Question for 121 Flight Crews

EdFred

EdFred

Taxi to Parking
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White Chocolate
A discussion at work spurred the following scenario and question:

"Ladies and gentleman, we are preparing for descent into G-town, please put all yo crap away and get yo butts back in yo seats."
However,
A passenger has issues that does not allow them to return to their seats as they are in the process of emptying 47 pounds of their digestive system into the lav. And it's not vomit, so it's not like the FA can give them a big garbage bag and say "aim well."

Can you guys land anyway? Hold until you run out of fuel? Forcibly remove the passenger from the lav, put them in the seat, and just tell them to **** themselves and cause much discomfort and vomiting amongst the other passengers?

What's the procedure?
 
FAR requires all occupants to be seated and seatbelts fastened for Takeoff and Landing, even for Part 91 operations. I've heard of airliners having to taxi off of the runway before departure because a passenger went into the lav. So yes they will have to hold until the passenger complies. Now low fuel is now an emergency, so deviations can happen.
 
EdFred said:
Well played.

Seriously though. I'm talking bad enough you cant even get off the can for 60 seconds.
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midwestpa24 said:
FAR requires all occupants to be seated and seatbelts fastened for Takeoff and Landing, even for Part 91 operations. I've heard of airliners having to taxi off of the runway before departure because a passenger went into the lav. So yes they will have to hold until the passenger complies. Now low fuel is now an emergency, so deviations can happen.
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Declare it an emergency anyway if the pax says he's gonna be another hour?

I do know the FARs, that's why I asked.
 
Each airline will potentially have its own guidance for the situation and in the absence of policy the captain will make a decision based on the circumstances. While my answer was a play on words it was also an honest answer.

In general the sit down a bulckeup pa happens around thirty minutes prior to wheels on pavement most places I’ve worked so this persons issue has some time to resolve. At some point the airplane has to land regardless of where the butt is resting. If someone is in such bad shape they can’t get off the crapper for landing I would probably have the paramedics meet us at the gate to make sure they don’t **** themselves to death.
 
Seanaldinho said:
Planning a coup? Or maybe just a flight south for some tacos?
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My sister was supposed to go see a friend she hasn't seen in 3 years. But got a phone call today saying, "you can still come down, but..." her twins, other child, and husband were shooting out both ends. She elected to cancel her trip, but whatever they got came on in a hurry. So if you're on a flight, and you end up with a case of Mt Assuvius and can't get off the can, what happens in real life? I know what the FARs say, but just like lost comms, there's the FARs and there's what everyone really wants and does.

Tarheelpilot said:
Each airline will potentially have its own guidance for the situation and in the absence of policy the captain will make a decision based on the circumstances. While my answer was a play on words it was also an honest answer.

In general the sit down a bulckeup pa happens around thirty minutes prior to wheels on pavement most places I’ve worked so this persons issue has some time to resolve. At some point the airplane has to land regardless of where the butt is resting. If someone is in such bad shape they can’t get off the crapper for landing I would probably have the paramedics meet us at the gate to make sure they don’t **** themselves to death.
Click to expand...

When I got salmonella a couple years back, I was on the can for a legit hour plus. Think I'm done, stand up, nope, sitting right back down and repeat. So the "I'm gonna be an hour" wasn't out of the realm of possibility.
 
I was on an overbooked flight at Christmas time, and we took off with 3 flight attendants deadheading home seated in the lavs. When the plane was far enough into the flight for the scheduled FA's to go to work, they knocked on the lav doors, the "passenger FA's" took the now empty crew seats, and everyone was happy.
The "passenger FA's" returned to the lavs for the landing.

I think this happens more than most passengers know, and flight crew are not talking about it.

Some regs are ignored, some of the time.
 
midwestpa24 said:
FAR requires all occupants to be seated and seatbelts fastened for Takeoff and Landing, even for Part 91 operations. I've heard of airliners having to taxi off of the runway before departure because a passenger went into the lav. So yes they will have to hold until the passenger complies. Now low fuel is now an emergency, so deviations can happen.
Click to expand...

Not accurate, PIC duty is to inform the passengers to fasten their seatbelts.
 
dmspilot said:
Not accurate, PIC duty is to inform the passengers to fasten their seatbelts.
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Read what I wrote again. Yes the PIC's duty is to inform, but it is the passengers responsibility to comply with crew members directions and meet the regulations as below.

