I keep reading the 20 is classified as a trainer. I’m assuming because of reduction in speed. Either way I will very excited and quite happy. The main reason I lean toward the 22 is I plan on traveling from KY to Fl and it just seems to fit the mission. But the 20 would do the job just a little slower.
Question about Cirrus Pilots
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tspear
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Timothy
I had an SR20, now I have an SR22 (in a partnership).
The SR22 is more plane, for lack of a better description.
If the SR20 meets the mission, it is a great plane. I flew mine over 300 hours in two years.
When considering the difference, it is not just a jump from 140KTAS to 165KTAS that is the difference. The climb speed, the effect of headwinds... The faster you go the less effect headwinds have in percentage impact.
Tim
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bluesideup
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Hi.
My observation is that they, just like the BMW drivers think that the plane / cars and having one of them makes them good pilots / drivers, but just the opposite is true. About 90% of them do not know how to fly their planes or drivers know how to drive their BMWs, but they think they are and that is all that counts.
Groundpounder
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Emerson Bigguns
The problem with that statement is if you drive a BMW to it's full capabilities, you are labeled an a-hole driver.
Signed,
An a-hole BMW driver.
Cervieres
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Antione
Many of my hangar neighbors own a Cirrus or a BMW, some both, and are humble, generous, and capable people almost without exception. That’s the problem with stereotypes.
Fearless Tower
Touchdown! Greaser!
It’s not jealousy. And the Bonanza stereotype wasn’t jealousy either.
It’s a stereotype to be sure and as with any stereotype it doesn’t apply to all who fly them.
But similar issue with both airframes.
Cirrus (like the Bonanza many years ago) attracts clients who have a lot of money, but not necessarily a lot of time to be proficient in a high performance airplane. Many of those people are willing to accept the risk of the lack of proficiency because they have a chute if they need it.
In short, a small portion of the Cirrus pilot population consists of people with more money than skill who tend to give the airframe a bad name.
There is nothing inherently wrong with the airplane.
3393RP
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3393RP
This is a ridiculous statement.
OneCharlieTango
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OneCharlieTango
Anyone interested in Cirrus pilot jokes should check out the Just Plane Silly YouTube channel. As usual, Bryan hits the nail on the head. See especially “How to Preflight a Cirrus” or something like that.
Morgan3820
Ejection Handle Pulled
The Cirrus chute thing is one of those things that seems to be volatile. I run a large woodworkers forum, and we have this table saw that automatically fires a hunk of aluminum into the blade freezing it in the case of skin contact and you get some of the same arguments.
Of course. a few years ago at Oshkosh they suddenly launched a bunch of powered parachutes. I got on the radio and announced the Cirrus mass arrival.
Of course. a few years ago at Oshkosh they suddenly launched a bunch of powered parachutes. I got on the radio and announced the Cirrus mass arrival.
When I started this this thread is was more of a humor thing than anything else, however it has generated some really useful information. As far as my choice (when PPL is completed) I lean towards Cirrus for lots of reasons. Performance, appearance, and yes I like the gadgets. Just seems to be the right fit.
Caramon13
Pattern Altitude
It's a boutique plane for people with a lot of money who want to skip the whole "learn to fly" process. Essentially it's a "pay to win".
Have a hard time reading steam gauges? Buy a Cirrus with a glass cockpit stream your favorite Netflix show while flying IMC. Why train to proficiency when the plane does all the work anyway right? And hell, if things fail, you can just bail and blame the weather, or other pilots. Maybe it's easier to pull the chute then to attempt to land anyway right? Who wants to taxi 5 minutes if you are right over your destination?
Doesn't surprise me one bit to hear about these morons who can't do a readback or hear on the radio "Cirrus 10 mile final, straight in".
FBOs charge well over $300 to rent a Cirrus where I live and I have ZERO interest when a 172 or an Arrow costs half that, does essentially the same thing and allows me to keep my self respect as a pilot.
It's also pretty funny to watch the sites selling aircraft and see Cirrus aircraft pop up there that are less than 10 years old with under 500 hours.
The schools advertise Cirrus' all the time to fly in and I just don't see the point. Give me a cub or a slow-flying tail dragger anyday, keep your boutique plane.
Have a hard time reading steam gauges? Buy a Cirrus with a glass cockpit stream your favorite Netflix show while flying IMC. Why train to proficiency when the plane does all the work anyway right? And hell, if things fail, you can just bail and blame the weather, or other pilots. Maybe it's easier to pull the chute then to attempt to land anyway right? Who wants to taxi 5 minutes if you are right over your destination?
Doesn't surprise me one bit to hear about these morons who can't do a readback or hear on the radio "Cirrus 10 mile final, straight in".
