Private Pilot HIMS?

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I'm a non-current PPL with an expired third class medical. I stopped flying approximately 15 years ago but the itch to get back in the air has always been there so I would renew my medical with the intention of getting current again every three years up until about 5 years ago. I have a DUI from 1999 that was reported to the FAA during the subsequent medical exam and there was no action taken againt my certificates. In the last few years my drinking steadily increased to the point that I realized I had a problem and needed help so I checked myself into a 28 day residential program and started attending AA meetings after my discharge. There was no legal impetus to make this change, it was purely a personal choice.
I will obviously need to report this if I decide to renew my medical certificate, my question is will I be required to undergo a HIMS evaluation for a second or third class medical?
 
Have you been sober for at least two years, and can you document that? Are any other friends of Bill's willing to go on the record for you?

If not, then I'm pretty sure you'll have to wait until you have two years sober. But I could be wrong. You probably need to talk to Dr. Bruce or another hard-case AME.

Rich
 
Hopefully you also notified the FAA civil security office of your conviction. Just reporting it on the next medical doesn't cut it. If you didn't I would suggest talking to an aviation attorney before doing ANYTHING further.

Yes, while I apply you proactively taking steps to turn your life around, the FAA will see that treatment as sign that you are indeed an alcoholic and there will be hoops to jump through now. After you resolve the legal issue (if any), get to a good HIMS AME (like Dr. Chien) and consult with him about how to go about it.
 
ejensen said:
Take a look at Light Sport.
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<rant on>This is why the current system is so broken. Light Sport shouldn't be a catch all bucket. I understand there being higher standards for First and Second class medical as they are flying for a living. However there should be reasonable medical standards available for the 3rd class. There should be methods to reasonably comply with the medical standards with out thousands or tens of thousands of dollars of testings and procedures that are only called for by the FAA. </rant off>

But for the OP. If you are really serious get a hold of Dr. Bruce like others have said. His fee to review your file is ridiculously low for the time and advice he will provide you on the matter even if he isnt going to be the one to do the medical he will at least provide you with the exact road map that you need.
 
You think people with documented substance abuse disorders should not be obliged to demonstrate they are not still suffering form the problem? AA (and other self-imposed abstinency) has horrendous track records. There's good reason these hoops are there.

The poster is ahead of the game in that he has some real treatment history. The FAA will like that.
 
Unregistered said:
I'm a non-current PPL with an expired third class medical. I stopped flying approximately 15 years ago but the itch to get back in the air has always been there so I would renew my medical with the intention of getting current again every three years up until about 5 years ago. I have a DUI from 1999 that was reported to the FAA during the subsequent medical exam and there was no action taken againt my certificates. In the last few years my drinking steadily increased to the point that I realized I had a problem and needed help so I checked myself into a 28 day residential program and started attending AA meetings after my discharge. There was no legal impetus to make this change, it was purely a personal choice.
I will obviously need to report this if I decide to renew my medical certificate, my question is will I be required to undergo a HIMS evaluation for a second or third class medical?
Click to expand...


I think you're going to be okay for 2 reasons, the DUI is singular and long ago, and the rehab program was self initiated. I don't think they're going to stick you with a HIMS program for a third class, but that's just an opinion with no sway. You may want to contact Bruce Chien for an authoritative reply.
 
I don't either, they'll want all the treatment records and probably a single evaluation by a HIMS (or board certified psychiatrist) but it won't be as bad as it might have been.
 
flyingron said:
I don't either, they'll want all the treatment records and probably a single evaluation by a HIMS (or board certified psychiatrist) but it won't be as bad as it might have been.
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I would bet since it was self initiated, the treatment record/report will suffice, since self initiation already demonstrates what the shrink is looking for to generate a positive report.
 
flyingron said:
You think people with documented substance abuse disorders should not be obliged to demonstrate they are not still suffering form the problem? AA (and other self-imposed abstinency) has horrendous track records. There's good reason these hoops are there.

The poster is ahead of the game in that he has some real treatment history. The FAA will like that.
Click to expand...