FAR 91.107 a (3) Except as provided in this paragraph, each person on board a U.S.-registered civil aircraft (except a free balloon that incorporates a basket or gondola or an airship type certificated before November 2, 1987) must occupy an approved seat or berth with a safety belt and, if installed, shoulder harness, properly secured about him or her during movement on the surface, takeoff, and landing.
 
If you gotta go, you gotta go. I would maybe ask for a delay vector until they’re out of the lav but I’m not about to go down to emergency fuel because they’re in the lav. When we’re taxiing around for a long time, people usually have to get up and use the lav at the most inopportune times which isn’t really their fault. I just make a PA saying we need everyone seated otherwise we’ll miss our takeoff time and we’ll have be taxiing for another XX minutes. That usually gets them in their seat but honestly, I’d rather have them go pee than **** themselves and us having to return to the gate and call hazmat.
 
I could imagine a situation in which a person waited about 39 seconds too long and caused a hazmat situation in the lav in which the passenger may be unable to sanitarily return to their assigned seating without creating a larger issue.
 
midwestpa24 said:
Yes the PIC's duty is to inform, but it is the passengers responsibility to comply
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You just made my point. If a passenger violates the reg, that's on them, not on the flight crew. There is no requirement for the PIC to enter a hold before landing or anything like that.
 
I've been in this situation. Gonna land. No big deal.
 
Tarheelpilot said:
Each airline will potentially have its own guidance for the situation and in the absence of policy the captain will make a decision based on the circumstances. While my answer was a play on words it was also an honest answer.

In general the sit down a bulckeup pa happens around thirty minutes prior to wheels on pavement most places I’ve worked so this persons issue has some time to resolve. At some point the airplane has to land regardless of where the butt is resting. If someone is in such bad shape they can’t get off the crapper for landing I would probably have the paramedics meet us at the gate to make sure they don’t **** themselves to death.
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This one sounds like ya should have Hazmat meet you.
 
Brad Z said:
I could imagine a situation in which a person waited about 39 seconds too long and caused a hazmat situation in the lav in which the passenger may be unable to sanitarily return to their assigned seating without creating a larger issue.
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Dammit. You beat me to hazmat:mad:
 
I was on a flight from Chicago to Milwaukee and for some reason, the cabin crew began beverage service and were in the aisle as we turned final and completely blew through the crosscheck and landing briefings.

We landed with all of them still in the aisle and none of the equipment secured.

I'll bet there was an interesting discussion with the cockpit crew after that flight...
 
Exact scenario was relayed to me by my wife and FA except it was all in Spanish coming out of Guadalajara into IAH a week ago…Viva Tequila and Mariachi’s…
 
I’m always trying to find the ‘least worst’ outcome when unusual things happen. If a pax is best left alone for physiological reasons, that’s fine. If there are more nefarious intentions…. I’m sure you’ve all seen the coffee pot AA used the other day…
This is actually an interview scenario at my airline: there’s not a right or wrong answer, just do what your junk is right with the tools on hand and time you have…
 
Wow, the stuff we learn on PoA!
 
neilki said:
I’m always trying to find the ‘least worst’ outcome when unusual things happen. If a pax is best left alone for physiological reasons, that’s fine. If there are more nefarious intentions…. I’m sure you’ve all seen the coffee pot AA used the other day…
This is actually an interview scenario at my airline: there’s not a right or wrong answer, just do what your junk is right with the tools on hand and time you have…
Click to expand...

https://globalnews.ca/news/8624682/unruly-passenger-american-airlines-coffee-pot/
 
neilki said:
I’m always trying to find the ‘least worst’ outcome when unusual things happen. If a pax is best left alone for physiological reasons, that’s fine. If there are more nefarious intentions…. I’m sure you’ve all seen the coffee pot AA used the other day…
This is actually an interview scenario at my airline: there’s not a right or wrong answer, just do what your junk is right with the tools on hand and time you have…
Click to expand...
Whole new take on ‘coffee, tea or me’
 
IK04 said:
I was on a flight from Chicago to Milwaukee and for some reason, the cabin crew began beverage service and were in the aisle as we turned final and completely blew through the crosscheck and landing briefings.

We landed with all of them still in the aisle and none of the equipment secured.

I'll bet there was an interesting discussion with the cockpit crew after that flight...
Click to expand...
What the hell we they even doing getting out of their seats. I’ve done that flight in 15 minutes from to power to brake application.
 
I seem to recall something in the regs about crewmembers having to be at their stations unless "absent in connection with his or her physiological needs" or something like that, it would seem logical that should apply to pax too.
 
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