Question for the CFIIs: PTS vs ACS

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ArnoldPalmer

Pre-takeoff checklist
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ArnoldPalmer
A question for the CFIIs (well mostly!), others welcome to chime in as well.

On the first go around, my checkride was by the PTS. Now as I get ready to redo the the checkride - It is the ACS. As instructors - or as anyone who has had the bad luck of taking the ride twice - what are the differences that I might encounter. Hoping to get done with the Instrument before Fall.

Thanks!
 
I haven't yet had an instrument student go through on the ACS. Just three private students. But I'd assume a few more risk management related questions. Fundamental skills haven't changed.
 
I just sent an IR applicant through the checkride this past weekend. I don't think you'll notice a substantial difference. Knowledge area, skills, etc. are all the same.
 
I did my oral the other day. Lots of questions on ice,t storms. All scenario based on the trip he had me plan.
 
tree96 said:
I did my oral the other day. Lots of questions on ice,t storms. All scenario based on the trip he had me plan.
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I haven't sent a student for the instrument checkride under the ACS yet but this is what I'm being told too. Heavy on the scenario based types of questions. The DPEs are also supposed to review your written test results and are supposed to ask you questions based on what you missed on the exam too, so make sure you go over it with your instructor and understand what you missed.

Other than that stuff, I doubt you'll know whether you were taking the checkride under the PTS or ACS.
 
RussR said:
I just sent an IR applicant through the checkride this past weekend. I don't think you'll notice a substantial difference. Knowledge area, skills, etc. are all the same.
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This.
 
I did my IR checkride last weekend, and don't think the ride was much different. A lot of scenario based questions during the oral, how to exit freezing rain, what to do if you accidentally fly into a t-storm, etc. Certainly have the knowledge items down.

Honestly I like the ACS document better than be PTS. Look it up and make sure you can give a good explanation for all the "Knowlege" questions.
 
What are they saying about flying into towering cumulus clouds, but NOT thunderstorms now?
 
No huge differences, mainly a different presentation format. This might be helpful to you...
 
I took a student to an Instrument practical yesterday. The DPE talked about the ACS, but his questions in the oral were pretty much from the same dog eared notes he's used for years. My student passed the oral nicely, but the DPE discontinued for weather so he didn't get to fly yet. Rescheduled for next week.
 
Why are you doing another checkride? Depending upon where you finished up with a disapproval or discontinuance, that paperwork should be fairly specific as to what you need to do.
 
If his previous checkride was using the PTS, then it has already been more than 2 calendar months ago (since the new ACS went into effect 6/15/2016). Therefore he will need to retake the entire checkride. But, reading between the lines I suspect it has been longer than that.
 
I just had my Instrument Checkride this past Friday, it's not very different compared to the PTS. Think of it as a slightly beefed up version of the PTS. The only major differences I saw was that the ACS wants you to think outside of the box for a few things, as well as have your own personal minimums for situations that you might encounter. Another major thing is that the examiner will quiz you with some additional questions that you got wrong on your Instrument written, so be sure to come to the checkride with the codes and what the codes test subjects are on.
 
Maurice Ellis said:
Another major thing is that the examiner will quiz you with some additional questions that you got wrong on your Instrument written, so be sure to come to the checkride with the codes and what the codes test subjects are on.
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This has always been the case with missed questions/areas on the written. I don't understand why some think it's a new requirement. A CFI should sit down and review what you missed on the written and make sure you have an understanding of the particular subject matter.
 
mscard88 said:
This has always been the case with missed questions/areas on the written. I don't understand why some think it's a new requirement. A CFI should sit down and review what you missed on the written and make sure you have an understanding of the particular subject matter.
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No, the flight instructors always go over it with you, but the actual DPE will quiz you on it too now. If you were referring to the DPE actually doing it prior with the PTS, my DPE never did it with my PPL.
 
On all my checkrides, I was never asked for my written test. The examiner really didn't care what score I got as long as I passed. We never went over missed questions.
 
jordane93 said:
On all my checkrides, I was never asked for my written test. The examiner really didn't care what score I got as long as I passed. We never went over missed questions.
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Really? That seems odd.

I don't think I've had a single checkride where I didn't have to show them my written. Every checkride has been with a different DPE. It was part of their checklist. None of them asked any questions or scrutinized it, but I did have to show it.
 
If you don't show the examiner your written test results, how does he know you passed? Take your word for it? That would be very surprising if he did that. Unless it's changed, the written has the areas where you missed questions. Let's say you had missed all the weather related questions. Those question codes would be in the list of questions missed. Again I would be surprise if the examiner did not ask you about weather on the oral as an example.

I always reviewed the questions a student missed prior to sending him/her on for their check ride.
 
jordane93 said:
On all my checkrides, I was never asked for my written test. The examiner really didn't care what score I got as long as I passed. We never went over missed questions.
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They had to confirm it to even start the IACRA process. You sure? Sounds weird to me too.
 
denverpilot said:
They had to confirm it to even start the IACRA process. You sure? Sounds weird to me too.
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I think, and IIRC, there is a code on the test result that gets plugged into IACRA on the DPEs side? Fairly certain the DPE looked at the results before we got started.
 
Mainly just more scenario based questions and NDB has been removed. When the FAA gets the knowledge exam codes updated you can expect more questioning on your failed items, according to the DPE I use. Historically DPEs, I know, haven't asked a lot of failed knowledge test questions as the codes only told you which group you missed. Plus until this summer the instrument exam had been insanely out of date.

I think I got an 78 on mine. On my Checkride the DPE looked at it and made the comment I had done a great job. I inquired how as I had only barely passed. He laughed and said I barely passed on the FIRST try. Good riddance to those RMI and flight planning questions which have every answer to within 1 minute. :confused:
 
Fearless Tower said:
Really? That seems odd.

I don't think I've had a single checkride where I didn't have to show them my written. Every checkride has been with a different DPE. It was part of their checklist. None of them asked any questions or scrutinized it, but I did have to show it.
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I had it in my folder with all the other paper work but no examiner really bothered to looked at it. Maybe they saw it in the folder and it was good enough for them:dunno:
 
red4golf said:
I was told that they don't need to see the paper copy because they can pull it up on-line.
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The examiner needs the paper copy from which to get the appropriate code to bring up the electronic version in IACRA.
 
denverpilot said:
They had to confirm it to even start the IACRA process. You sure? Sounds weird to me too.
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IACRA is/was the gatekeeper. If it said "pass" in there, some examiners don't bother to go deeper into what the applicant missed during the oral. If I dug around, I probably have half of my written test reports sitting around yet because the examiner never wanted to see them.

With the new ACS however, I'm under the impression that the examiner is obligated to review some or all of the missed test questions with the applicant and create scenarios based on that information to see if they actually know it. An applicant's CFI is doing them a disservice if they're just signing off the log entry stating they went over the test questions without spending much time on them now, because it is going to put the student in an awkward position come checkride time.
 
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