FBOs charge well over $300 to rent a Cirrus where I live and I have ZERO interest when a 172 or an Arrow costs half that, does essentially the same thing and allows me to keep my self respect as a pilot.
It's also pretty funny to watch the sites selling aircraft and see Cirrus aircraft pop up there that are less than 10 years old with under 500 hours.
The schools advertise Cirrus' all the time to fly in and I just don't see the point. Give me a cub or a slow-flying tail dragger anyday, keep your boutique plane.
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Bro do you even lift
then I'd go with those reasons and not really give a snot what anyone else thinks of cirrus pilots. even though they are right
tspear
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Timothy
@Caramon13
Jealous much?
I just did a cross county trip in May, total of 35 hours flying from Boston to Utah and back with lost of stops and run routing to avoid weather. A southern route through Texas going there, norther route through Wyoming on the way home.
I fly IFR or get flight following every flight. When in the north east, I heard only a couple pilots have trouble talking to ATC, none had a Cirrus.
Outside of the north east, every single flight there were Pipers, Cessnas, Beech and Mooney pilots having trouble following ATC directions. The best was Piper who asked for a pop up IFR. after he was in IMC.
The reality, if you go on flightaware.com and browse by airplane type. You will find more Cirrus flying than any other piston plane. You can almost guarantee there are douche bags in any group of individuals. You notice the ones in Cirrus because you are predisposed too based on your attitude, and that there are more Cirrus flying than other type makes them more prevalent for you to find said douche bags.
In terms of skill, Cirrus pilots run the gamut from bad to good like pretty much any other plane. However, I have seen many pilots with your attitude effectively fail to pass the recommended classes by COPA or Cirrus.
Tim
Jealous much?
I just did a cross county trip in May, total of 35 hours flying from Boston to Utah and back with lost of stops and run routing to avoid weather. A southern route through Texas going there, norther route through Wyoming on the way home.
I fly IFR or get flight following every flight. When in the north east, I heard only a couple pilots have trouble talking to ATC, none had a Cirrus.
Outside of the north east, every single flight there were Pipers, Cessnas, Beech and Mooney pilots having trouble following ATC directions. The best was Piper who asked for a pop up IFR. after he was in IMC.
The reality, if you go on flightaware.com and browse by airplane type. You will find more Cirrus flying than any other piston plane. You can almost guarantee there are douche bags in any group of individuals. You notice the ones in Cirrus because you are predisposed too based on your attitude, and that there are more Cirrus flying than other type makes them more prevalent for you to find said douche bags.
In terms of skill, Cirrus pilots run the gamut from bad to good like pretty much any other plane. However, I have seen many pilots with your attitude effectively fail to pass the recommended classes by COPA or Cirrus.
Tim
If you don’t mind me asking what plane do you fly and what your reasoning for your choice. I’m new to all this and honestly don’t know enough to intelligently argue any point very well. Cirrus may not be my choice when I go shopping.
tspear
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Timothy
How were those 2500 foot grass strip destinations in that Cirrus?
Oh you're above landing on grass strips?
I have landed in grass in an SR20. Did not even take the wheel pants off. Not a big deal if the runway is smooth.
If the runway or grass is a little longer, you should take off the wheel pants.
However, Cirrus planes are not designed for it. They are designed to go fast, and go somewhere, as simple and safe as possible.
Some year, I do want to work on a tailwheel and do some back country flying with a plane designed for it.
Tim
Like I said Im just kinda starting out here but if you buy a new Cessna doesn’t it come with glass panels? Doesn’t almost everything now come with glass panels? I know the comparison between autos and planes is a poor one, however who would go out and buy a new car/truck without traction control with the mindset that it makes you a better driver to learn the hard way to drive in the rain and snow. I grew up driving cars before antilock brakes were a thing, I can drive just fine without them but life is just easier letting the computer pump the brakes in a curve in the rain. You know we used to treat almost all illnesses with leeches, now we don’t because we discovered a better way. Just my opinion.
How were those 2500 foot grass strip destinations in that Cirrus?
Oh you're above landing on grass strips?
No red carpet and champagne for us after landing on those.
The wheel pants are really low to the ground on a Cirrus. They can be removed, but that would impact he cruise speed. Plus a higher full flaps stalling speed than most planes that typically land on grass. I would want a really smooth grass runway for a Cirrus. I would not want to land one where I flew with Bob last year. Some were dirt runways that were not in good shape. His 182 with no wheel pants handled it.
FastEddieB
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Fast Eddie B
What’s “funny” about someone who finds 50 hours a year suits his or her mission profile? And what is it to you, anyway?
I was excited to fly a cirrus, until I did it recently. To me, it had no soul. First plane I've ever flown that I didn't enjoy hand flying. It's fun to fly it like a computer though.
