question about my career palnning? Sky West

jarod

jarod

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hello everyone hope all is well. I am just writing today to get you all opinions on my career plan. I am just about to turn 20 and i am getting pretty into aviation and thinking about doing it for a career.

my current plan was to spend about $11,600 to get my PPL and then about another 7k to get my CFI. after i get my CFI I can then fly and start making some money off it to pay for my flight hours towards my 450 hour requirement for the commercial pilot license. obviously I will also need my multi engine, instrument ratings etc.

Does this seem realistic and possible to you all, how much on average do people end up paying to become a regional airline pilot and would a airline like SkyWest think about hiring me with no college degree and my flight experience as a CFI if i have all my ratings

thanks
Jarod
 
Just remember you will need ATP mins to get hired at an airline. You also need to do your instrument and your commercial prior to getting your CFI. Once you get your cfi you can instruct to gain the time needed for the airline. And yes absolutely any regional carrier will hire pilots with only CFI time and there are plenty with no college degrees getting hired by regional carriers as well.
 
jarod said:
hello everyone hope all is well. I am just writing today to get you all opinions on my career plan. I am just about to turn 20 and i am getting pretty into aviation and thinking about doing it for a career.

my current plan was to spend about $11,600 to get my PPL and then about another 7k to get my CFI. after i get my CFI I can then fly and start making some money off it to pay for my flight hours towards my 450 hour requirement for the commercial pilot license. obviously I will also need my multi engine, instrument ratings etc.

Does this seem realistic and possible to you all, how much on average do people end up paying to become a regional airline pilot and would a airline like SkyWest think about hiring me with no college degree and my flight experience as a CFI if i have all my ratings

thanks
Jarod
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It’s possible. Might I suggest running your Applications and Resumes through a spellchecker though.
 
jarod said:
my current plan was to spend about $11,600 to get my PPL and then about another 7k to get my CFI. after i get my CFI I can then fly and start making some money off it to pay for my flight hours towards my 450 hour requirement for the commercial pilot license. obviously I will also need my multi engine, instrument ratings etc.
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Your plan is backwards. You can’t jump from a Private cert to CFI, without having an instrument rating and commercial ticket first. In reality, you’re probably looking at $50k minimum before you can start seeing some kind of ROI.
 
jarod said:
hello everyone hope all is well. I am just writing today to get you all opinions on my career plan. I am just about to turn 20 and i am getting pretty into aviation and thinking about doing it for a career.

my current plan was to spend about $11,600 to get my PPL and then about another 7k to get my CFI. after i get my CFI I can then fly and start making some money off it to pay for my flight hours towards my 450 hour requirement for the commercial pilot license. obviously I will also need my multi engine, instrument ratings etc.

Does this seem realistic and possible to you all, how much on average do people end up paying to become a regional airline pilot and would a airline like SkyWest think about hiring me with no college degree and my flight experience as a CFI if i have all my ratings

thanks
Jarod
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Instruct to meet the 450 hour requirement for commercial? What?
 
dmspilot said:
Instruct to meet the 450 hour requirement for commercial? What?
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To obtain a commercial certificate in an airplane under FAR Part 61 rules a pilot must have:

  • 250 hours of flight time, 100 hours of which must be in powered aircraft, and 50 must be in airplanes.
  • 100 hours of pilot-in-command time, 50 of which must be in airplanes.
  • 50 hours of cross-country time, 10 of which must be in an airplane.
  • 20 hours of training, including 10 of instrument, 10 of complex or TAA, and a smattering of cross-country and practical test preparation.
  • 10 hours of solo training, including a smattering of cross-country and night.
They totaled the hours up with no overlap...wait my basic math says that wont work out either. I have no idea. But yeah, 250 hours plus commercial and instrument to get cfi
 
Sorry my post didn’t make a lot of sense and had a lot of grammatical errors. I wrote that at about 1 AM my time, I was tired.

Anyways, It looks like I was definitely wrong about the requirements for both a CFI and Commercial rating. I didn’t say it right my first post but I didn’t mean CFI for ALL my hours but I thought a good chunk of the just “flight time”
Hours could be covered under flight instructor. so it definitely is going to cost a lot more than I anticipated but still.

