for all the different name possibilities and figure out if that traffic is a threat to you or if it can be ignored"...just doesn't seem professional in my opinion
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Why? It's uncontrolled. There's not even a requirement for a radio call at all. Nor a radio for that matter.
 
MAKG1 said:
I can't think of any airports where the city name is used rather than the airport name, if they are different.

E.g. KWJF is Fox Traffic (when the tower is closed), not Lancaster Traffic.

Many cities have more than one airport. E.g., KFCH is Chandler Traffic. Fresno Traffic would be KFAT (if the tower is closed). This is really important in Sacramento, where there are multiple busy airports with part time towers (KSAC is NOT Sacramento Traffic -- it's Executive Traffic).

The same issue applies for talking to Tower, Ground, or Clearance Delivery, but those are usually named in the A/FD.
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At my non towered airport, KUZA "Rock Hill - York County Airport, Bryant Field" on the ASOS, the only traffic pattern name used is Rock Hill traffic. Even though the name of the airport is Bryant field, I don't ever remember it being used in the last 16 years I have flown there and I suspect that most pilots who fly out of Rock Hill don't know the Bryant Field name, event though it is part of the ASOS. If you called Bryant unicom, I doubt you would get a response. At least here in the southeast, most of the airports use the city or county name. I agree that when there are multiple airports at the same city, they tend to adopt their airport name rather than the city name. Regardless, it is a local usage question and when the city/county is not ambiguous, that is what I tend to hear and use.
 
Years ago (when charts were still printed with ink on dead trees), NOAA organized the approach plates under airport name instead of city. I was looking through the Government approach plate book for the approach at WJF. Under 'L' for Lancaster? No. Under 'F' for Fox? Nope. Under 'W' for William J. Fox? Uh-uh.

It was under 'G' -- for General William J. Fox Airfield.

:dunno:
 
flyguy_17 said:
But I also see it as unsafe to have 10 different aircraft in the vicinity of one airport all using different names for that same airport. Obviously most of us would pick up on the fact that others are calling into the same airport with a different name, but seems to me there should be a standard procedure. A published one. In an area with many small airports within a 50 mile radius that all or many of them use the same CTAF freq, I see the potential for confusion and risk of disaster.
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Great! Another regulation! Just what GA needs! :rolleyes2:

I guess this is just one more reason we must always be on high alert and pay very close attention at all times, especially in the vicinity of an airport, weather controlled or not.
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My home drome is IMC this morning, I have to start flying out of an airport that controls the weather! :rofl:

More seriously, what you are pointing out as a problem really is not a problem. Check the Nall Report and let us know how many accidents were caused by mis-identified airport names on the CTAF. Your guess that this is just one more reason we have to pay attention at all times is spot on... and if we do, the existing regs are sufficient.

JMHO. -Skip
 
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