I don't think you can be proficient in a cirrus flying 50 hours a year. JMO
wsuffa
Touchdown! Greaser!
Welcome to Usenet.
I don't think one is particularly proficient in any plane at only 50 hours a year. Maybe someone with lots of time and just naturally good at flying, but not most of us hobbyist pilots. Maybe if one flew regularly, just lots of short flights.
PaulS
Touchdown! Greaser!
It's not for everyone, you have to be up to it to like it.
PaulS
Touchdown! Greaser!
I agree with you on this one, I don't think it's so much a Cirrus issue but more of a faster airplane with Technically advanced avionics issue. For me, I want at least 100 per year.
The guy who crashed his Cirrus on a young eagles flight, got his PPL after 99 hours in 172s and PA-28s. Three days after he got his PPL he started flying his Cirrus, which was about 2 years before the accident. During those 2 years he logged a total of about 75 hours. Not nearly enough flying in my book, especially to be taking people you don't know up flying.
A very experienced pilot may be able to get away with and stay proficient in a fast plane with only 50 hours per year, but not me.
PaulS
Touchdown! Greaser!
Landing a Cirrus in the grass is like taking a Cub on an 800 mile one day trip. You can do it, but do you really want to?
tspear
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Well, the paved airport was closed for some event and I wanted to go to restaurant close by for crabs. And I knew the grass strip was in great condition having walked it a few days before....
Tim
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EdFred
Taxi to Parking
The #1 selling certified single piston plane is a "boutique plane"?
LOL
Most of my time in a SR22 is still from a 2002 model with a six pack. Training is needed as you still have to push the right buttons.
Or deal with it when you don't. Last year I was heading to Knoxville to pick up an Angel Flight patient. The weather over TYS was not as forecasted and I saw 100' overcast on my way there. As I got there it was now 200' overcast. There was an airline holding as it was previously below their minimums. Another SR22 shot the ILS, but went missed. I did it, but didn't push the right buttons, so the AP was not not intercepting the ILS, so I disengaged it and flew in by hand. Yeah, ILS to 200' by hand, first one into TYS that morning. Yawn. I heard the airliner landing as I was getting out of the plane at the FBO.I thought, "no way!". Then I looked, and there are 3 like that on Controller right now.
WTF? *sigh* I don't get that either. I've seen plenty of planes rotting out on the tie-down areas. Others collecting dust in hangars.If your goal is low-and-slow and backcountry strips, then the SR22 is definitely not the plane for that. I you want to travel, then a SR22 is one of the planes that does that well; there are certainly others. Bob's 182 is far better for backcountry flying than our SR22.
A week ago we just flew to see our youngest who is now working in Pueblo, CO. While they have commercial flights there, there are not many and all need connections to get to/from Atlanta. Same for Colorado Springs. Really, the best way going commercial is to fly to Denver and then drive 2 hours to Pueblo. Ick. We flew in our SR22; we own 1/3 of it, not all of it. That's 998.2 nm in a direct flight, which we didn't do flying IFR with rain/storms in the Midwest both ways, so it was over 1,000 nm each way. That's where a SR22 does well.
We like to travel this way. I also fly Angel Flight missions. The SR22 is a very good plane for both of those.
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Cervieres
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Antione
Depends. 50 x 1 hour flights with some recurrent training is probably pretty good. 12 x 4 hour flights probably not. In my opinion, the SR22 is one of the easiest planes to fly as long as you respect the base to final turn.
PaulS
Touchdown! Greaser!
Just saying in general Tim, I'd do it if the I knew the conditions were right, but I'm a renter and they don't want their airplanes on grass.
PaulS
Touchdown! Greaser!
It's the only way to get to some amazing places. Why do you hate middle America?
I fly a Cirrus, you are all peons to me.
Stinky bait is stinky.
tspear
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Timothy
That's really shocking....I hadn't heard those details. I thought there would be higher standards for YE pilots.
PaulS
Touchdown! Greaser!
Stinky bait is stinky.
It does take some getting used to, I think it has to do with the stick, or more accurately I guess, modified yoke. It only takes slight pressure to change things as you fly along. So a light touch is needed. The electric trim takes a bit to master also, which can make it miserable if you don't have it mastered. They fly a little different between generations.
My observation is that it takes a couple hours to get used to it. What really helps is an instructor who will take the time to explain how to trim to you. What I do is big adjustments to get most of the pressure off, then once the airplane is settled, meaning at the airspeed it's going to fly at, then do a fine tune, which involves quick jabs on the trim button. Now it sounds like a PIA, but honestly now, I don't even think about it, it just happens.
PaulS
Touchdown! Greaser!
It was in the NTSB initial report.