It’s just a stressful decision for me because I don’t know what I want to do anymore and I really feel like flying could be a cool thing for me to do with my life and there’s good money. But a lot are telling my it’s not realistic to do without paying to much money and that’s kinda what I’m seeing.

how do most people afford to do this or is it just kind of an accepted fact if you can’t do the 50k in debt a pilot isn’t the career for you?
 
I can’t advise on the career path-I don’t have the relevant experience.

I will suggest three preliminary steps.

1) Work for a while and save a lot, so that you aren’t going too far into debt for your training.

2). Make sure you can pass a First Class Aeronautical medical exam; if you have any doubts first schedule a consultation (not an actual exam) with an AME.

3) Pass a First Class medical exam.

With those steps out of the way, you’ve already gotten past the common obstacles that stand between student pilots and their professional aspirations.
 
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luvflyin said:
It’s possible. Might I suggest running your Applications and Resumes through a spellchecker though.
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Spelling Checker, not Spell Checker. Are you checking your spells or checking your spelling?

(*chortle*)
 
murphey said:
Spelling Checker, not Spell Checker. Are you checking your spells or checking your spelling?

(*chortle*)
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Dammit. Now I know why my career as a best selling author went down the toilet. I tried being a published critic but that tanked to.:sigh:
 
jarod said:
Sorry my post didn’t make a lot of sense and had a lot of grammatical errors. I wrote that at about 1 AM my time, I was tired.
Click to expand...

"Oh, well in that case, it's okay."
~ said no employer....ever
 
Timbeck2 said:
"Oh, well in that case, it's okay."
~ said no employer....ever
Click to expand...


Well I would proof read my job application a little more thoroughly than a forum post asking a random question lol.

just getting peoples opinions on what I should do
 
jarod said:
just getting peoples opinions on what I should do
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I tell folks that flying planes for a living is the kind of thing you do because you *really* want to do it, not simply because you think it'd be cool or because of potential income. It's a path that requires a large amount of financial investment, and you're not going to be making what most people consider 'good' money for quite some time, if at all. Then there are the other pitfalls with the career - time away from home, missing holidays and life events, the cyclical nature of the industry, etc.

Don't get me wrong, I love what I do and feel exceptionally fortunate to be here, but in my experience the folks that thrive in this career are the ones that went in with their eyes wide open and pushed forward because they couldn't imagine doing anything else.
 
kayoh190 said:
I tell folks that flying planes for a living is the kind of thing you do because you *really* want to do it, not simply because you think it'd be cool or because of potential income. It's a path that requires a large amount of financial investment, and you're not going to be making what most people consider 'good' money for quite some time, if at all. Then there are the other pitfalls with the career - time away from home, missing holidays and life events, the cyclical nature of the industry, etc.

Don't get me wrong, I love what I do and feel exceptionally fortunate to be here, but in my experience the folks that thrive in this career are the ones that went in with their eyes wide open and pushed forward because they couldn't imagine doing anything else.
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I understand what your saying and I definitely should be 100 percent sure this something I really want to do before I jump in all the debt to do it. I can’t say I am that passionate about it that I could not see myself doing anything else but it does seem like a job I would definitely be passionate about. Maybe not even a commercial airline I could be cargo or medical but the pay seemed good even starting out.


I’m guessing I looked in the wrong place somehow but for example I saw on Sky West they start out First Officer pay at $45 per flight hour. In my head if you assume after tax and misc. you only make $40 an hour that’s still about a 90k salary a year. But Is that not how a pilots salary works?
 
jarod said:
I’m guessing I looked in the wrong place somehow but for example I saw on Sky West they start out First Officer pay at $45 per flight hour. In my head if you assume after tax and misc. you only make $40 an hour that’s still about a 90k salary a year. But Is that not how a pilots salary works?
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No… you do not work (flight pay) anything close to 40 hours a week. Usually closer to 75 hours per month. Maybe a bit more if you are so inclined.

