purchase of an aircraft with missing registration?

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alanbreck

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AlanB
What are the concerns regarding purchasing an aircraft with a missing registration? The owner is having trouble finding it. He knows it exists, but has misplaced it. The FAA online database confirms the plane as having a current registration through 2020. But the one in the plane at the moment is the one that expired last year.
The owner can of course submit a written request to the FAA for a re-issuance. But then we have to wait (at the speed of government) for that to arrive. I'm interested in purchasing this plane quickly, because it's a hot commodity and the sharks are swirling. And once purchased, I'd have to submit a registration application (with bill of sale) anyway to get it in my name. So it seems a waste of time to wait on the government twice.

What would you do?
 
Seems to me that current registration is part of required documentation for flight.

What else does this seller of the hot commodity not keep up with very well?
 
There's not going to be any way around going to the government twice.

A missing registration wouldn't give me pause about purchasing a plane, but it would make me double and triple check everything else.
 
I'd go to the local FSDO and speak with them. Registration is required for flight. Like others have said, What other paper work is lost or missing.

Comb through the log books for other missing paper like:
* 337's
* Critical 8130's
* Flight Supplement manuals (for avionics or STC's are required for flight)
* W&B
* Airworthiness cert
* etc.

Just trying to help with a memory jog for anything else.
 
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I would think the airplane is stuck where it is until you can get a duplicate... You can't even transfer ownership without it. Look under the seats....and in that skinny drawer in the kitchen where everything winds up...
 
I'd bet if you call the FAA Registration Branch that there's a process in place for temporary operating authority pending issuance of a duplicate registration.
 
When you file the registration application they (the FFA) will issue you a new one... Go for it...
 
FlySince9 said:
I would think the airplane is stuck where it is until you can get a duplicate... You can't even transfer ownership without it. Look under the seats....and in that skinny drawer in the kitchen where everything winds up...
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Not true you can transfer ownership without the registration card, you do not need the registration card to buy the airplane either.

If you buy the airplane you will fill out a new application for aircraft registration with your information address etc and then submit to the FAA with a signed by the seller a bill of sale and $5.00, take a copy of registration application or the pink slip if you have that form and put it in the airplane and go flying, all done. You now own it.

Do a title search that will show who the aircraft is registered to and if there are any liens on the plane then proceed, a different bill of sale other than the FAA one which is between you and the owner might have language that says " Orville" is the sole legal owner and transfers all interest, yada yada, that way he is stating he is the owner in writing.

Now the owner can not fly the plane with out the registration card being in the airplane but the way around that is for him to transfer the airplane to another person or corporation and then register the airplane in the new name , say his wife cold be the new owner but only if he keeps the plane, he can ask for a duplicate registration card from the FAA but they are slow.

This is more the owners problem if he keeps the plane if he flies it.

To get a new card he can also pay a title search company such as Aero Space reports to get him the registration card quickly.. maybe

Call an aircraft title company and ask them, they will guide you through it all I have used the one I mentioned many times and so does my bank
\
Like some one else said make sure you have all the documents as per above, they missed any STC's add that if any, make sure have all the log books AF engine and Prop and Avionics if one
 
@strangebird

Based on your long-winded response, I'll defer to your expertise, but I still think he should check the kitchen drawer before going through all of that...:D
 
If you buy it zero issue.

For a test flight......that’s different.

The when you buy the plane you will fill out the carbon copy paper, the pink copy (I think it was) stays in the plane as your temp till the FAA sends you a new reg, when I sell a plane the current reg does not leave with as it is no longer valid

*Ha, just got my new registration in the mail today and sure enough this was on the back of it

845-F3559-81-A7-48-D4-B28-D-F2897-FC8144-C.jpg
 
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Get an agreement in writing that lets you place a deposit to purchase the plane pending him providing the papers. If he can’t supply then you get deposit back. If he does then you pay balance or he gets to keep deposit. Deposit holds plane for you xx days or until conditions are met.
 
texasclouds said:
Get an agreement in writing that lets you place a deposit to purchase the plane pending him providing the papers. If he can’t supply then you get deposit back. If he does then you pay balance or he gets to keep deposit. Deposit holds plane for you xx days or until conditions are met.
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Why would he supply you with invalid registration?

The only issue would be if he wanted to take the plane for a flight before buying it, otherwise there is zero issue and he wouldn’t get the old registration anyways.
 
James331 said:
Why would he supply you with invalid registration?

The only issue would be if he wanted to take the plane for a flight before buying it, otherwise there is zero issue and he wouldn’t get the old registration anyways.
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I thought he said registration was current, but the papers misplaced.
 
Eh? You don't need the registration to transfer ownership. You fill out the bill of sale and the new owner's registration application, he can then take the temporary and fly on that. Of course, it behooves you (via title search or whatever) to make sure that conveyance is valid. The FAA is rightfully really sticky to make sure the transfer is filled out properly.
 
Thanks for the input all.
You've prompted me to look in a variety of directions. The most helpful for my particular situation I think, is I came across this in the cover page to AC8050-1 ...

upload_2018-11-6_12-45-21.png
 
For a test flight with the seller, who cares if he misplaced the registration, as long as he's PIC it's his problem, not the buyer's. After the sale, you're legal to fly with the pink copy of the new registration application.
 