If you are referring to my comment, quite the opposite. Light sport shouldn't be the catch all bucket for those who have to jump through medical hoops. I am all for a reasonable 3rd class medical with the understanding that those looking for a 3rd class medical aren't doing it for work. There should be a balance between safety and cost of the additional requirements. Substance abuse may not be the best example of how overly cost and time burdensome, but it is an example of how eliminating the 3rd class isnt feasible yet this current all or nothing with 3rd class vs light sport is not the answer IMHO.

If the doctors (PCP and AME) cant determine if an individual is safe to fly how does someone behind a desk reviewing the paperwork really add value to the system. If its a trust issue (or preserve jobs / funding), then audit and monitor the AME to ensure that they are doing their job. But if i recall correctly the percent of special issuance approval rate is in the upper 90% range after spending a ton of money on additional, often expensive, testing. This tells me the process is more of a CYA issue, not an issue of safety.
 
aanderson81 said:
If the doctors (PCP and AME) cant determine if an individual is safe to fly how does someone behind a desk reviewing the paperwork really add value to the system...
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I thought I had well-formed opinions on all this until the news story a few weeks ago about the airline captain who died on the job during a red-eye flight. He held a valid first-class medical despite a medical history which included a heart attack and bypass surgery.

I now believe the whole system is pretty much a joke.
 
PW_Plack said:
I thought I had well-formed opinions on all this until the news story a few weeks ago about the airline captain who died on the job during a red-eye flight. He held a valid first-class medical despite a medical history which included a heart attack and bypass surgery.

I now believe the whole system is pretty much a joke.
Click to expand...

It's not a joke, you just don't understand the mission of the FAA. The FAA's mission is to assure the viability of the industry. The number one requirement in assuring a viable aviation industry is in maintaining profitable insurability at a premium rate that allows the aviation business to be profitable. This is the same issue the early stock and insurance markets faced with marine insurance. At that time there were no government bureaus to deal with this sort of thing so they created 'Class Societies', Lloyd's Register being the first, to set standards and do inspections of equipment so the actuaries would have some base standards upon which to model their loss tables and set a profitable premium. When aviation came along, rather than industry carry the cost of this burden, it was shunted to the taxpayer.

The system worked just fine in that case with no loss incurred. The reason heart disease is so easy to get an SI for is because the actuaries have a lot of data and can accurately predict the odds. With an airline pilot you dilute the odds even further with a cockpit with two qualified pilots.

The FAA is the taxpayer funded Class Society for the insurance industry. The entire bureaurocracy is nothing but corporate welfare. Your safety is merely a byproduct of saving money, and beyond the point of diminishing returns on profit, your safety has negative value.
 
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aanderson81 said:
If you are referring to my comment, quite the opposite. Light sport shouldn't be the catch all bucket for those who have to jump through medical hoops. I am all for a reasonable 3rd class medical with the understanding that those looking for a 3rd class medical aren't doing it for work. There should be a balance between safety and cost of the additional requirements. Substance abuse may not be the best example of how overly cost and time burdensome, but it is an example of how eliminating the 3rd class isnt feasible yet this current all or nothing with 3rd class vs light sport is not the answer IMHO.

If the doctors (PCP and AME) cant determine if an individual is safe to fly how does someone behind a desk reviewing the paperwork really add value to the system. If its a trust issue (or preserve jobs / funding), then audit and monitor the AME to ensure that they are doing their job. But if i recall correctly the percent of special issuance approval rate is in the upper 90% range after spending a ton of money on additional, often expensive, testing. This tells me the process is more of a CYA issue, not an issue of safety.
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No private AME has ever determined that an individual is safe to fly. They only certify that the individual "has met the medical standards prescribed in Part 67," yada yada yada, not that the individual is "safe to fly." To do so would expose AMEs to far too much liability.

The only doctors who actually determine that an individual is fit to fly are the Federal Air Surgeon or Regional Flight Surgeons when signing Special Issuance medical authorizations, which by definition are only issued to people who don't meet the "medical standards prescribed in Part 67," yada yada yada."