Food for thought… in the last 30 years of my life, I have spent somewhere between 13-14 years living in a hotel.

PS- If you think you will net $40 when grossing $45, you are sadly mistaken.
 
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jarod said:
I understand what your saying and I definitely should be 100 percent sure this something I really want to do before I jump in all the debt to do it. I can’t say I am that passionate about it that I could not see myself doing anything else but it does seem like a job I would definitely be passionate about. Maybe not even a commercial airline I could be cargo or medical but the pay seemed good even starting out.


I’m guessing I looked in the wrong place somehow but for example I saw on Sky West they start out First Officer pay at $45 per flight hour. In my head if you assume after tax and misc. you only make $40 an hour that’s still about a 90k salary a year. But Is that not how a pilots salary works?
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It's not $45 -> $40 an hour. FICA (federal), Social Security (3.5 or 7% depending on if you're an employee or contractor), state taxes (possibly), local taxes (possibly), health insurance (possibly), 401(k) (possibly) works out to around $25-30/hr but it's not 40 hrs a week, either.

Rule of thumb is take the hourly rate, double it and add 3 zeros and that's your gross. But this assumes a 40 hr/week, 50 weeks a year. Not going to happen to a newbie.
 
murphey said:
It's not $45 -> $40 an hour. FICA (federal), Social Security (3.5 or 7% depending on if you're an employee or contractor), state taxes (possibly), local taxes (possibly), health insurance (possibly), 401(k) (possibly) works out to around $25-30/hr but it's not 40 hrs a week, either.

Rule of thumb is take the hourly rate, double it and add 3 zeros and that's your gross. But this assumes a 40 hr/week, 50 weeks a year. Not going to happen to a newbie.
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3.5 - 7.0% for FICA?? Generally it’s 6.2% SS, and 1.45% Medicare. Doubled if self employed.

Perhaps I’m missing something.
 
I would probably think about getting a degree if you want to work for a legacy. I believe you can work for a major or LCC with out a degree but even then, you’ll be at a huge disadvantage. Buy a clapped out plane, hire a CFI to do your whole training and sell it. It will probably be way cheaper than any fast track school like ATP.
 
Get a college degree. Preferably not in an aviation field.

Why? Because aviation as a career is a fickle mistress. Maybe you don't have the skillset to be a pilot, or the mindset.

Maybe your airline will go bust and leave you back at entry level again. Maybe your love life won't tolerate the flying gig. Maybe you will find out you hate it, after droning along behind the FMS for hour after hour. The point is, you need a viable backup to a career in aviation. Pilots are supposed to think well ahead of the airplane. This applies to life, too. This more or less demand that you have the skill set to enable an alternative career.

This is not meant to discourage you! It is intended to let you know what you may need to bridge a gap in hiring as airlines - typically a volatile industry - come and go.

-Skip
 
Go spend 4 years in the military, preferably something aviation related. While in the military, work towards a college degree. Once out, use your GI Bill benefits for flight training while finishing the degree.
 
jarod said:
…
It’s just a stressful decision for me because I don’t know what I want to do anymore…
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I’ve heard that a lot lately. A couple of things to consider:

1. At your age, it’s not unreasonable to not know what you want to do for a ‘career’.

2. It is reasonable to do some reflection on what you want to accomplish in the next 3-5 years and then work backwards from the goal(s) to develop a plan on how to get there. That may have nothing to do with deciding on a career.

3. If I was a betting man, I’d say the stressful decision part is an external stressor because somebody is asking “What’re you going to do with your life?” because there hasn’t been an open conversation around point 2, above. That person or persons may have a financial stake in your life today. It could be the exact opposite though and you’re just trying to figure it all out without any guidance.
 
jarod said:
hello everyone hope all is well. I am just writing today to get you all opinions on my career plan. I am just about to turn 20 and i am getting pretty into aviation and thinking about doing it for a career.

my current plan was to spend about $11,600 to get my PPL and then about another 7k to get my CFI. after i get my CFI I can then fly and start making some money off it to pay for my flight hours towards my 450 hour requirement for the commercial pilot license. obviously I will also need my multi engine, instrument ratings etc.

