Question about Cirrus Pilots

[PaulS]

I'm not saying every chute save would have been otherwise a save, just a lot of them didn't need the chute.

squares rectangles, rectangles squares.

I don't know about "a lot", but I'm sure some, probably. At the end of the day those are still wins, and if Cirrus pilots are as bad as some here think they are, there is no way they could have executed a successful landing anyway.

Here's how I look at the chute. It never enters my mind in flight planning or wx decision making, it just doesn't. Some talk about the Cirrus pilot who says something like "yeah, it looks iffy, but I have a chute." I've never heard anyone say that, but I'm sure some of those people exist, and I think they are crappy pilots and would be crappy pilots whether they owned a Cirrus, Malibu or a Jet.

I think about the chute in my preflight (pull the pin) and before I go, pre takeoff briefing, what altitudes I can use it at. That's it. On emergency training, it's the first thing I'm supposed to say, CAPS available, should I pull? The answer is usually no depending on the circumstance it could be yes, and I wouldn't hesitate.

Now let's say I had an engine failure at 8k, 2 miles from an airport that is 7k below? No brainer, a properly executed landing is almost always safer than the chute.

There is always a gray area though. I had an instructor who had pulled the chute before for an engine failure. He was on some type of checkout ride with another instructor. The engine failed, too far from the airport, which was something like 3 miles away, so they set up for a field. They got to about 400 agl and it wasn't looking good, they weren't going to make it. The other instructor was flying, he put his hands up to the chute and said "I'm gonna pull", she looked at him and said, "Do it, pull". They were lucky, it was estimated they pulled at about 320 agl, they landed in a swamp or marsh and walked away.

At the end of the day, do what gives you the best chance to live.

 

[MonkeyClaw]

There is no fricken way you can know that, none.

That goes both ways though...

 

[PaulS]

That goes both ways though...

It certainly does.

 

[MauleSkinner]

That goes both ways though...

It certainly does.

what happens in a Cirrus stays in a Cirrus.

 

[SixPapaCharlie]

what happens in a Cirrus stays in a Cirrus.

Except for the parachute

 

[Tantalum]

Your plane is only 17 minutes faster per 100 nm. That's not enough." Dude, how often do you only fly 100 nm

Exactly. Different missions for people. The folks who go 45 miles north for their once a month VFR Saturday morning waffle don't mind dawdling along at 100 knots. If you're going 500 miles it absolutely helps.

My wife would like to go to Hawaii, and when we do I want to fly while there. I'm not renting a SR22 for that. Nope, I'm renting a high wing as I want a better view of the sights from the air. And I don't plan on blowing by the waterfall/volcano/whatever at 170+ knots, so a slower speed works perfectly for that flight.

But will you at least do a 10 mile straight in final?

 

[Tantalum]

I'm sure this guy's daughter was thinking "man, I really wish I was in a Mooney right now, or a plane built in 1962. What I'm most worried about is the useful load hit this damn parachute cost us"

https://aviation-safety.net/wikibase/185181



Keep in mind this pilot was commercial rated. It is absolute hog wash to label this pilot as some rich non self fueling A-hole who doesn't know how to fly

 

[Morgan3820]

I'm sure this guy's daughter was thinking "man, I really wish I was in a Mooney right now, or a plane built in 1962. What I'm most worried about is the useful load hit this damn parachute cost us"

https://aviation-safety.net/wikibase/185181

View attachment 97076

Keep in mind this pilot was commercial rated. It is absolute hog wash to label this pilot as some rich non self fueling A-hole who doesn't know how to fly

It s absolute hogwash that having a commercial rating prevents him from being a rich non self fueling A-hole

 

[Tantalum]

It doesn't take much Googling to find the list of pulls. There may have been a handful of "gee, did they really have to pull?" but peruse the list and I bet most of us would have pulled

..it's fair to criticize a plane, or even some pilots if they exhibit poor airmanship. But to knock the chute is just dumb.

 

[eman1200]

I'm sure this guy's daughter was thinking "man, I really wish I was in a Mooney right now, or a plane built in 1962. What I'm most worried about is the useful load hit this damn parachute cost us"….

Na she was probably thinking “a Mooney, the biggest bang for your buck with its superior glide ratio, roll bar and ROCK SOLID JOHNSON BAR would have glided safely to a local airport and been usable again.”

followed by “interesting how many cirrii fall out of the sky, you don’t hear that about mooneys very often.”