I think he is selling the same plane to 5 people simultaneously.
(j/k - didnt mean for you to wake up with a start at 2:30am tonight)

My last two buy/sells, my title co in okc handled all that - they are pros, know the best way to navigate all these questions and good rates:
https://www.aerospacereports.com/
 
alanbreck said:
What are the concerns regarding purchasing an aircraft with a missing registration? The owner is having trouble finding it. He knows it exists, but has misplaced it. The FAA online database confirms the plane as having a current registration through 2020. But the one in the plane at the moment is the one that expired last year.
The owner can of course submit a written request to the FAA for a re-issuance. But then we have to wait (at the speed of government) for that to arrive. I'm interested in purchasing this plane quickly, because it's a hot commodity and the sharks are swirling. And once purchased, I'd have to submit a registration application (with bill of sale) anyway to get it in my name. So it seems a waste of time to wait on the government twice.

What would you do?
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Escrow the purchase until you have a lien free registration.
 
I had a similar issue where on annual it was missing...the registration branch faxed me a Temp within two ours of request by fax as long as I had promised to send them $2.00 by mail...the replacement showed up within two weeks. This was in July.
 
James331 said:
If you buy it zero issue.

For a test flight......that’s different.

The when you buy the plane you will fill out the carbon copy paper, the pink copy (I think it was) stays in the plane as your temp till the FAA sends you a new reg, when I sell a plane the current reg does not leave with as it is no longer valid

*Ha, just got my new registration in the mail today and sure enough this was on the back of it

845-F3559-81-A7-48-D4-B28-D-F2897-FC8144-C.jpg
Click to expand...


There will be another thirty answers in this thread explaining why the airplane will never fly again when two bucks will fix the problem
 
The internet is amazing, so much information right at your fingertips. Too bad 90% of it is wrong...

It is amusing to see how the FAA prints the information on what to do if the registration is lost on the back of the very piece of paper that would be lost if the information were needed.
 
Dana said:
For a test flight with the seller, who cares if he misplaced the registration, as long as he's PIC it's his problem, not the buyer's. After the sale, you're legal to fly with the pink copy of the new registration application.
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Doesn't even need to be "pink" anymore. The FAA aircraft registry was finally dragged kicking and screaming into the new millennium.
 
I would buy it and submit the paperwork. When the paperwork arrived I would place it inside the aircraft I had been flying around and enjoying while I was waiting on paperwork.
 
Silvaire said:
The internet is amazing, so much information right at your fingertips. Too bad 90% of it is wrong...
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My caution to the buyer was that if something like required documents for flight cannot be provided by the seller, who probably knew he was trying to sell an airplane, makes that sellers attention to details highly suspect.

I'm sure all his maintenance was spot on and well documented, somewhere.
 
If the engine runs then I don't think the airplane gives two farts in the wind about what papers are in the cabin. ;)

Since the registration is REQUIRED to be in the aircraft along with the airworthiness certificate, operating limitations and a good W&B, it makes one wonder why it's NOT in the airplane. Like others have said, I would be looking over those log books very carefully. In my limited (but valuable) experience, most airplanes for sale that have a few snags like this are usually harboring plenty of other little secrets that will make you happy to walk away. There are LOTS and LOTS of airplanes for sale. Buy your own adventure, not someone else's neglected pile of deferred maintenance.
 
Lachlan said:
...

Since the registration is REQUIRED to be in the aircraft along with the airworthiness certificate, operating limitations and a good W&B, it makes one wonder why it's NOT in the airplane.
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Not really. Since the OP wrote: “The FAA online database confirms the plane as having a current registration through 2020. But the one in the plane at the moment is the one that expired last year.”

I checked the registration on a plane that I occasionally rent one time and it was expired for over a month. I talked to the management who initially freaked out as it had been flown numerous times since the expiration including by his CFIs. After a search of all of the desks, the new one was found. They had simply forgotten to swap it out with the old one in the plane. A big oops by them and all of the pilots who missed it, though in the end, just a minor thing that was easily corrected. I’m willing to bet a tall cold one that the situation is the same here.
 
SkyDog58 said:
Not really. Since the OP wrote: “The FAA online database confirms the plane as having a current registration through 2020. But the one in the plane at the moment is the one that expired last year.”

I checked the registration on a plane that I occasionally rent one time and it was expired for over a month. I talked to the management who initially freaked out as it had been flown numerous times since the expiration including by his CFIs. After a search of all of the desks, the new one was found. They had simply forgotten to swap it out with the old one in the plane. A big oops by them and all of the pilots who missed it, though in the end, just a minor thing that was easily corrected. I’m willing to bet a tall cold one that the situation is the same here.
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It’s still required to be on board, and valid. Call your FSDO and ask them. ;)
 
I couldn't care less about the past owner's registration. The sale documents solve the missing registration problem. If I order a title report, which I do when I buy airplanes, the validity of the missing registration would be confirmed. That and I have an app for that. No big deal.
 
SkyDog58 said:
...After a search of all of the desks, the new one was found. They had simply forgotten to swap it out with the old one in the plane...
Click to expand...

This is what happens with a document that only cost you five bucks. :)
 
What is really stupid is FAA doesn’t care what name is on the registration. You could make one up if you wanted to.
 
Silvaire said:
This is what happens with a document that only cost you five bucks. :)
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Clip4 said:
What is really stupid is FAA doesn’t care what name is on the registration. You could make one up if you wanted to.
Click to expand...

Can you imagine the great gnashing of teeth if the FAA demanded as much documentation and money as your typical state DMV?
 
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