Does this seem realistic and possible to you all, how much on average do people end up paying to become a regional airline pilot and would a airline like SkyWest think about hiring me with no college degree and my flight experience as a CFI if i have all my ratings

thanks
Jarod
Click to expand...

My suggestion is don't come to this forum for any advice on anything. Get on one of the pro pilot forums and ask your questions there.
 
Kritchlow said:
3.5 - 7.0% for FICA?? Generally it’s 6.2% SS, and 1.45% Medicare. Doubled if self employed.

Perhaps I’m missing something.
Click to expand...
Ah….I had old numbers…..you’re right.
 
grandpa-abe-exit.gif
 
I would recommend to go take a discovery flight at a local flight school. You’ll get hands on with the controls and get a better idea if it’s something you’re passionate about pursuing
 
JustinD said:
I would recommend to go take a discovery flight at a local flight school. You’ll get hands on with the controls and get a better idea if it’s something you’re passionate about pursuing
Click to expand...

I know what you mean regarding evaluating general air sense and airsickness (much of which goes away for most people) at the most basic level. On a vocational bend, I just don't see light piston GA as a particularly useful proxy for whether or not someone would be content spending their working life in a transport aircraft. Lord knows it was (and still is) apples and cantaloupes for me on a sensory experience/engagement front.

Since revenue cockpits are not exactly open to general public randos wanting to shadow uncle jimmy on a day on the job, thankfully YT videos of these jobs are all over the interwebz these days. Granted, most of the click-bait merchants and love-me-wall narcissists that riddle this space of the webz tend to favor charitably edited portions that focus on the highlights and not the drudgery. Nevertheless, there are still some whose content depicts a more grounded and less edited view. I find that a more useful proxy in the absence of an incentive flight in the specific work environment in question. More democratic too, since you don't need an aviation family connection to watch a YT video ('legacy' hires in aviation being a recurrent theme of inequity and the whole demographic question raised by other threads on this forum etc etc, but I'll digress on that).
 
hindsight2020 said:
I know what you mean regarding evaluating general air sense and airsickness (much of which goes away for most people) at the most basic level. On a vocational bend, I just don't see light piston GA as a particularly useful proxy for whether or not someone would be content spending their working life in a transport aircraft. Lord knows it was (and still is) apples and cantaloupes for me on a sensory experience/engagement front.
Click to expand...

Are you saying if he dislikes his discovery flight and initial flight training he might as well keep slogging along because eventually when he gets to a transport aircraft he might like that better? Seems like poor advice to me. No one wants someone who sucked their way to the right seat of a jet. But that might not be what you meant.
 
hindsight2020 said:
I know what you mean regarding evaluating general air sense and airsickness (much of which goes away for most people) at the most basic level. On a vocational bend, I just don't see light piston GA as a particularly useful proxy for whether or not someone would be content spending their working life in a transport aircraft. Lord knows it was (and still is) apples and cantaloupes for me on a sensory experience/engagement front.

Since revenue cockpits are not exactly open to general public randos wanting to shadow uncle jimmy on a day on the job, thankfully YT videos of these jobs are all over the interwebz these days. Granted, most of the click-bait merchants and love-me-wall narcissists that riddle this space of the webz tend to favor charitably edited portions that focus on the highlights and not the drudgery. Nevertheless, there are still some whose content depicts a more grounded and less edited view. I find that a more useful proxy in the absence of an incentive flight in the specific work environment in question. More democratic too, since you don't need an aviation family connection to watch a YT video ('legacy' hires in aviation being a recurrent theme of inequity and the whole demographic question raised by other threads on this forum etc etc, but I'll digress on that).
Click to expand...
I think if the OP has never taken a flight before, he should go up and do it to see if he even likes to fly something small.
 