Followed by “I’d rather be flying with eman in his mooney. That mofo has a roll cage!”

 

[wayne]

But will you at least do a 10 mile straight in final?

I've been slacking off and doing proper approaches or patterns. I guess I need to start doing those 10 mile straight in finals.

 

[Tantalum]

It s absolute hogwash that having a commercial rating prevents him from being a rich non self fueling A-hole?

...who doesn't know how to fly, is the full context of the statement

there's a conception out there that these planes are bought by newbies with little experience past their PPL.. get rich, get their license, and get in more plane than they can handle, and get in trouble. that might be true in some cases, just as people who buy more car, or more boat than they can handle when they suddenly get $$$$. But the correlation that chute pulls are the tools of novice pilots is the hogwash

 

[Salty]

I'm sure this guy's daughter was thinking "man, I really wish I was in a Mooney right now, or a plane built in 1962. What I'm most worried about is the useful load hit this damn parachute cost us"

https://aviation-safety.net/wikibase/185181

View attachment 97076

Keep in mind this pilot was commercial rated. It is absolute hog wash to label this pilot as some rich non self fueling A-hole who doesn't know how to fly

Wow. You kinda got lost on that parade of rants. My favorite part though is where you dis the planes built in 1962 using an accident caused by the failure of a 15 year old plane engine with only 1500 hours on it.

But I give it an B overall.

 

[MauleSkinner]

Keep in mind this pilot was commercial rated.

That’s another thing...those Cirrus pilots think “commercial” is a rating, not a certificate.

 

[PaulS]

Self fueling? Ewww, that's for the "little people".

Was he from NJ, where they can't even self-fuel their cars?

I self-fuel a little less now, but that's because the group I co-own the SR22 want to run it with a wet rate. Yuck. I was stopping and getting cheap fuel, but found I was the only one doing it. I still do, I just do it less often. I wish I could get them to switch to a dry rate. I'd drive my flying costs down by selecting my refueling locations better, and yes that would mean self-fueling a lot more often. Meh. I did it regularly in another SR22 group that had the hourly rate as dry. Same for the Baron 58, Seneca, and Arrow; all dry rates. I could really drop the cost by picking up 100+ gallons in the Baron at another airport with 100LL a $2+/gal cheaper vs a fuel truck back at the home drome. Heck yeah I'm self-fueling there! Of course, I grew up doing all the work on my cars that didn't require specialized equipment, and even renting equipment once to compress the springs on the front.

I'm just an oddball. That's pretty normal for me though.

I rent wet, I look at it this way. If I can save the owners (leaseback) a few bucks on fuel I'll do it. Just about everywhere I go is cheaper fuel than the home base. So as long as it isn't a pain in the butt to get the fuel, I'll do it.

 

[PaulS]

Na she was probably thinking “a Mooney, the biggest bang for your buck with its superior glide ratio, roll bar and ROCK SOLID JOHNSON BAR would have glided safely to a local airport and been usable again.”

followed by “interesting how many cirrii fall out of the sky, you don’t hear that about mooneys very often.”

Followed by “I’d rather be flying with eman in his mooney. That mofo has a roll cage!”

After the accident, "Eman, how did you get that dent in your head?" "My mooney mofo has a roll cage!!"


Serious question, how many Mooneys are flying these days?

 

[Cervieres]

Na she was probably thinking “a Mooney, the biggest bang for your buck with its superior glide ratio, roll bar and ROCK SOLID JOHNSON BAR would have glided safely to a local airport and been usable again.”

followed by “interesting how many cirrii fall out of the sky, you don’t hear that about mooneys very often.”

Followed by “I’d rather be flying with eman in his mooney. That mofo has a roll cage!”

Can two people even fit in a Mooney?

 

[Morgan3820]

I rent wet, I look at it this way. If I can save the owners (leaseback) a few bucks on fuel I'll do it. Just about everywhere I go is cheaper fuel than the home base. So as long as it isn't a pain in the butt to get the fuel, I'll do it.

Wait! All this crap and You are not even an owner?? A renter? A mere tenant? And you look down on us peons?
Hell, anyone can rent a Cirrus. My Mother could rent a Cirrus, and she’s been passed away for six years. Sixpapacharlie has more going on. At least a family member is a owner.
[Sarcasm given in the kindest way possible]

 

[Salty]

After the accident, "Eman, how did you get that dent in your head?" "My mooney mofo has a roll cage!!"


