R-ATP or ATP?

Tow Mater

Tow Mater

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Jun 2, 2023
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Tow Mater
Hey there,
I am currently a college student working on my bachelors degree in aviation and currently working on my first stage towards my ASEL Commercial license and I have had some questions recently about continuing part 141 in my flight training or not and how that would hold me back from getting my R-ATP.

I am not really concerned about that right now because I don't want to go towards the airlines, my ultimate goal is the corporate/private aviation field but I'm young and have time to build up my flight hours so that is why I do not have that concern right now. Should I be more concerned about this or is it okay to get an unrestricted ATP once I get up to 1500 hours? I am new to the aviation industry and have no one to really give me guidance in this career path with the specific goals that I have in mind so that is why I have turned to y'all to see if you could help me out.

Do I need to be more concerned with the ATP/R-ATP if I'm not going into the airlines and okay with taking my time to build up my flight hours in smaller aircraft and jobs? Or should I try and pursue the R-ATP if it would help me get into the corporate aviation that I desire in the future? If you'd give me some personal experience advice and areas to look into, I would greatly appreciate it! Thanks!
 
The only reason I can see to get an R-ATP is if you’re going to need an ATP certificate prior to achieving the time requirements for an unrestricted ATP. About the only reason you’d need that is for getting into the right seat of an airliner.
 
MauleSkinner said:
The only reason I can see to get an R-ATP is if you’re going to need an ATP certificate prior to achieving the time requirements for an unrestricted ATP. About the only reason you’d need that is for getting into the right seat of an airliner.
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Disagree. No matter what job you are going after, the more credentials the better… Even if they are not needed for that particular job.
You don’t want to be “over qualified” for a job, a RATP with little time that is not a factor.
 
I don’t see an issue with just waiting for 1500 then getting your ATP. I hire flight instructors and commercial pilots, at that level, and considering what I need, an R-ATP doesn’t mean much.

I feel the ATP does. But not the interim.
 
Tools said:
I don’t see an issue with just waiting for 1500 then getting your ATP. I hire flight instructors and commercial pilots, at that level, and considering what I need, an R-ATP doesn’t mean much.

I feel the ATP does. But not the interim.
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A R-ATP->ATP pilot has between 250 and 500 operating hours and possibly seniority over an ATP that waits. Your advantage is the experience. Theirs is paid hours plus the seniority.
 
bflynn said:
A R-ATP->ATP pilot has between 250 and 500 operating hours and possibly seniority over an ATP that waits. Your advantage is the experience. Theirs is paid hours plus the seniority.
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But only in a specific environment, in which the OP has expressed no interest.
 
I would think that at that young age with a desire to be a professional pilot it's a bit premature to toss an entire segment into a "not interested" bucket.
 
Why do you want to quit Part 141? What advantage will it give you?
 
Mostly, as mentioned, unless you're headed for airlines, the R-ATP won't help much.
However, I thought of one possible advantage. If the required training and ATP-CTP course, and R-ATP are built-in, as part of your college program, then it would be worth doing. I'm not that familiar, but after a quick perusal of Part 61 regs, 61.160(g), it looks like once you hold the R-ATP, all you need to do to convert to full ATP is meet the aeronautical experience requirements (1500 hours, etc.). If you wait, then the CTP course and checkride, etc. will be all on you after the fact. You might want to discuss that with your college to see how the pieces might fit together.
 
rATP doesn't mean anything outside of the airlines. Especially corporate in the corporate world. Corporate usually requires ATP but some jobs could be acquired with just a commercial. Corporate is a tough nut to crack though. It more about who you know.
 
NJP_MAN said:
rATP doesn't mean anything outside of the airlines. Especially corporate in the corporate world. Corporate usually requires ATP but some jobs could be acquired with just a commercial. Corporate is a tough nut to crack though. It more about who you know.
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Yes, but more credentials on your resume does not hurt.

Virtually every pilot who makes a living flying an airplane has an ATP.
Do it.
 
While there is merit to the concept that "more is always better," a restricted ATP is, for the most part, employed when a new hire is short of the minimums for ATP but 1500 hours is imminently in sight. I would agree that there is little value in this intermediate step if you're not aiming at the airlines; just wait for 1500 hours and get your ATP certificate at that time.
 
MauleSkinner said:
I don’t know about that…my glider ratings have been a negative in an interview.
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how does that get turned into a negative? I can see not caring about it, but for it to be a negative?
 
skier said:
how does that get turned into a negative? I can see not caring about it, but for it to be a negative?
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Among other things, they said that it can’t count as flight time in my logbook. Reducing flight time seems kind of negative to me. ;)
 
MauleSkinner said:
Among other things, they said that it can’t count as flight time in my logbook. Reducing flight time seems kind of negative to me. ;)
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That’s still not a negative. Without the rating you’re no worse off than subtracting the time.
 
Ryan F. said:
While there is merit to the concept that "more is always better," a restricted ATP is, for the most part, employed when a new hire is short of the minimums for ATP but 1500 hours is imminently in sight. I would agree that there is little value in this intermediate step if you're not aiming at the airlines; just wait for 1500 hours and get your ATP certificate at that time.
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Don’t see how it’s a negative to have it. Neutral?? Maybe, but not imo. If you’ve demonstrated ATP abilities but just waiting to hit minimums, I don’t see how that can possibly be anything other than positive.
 
Kritchlow said:
That’s still not a negative. Without the rating you’re no worse off than subtracting the time.
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So being disqualified for a job because subtracting time from my logbook put me below minimums for the job isn’t negative? Wasting the time and expense to go for the interview wasn’t negative? I guess we use different definitions for the term.
 
MauleSkinner said:
So being disqualified for a job because subtracting time from my logbook put me below minimums for the job isn’t negative? Wasting the time and expense to go for the interview wasn’t negative? I guess we use different definitions for the term.
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Well you wouldn’t have that time in the first place if you didn’t have the rating.
As far as wasting your time, didn’t you send an app & resume before they invited you to travel to an interview??
 
Thank you all for your input!

I am really just trying to figure out how I am going to move forward in my classes because under my Flight affiliate, I am not directly under the college residential program and rules so this has caused some problems in the past and been causing me to think about finishing my commercial license under the flight school and then transferring those hours and the license to the college for transfer credits.

The only problem with this was that those credits would not count towards the R-ATP eligibility so I was just trying to get some more information on what the benefits are for either route to get the ATP. So, I am not trying to make a decision right now, but just looking for answers from the aviation communities because the college has not been super helpful in clarifying these questions that I have but I am still trying to get final answers from them.

I am still aiming for the ATP just trying to find the answers as to what would happen based on which route I could take.


What would be the best ways for a young pilot like myself to get better connections into the corporate or even private aviation industry?
 
Kritchlow said:
Don’t see how it’s a negative to have it. Neutral?? Maybe, but not imo. If you’ve demonstrated ATP abilities but just waiting to hit minimums, I don’t see how that can possibly be anything other than positive.
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I'm simply saying there's no meaningful benefit to investing time and effort into a pointless exercise. It's just my opinion.
 
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