dmspilot said:
Are you saying if he dislikes his discovery flight and initial flight training he might as well keep slogging along because eventually when he gets to a transport aircraft he might like that better? Seems like poor advice to me. No one wants someone who sucked their way to the right seat of a jet. But that might not be what you meant.
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Well, I know a metric ton of turbine pilots who detest piston aviation and viewed every second of piston part 61/141 centered time as a necessary inconvenience on their way to their dEsTiNaTiOn cArRiEr. People who wouldn't get caught dead flying a piston again, especially those who leave the industry for another vocation or retirement. Forget paying for it out of their own pocket (and ownership?...bwahaha), like most of us on this recreational forum do. I include many of my military peers in the aforementioned demographic btw. Not a hypothetical in the least, the turbine ranks are riddled with the very archetype you decry.

But to answer your question: No, I was not at all implying what you inferred. If anything, I was actually hinting at the inverse of your hypothetical.

fwiw, I didn't think it a particularly controversial take in a forum dominated by weekend warriors. Clearly there are plenty of people here who don't deem their enjoyment of piston flying a particularly useful proxy for entertaining vocational flying.

--break break--

OP,

Short of spending time on YT which is free, spending a day at a recurrent training provider in the full-motion happy meal boxes might be a better proxy for a taste of the job, tbh. Just don't ask to only learn how to take off. (too soon?) :D Cheers!
 
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I never meant the two follow eachother at all. And my point in recommending a discovery flight was it simply may spark a more profound interest in pursuing it, or it may be a you know what not for me moment.
 
I don’t think the OP has any clue whatsoever what it takes to be a pro pilot. None. They can say they did their homework, but obviously zero point zero homework has been done.
 
hindsight2020 said:
No, I was not at all implying what you inferred. If anything, I was actually hinting at the inverse of your hypothetical.
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That makes more sense.

Liking GA makes it more likely a person would like professional transport-category flying, I think. At a minimum the passion would drive them to progress through at least until they got to that point.

Not liking it though? I can't imagine disliking flying GA and liking flying transport category aircraft. It's like the difference between driving a go-kart and driving a bus. Additionally the transport category is a lot more work, plus you have the stress of crazy schedules (at least at regionals), quick turns, and being monitored by FOQA and ATC at all times.

hindsight2020 said:
Well, I know a metric ton of turbine pilots who detest piston aviation and viewed every second of piston part 61/141 centered time as a necessary inconvenience on their way to their dEsTiNaTiOn cArRiEr. People who wouldn't get caught dead flying a piston again, especially those who leave the industry for another vocation or retirement. Forget paying for it out of their own pocket (and ownership?...bwahaha), like most of us on this recreational forum do. I include many of my military peers in the aforementioned demographic btw. Not a hypothetical in the least, the turbine ranks are riddled with the very archetype you decry.
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I know a few of those kinds of pilots and don't really understand it. It's a paradox to me. I would put military flying in a whole different category though.
 
Remember the olden days when do you actually like to fly planes was not the question

upload_2021-8-28_11-45-40.jpeg
 
jarod said:
Sorry my post didn’t make a lot of sense and had a lot of grammatical errors. I wrote that at about 1 AM my time, I was tired.

Anyways, It looks like I was definitely wrong about the requirements for both a CFI and Commercial rating. I didn’t say it right my first post but I didn’t mean CFI for ALL my hours but I thought a good chunk of the just “flight time”
Hours could be covered under flight instructor. so it definitely is going to cost a lot more than I anticipated but still.

It’s just a stressful decision for me because I don’t know what I want to do anymore and I really feel like flying could be a cool thing for me to do with my life and there’s good money. But a lot are telling my it’s not realistic to do without paying to much money and that’s kinda what I’m seeing.

how do most people afford to do this or is it just kind of an accepted fact if you can’t do the 50k in debt a pilot isn’t the career for you?
Click to expand...
I don’t think it matters how you get the ratings. Just study your ass off and don’t fail any checkrides.
Regarding the degree. It really does make a difference at the major airline level. If you will be happy flying somewhere else then it’s value fades.
 
I started at SkyWest 5 years ago. In my class of 58 (split into two groups), I didn't meet a single new-hire who did not have at least a 4-year college degree.
 
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