Serious question, how many Mooneys are flying these days?

Dunno, but I see more of them than I do Cirrus. Totally scientific evidence.

 

[PaulS]

Wait! All this crap and You are not even an owner?? A renter? A mere tenant? And you look down on us peons?
Hell, anyone can rent a Cirrus. My Mother could rent a Cirrus, and she’s been passed away for six years. Sixpapacharlie has more going on. At least a family member is a owner.
[Sarcasm given in the kindest way possible]

Trust me, I pay enough renting to own one, figure that out. Maybe Cirrus pilots aren't so bright after all.

 

[PaulS]

Dunno, but I see more of them than I do Cirrus. Totally scientific evidence.

There's a Bravo at our airport, it's sweet, if it had a chute I'd rent it. lol

 

[tspear]

Dunno, but I see more of them than I do Cirrus. Totally scientific evidence.

He said flying, not turning into piles of rust sitting at an airport and a Mooney gathering does not count, where all twenty flyable specimens show up.

Tim (I could not resist)

Sent from my HD1907 using Tapatalk

 

[Deelee]

I have read a lot of posts where Cirrus pilots are the punchline to some sort of joke.

Back to the jokes... okokokookok stop me if you heard this one -

Knock knock
Who's there?
Cirrus
Cirrus who?
Cirri - ously, I wish I could afford one!!

Oh! Thanks... thanks folks... what a wonderful audience!... okok let me know if you know this one.. have you heard about this??

What's the hardest part about flying a Cirrus? ..... wait for it wait for it....
Nothing! They fly themselves!

Hey you have all been a wonderful audience thanks and come out to the show tomorrow. Com-plete-ly new material! Don't forget to tip your waitress....

 

[Daleandee]

Maybe Cirrus pilots aren't so bright after all.

... and that my friends is what we call "a hanging curve ball!"

 

[Tantalum]

That’s another thing...those Cirrus pilots think “commercial” is a rating, not a certificate.

Fine, I'll own that

 

[Tantalum]

dis the planes built in 1962

I'm flying something built in '65 now.. so there's that. But most would rather ride in a Cirri than a '65 C model Aztec. So the point holds? Maybe?

15 year old plane engine with only 1500 hours on it

oh man.. I've made it what, 8 or 9 days without talking about our how much I hate our engines. Don't get me started here!! lol

 

[Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe]

 

[FastEddieB]

Cirrus got a bad rap at the beginning with ads in non-aviation magazines that promised carrier-like dispatch capabilities...

Cirrus wasn't alone in that. I thought this ad from Cessna, though in an aviation magazine, was egregious and sent a really bad message:

 

[Tantalum]

But it can add an exponent to your productivity curve!

 

[FastEddieB]

But it can add an exponent to your productivity curve!

But of course, “…tomorrow might not happen”!

 

[danhagan]

Of course they do 10 mile straight ins, the autopilot won't fly a pattern!

Well that's JUST GREAT! Being an RV pilot, that's going to really blow a hole into my overhead break pattern entries

 

[MauleSkinner]

But of course, “…tomorrow might not happen”!

Definitely true, but the ad implies that not waiting out something like weather is the solution, not the cause.

 

[FastEddieB]

Definitely true, but the ad implies that not waiting out something like weather is the solution, not the cause.

Exactly.

 

[Plano Pilot]

What is the idle set at?? It seems like they start at 1500-1800 rpm and may pull it back to 1200 rpm after it starts. Then they sit there for another 15 minutes before moving.

 

[MauleSkinner]

What is the idle set at?? It seems like they start at 1500-1800 rpm and may pull it back to 1200 rpm after it starts. Then they sit there for another 15 minutes before moving.

At least they don’t start the engine at WOT, and then sssssllllllllooooooowwwwwwwwwllllllyyyyyy reduce to idle because you don’t want to make abrupt changes.

 

[Rokke214]

As a cirrus owner and recent refugee from the COPA website, I’ll just say that I’m enjoying the humor of this thread. And the variety of perspectives about my airplane. It’s a nice airplane. But I do think this comment is mostly on target.

Cirrus (like the Bonanza many years ago) attracts clients who have a lot of money, but not necessarily a lot of time to be proficient in a high performance airplane. Many of those people are willing to accept the risk of the lack of proficiency because they have a chute if they need it.

A certificate is not a rating and capability is not ability. An SR22 will fly you quickly into a square corner if you don’t understand its capabilities may well exceed your abilities. Unfortunately, the folks with enough money to drop nearly 7 figures on 4 seat, piston powered airplane, often seem more focused on funding their hobbies than mastering them.

 

[PaulS]

What is the idle set at?? It seems like they start at 1500-1800 rpm and may pull it back to 1200 rpm after it starts. Then they sit there for another 15 minutes before moving.

At least they don’t start the engine at WOT, and then sssssllllllllooooooowwwwwwwwwllllllyyyyyy reduce to idle because you don’t want to make abrupt changes.

The 550 installation in the Cirrus can be tough to start if you don't have the magic process, which to my knowledge isn't easy to find from Cirrus.

Here is how I was taught. Cold engine, full throttle, full rich, prime for 3 to 5 seconds depending on temperature, obviously longer when it is in the 20s. Pump to boost, throttle to about 1/4 inch, start. It usually fires right up. Try to keep the prop below 1100 rpm during and after the start. As soon as the engine smooths out, lean until rpm rise, pull back to 1,000 rpm.

Hot engine (oil temp above 90F), mixture full rich, throttle open 1/4 inch, fuel boost on (no prime). As soon as you see fuel flow, start the engine. My experience is it starts right up. Sometimes it's starved for gas after the start, keep it running with the throttle, it will smooth out in a few seconds. Again, try to stay below 1100 rpm. When it smooths out, lean until rpm rise, pull throttle back to 1,000 rpm and you are good.

I haven't had any issues starting the 22 since I started using these procedures.

There are a lot of things to set up after start, including letting the avionics initialize, which takes longer in the older planes, everything is usually set up before you move the airplane. Some take longer than others to do it than others. I will move the plane if where I'm sitting is causing an issue.

 

[tawood]

Just came across this thread, and reminded me of a recent flying trip with my non-pilot girlfriend to Sporty's:

Some back story: I like Cirrus planes. I don't think I've ever bad mouthed them or their pilots, although I have heard/observed a few say/do some silly things, but personally I've not noticed a bad trend over any other aircraft that would support the stereotype. As far as my girlfriend, she LOVES Cirrus...its her favorite plane...maybe because they're somewhat new, or easily identifiable, or the look (she doesn't know their performance), or something else IDK, but she loves them.

Anyway, as we were taking off to head back home from Clermont County, we were waiting our turn to enter the runway when a Cirrus pilot got on the air, tying up the radio for about a full minute, sounding like a complete idiot, with him correcting himself several times over his position (but never getting it right), his intentions, etc., and lots of "umms" and "ahhhs" over the air. When he finally finished, my girlfriend (who up to that point was oblivious to the Cirrus stereotype) said, "What is it with Cirrus pilots? I like Cirrus planes, but every Cirrus pilot I've ever heard or seen acts like a complete moron!" I laughed for 5 minutes straight! She wondered what was so funny and I had to explain the stereotype.

 

[luvflyin]

Just came across this thread, and reminded me of a recent flying trip with my non-pilot girlfriend to Sporty's:

Some back story: I like Cirrus planes. I don't think I've ever bad mouthed them or their pilots, although I have heard/observed a few say/do some silly things, but personally I've not noticed a bad trend over any other aircraft that would support the stereotype. As far as my girlfriend, she LOVES Cirrus...its her favorite plane...maybe because they're somewhat new, or easily identifiable, or the look (she doesn't know their performance), or something else IDK, but she loves them.

Anyway, as we were taking off to head back home from Clermont County, we were waiting our turn to enter the runway when a Cirrus pilot got on the air, tying up the radio for about a full minute, sounding like a complete idiot, with him correcting himself several times over his position (but never getting it right), his intentions, etc., and lots of "umms" and "ahhhs" over the air. When he finally finished, my girlfriend (who up to that point was oblivious to the Cirrus stereotype) said, "What is it with Cirrus pilots? I like Cirrus planes, but every Cirrus pilot I've ever heard or seen acts like a complete moron!" I laughed for 5 minutes straight! She wondered what was so funny and I had to explain the stereotype.

And this why every airplane should have a CVR

 

[SixPapaCharlie]

As a Cirrus pilot, I just wanted to state that this is all true.