In summary, the only way to be declared "safe to fly" is to not meet the medical requirements. If you do meet the requirements, you can never be declared fit to fly. It is only when you do not meet the requirements that that finding can be made.

If this starts making sense to you, please seek psychiatric help immediately. But it is, nonetheless, the truth.

Rich
 
I'm the OP. Everybodies input has been appreciated. I'll contact a knowledgable AME and see what their opinion is. I don't mind jumping through a few hoops to renew my medical but having to complete a full HIMS evaluation doesn't seem worth it since I have no plans to fly professionaly. Thanks
 
aanderson81 said:
<rant on>This is why the current system is so broken. Light Sport shouldn't be a catch all bucket. I understand there being higher standards for First and Second class medical as they are flying for a living. However there should be reasonable medical standards available for the 3rd class. There should be methods to reasonably comply with the medical standards with out thousands or tens of thousands of dollars of testings and procedures that are only called for by the FAA. </rant off>

But for the OP. If you are really serious get a hold of Dr. Bruce like others have said. His fee to review your file is ridiculously low for the time and advice he will provide you on the matter even if he isnt going to be the one to do the medical he will at least provide you with the exact road map that you need.
Click to expand...

I agree the third should go away. I'd probably loose value on my airplane but I'd be glad to suffer that. For now if you want to avoid spending thousands trying to prove a negative to the FAA and then roll the dice, LS is there. If you're turned down, LS is off the table.
 
Yes, you will need to go through the HIMS process to obtain your medical. If you decide to pursue: go to any AME. decision deferred to FAA. FAA will request this and that. You send info ... they will then say contact HIMS AME. You can get your medical back. Yes it will require abstinence, time and $$$.
 
lbfjrmd said:
Yes, you will need to go through the HIMS process to obtain your medical. If you decide to pursue: go to any AME. decision deferred to FAA. FAA will request this and that. You send info ... they will then say contact HIMS AME. You can get your medical back. Yes it will require abstinence, time and $$$.
Click to expand...

The problem with going to "any AME" in a case like this is that once the paperwork (or virtual paperwork now that we're in the digital age) gets to OKC, long waits will ensue every time it moves from one set of eyeballs to another. Starting off with the right HIMS AME and getting all the ducks quacking in chorus prior to submitting the paperwork might limit the number of eyeballs, and therefore shave some time off the wait before the coveted paper is issued.

The downside, of sorts, is that starting with a HIMS AME practically guarantees that the medical will be contingent on the HIMS rigmarole. But that's overwhelmingly likely to be the outcome anyway, so it's not much of a downside.

Rich
 
yes the waits are 3 to 5 weeks ...& there are not that many HIMS AME's. A HIMS AME cannot start the process. The FAA will advise airman when this is necessary - then airman meets with a HIMS-AME and that doctor (in writing to the FAA) agrees to be the 'medical sponsor'. The 'rigmarole' then begins.
 
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lbfjrmd said:
yes the waits are 3 to 5 weeks ...& there are not that many HIMS AME's. A HIMS AME cannot start the process. The FAA will advise airman when this is necessary - airman meets with HIMS and that doctor (in writing to the FAA) agrees to be the 'medical sponsor'. Then ... the 'rigmarole' begins.
Click to expand...

Thanks. I stand corrected.

Rich
 
lbfjrmd said:
yes the waits are 3 to 5 weeks ...& there are not that many HIMS AME's. A HIMS AME cannot start the process. The FAA will advise airman when this is necessary - airman meets with HIMS and that doctor (in writing to the FAA) agrees to be the 'medical sponsor'. Then ... the 'rigmarole' begins.
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Given you user name and screen name, could you share your qualifications to post what appears to be expert opinion regarding this topic? Thanks.
 
Mason said:
Given you user name and screen name, could you share your qualifications to post what appears to be expert opinion regarding this topic? Thanks.
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sure ... i know i am the 'nugget'! in these hallowed halls ....

my opinions are expert (at least in my mind lol) but never the last word in this business: I exert ALL efforts to assist airmen in obtaining their medicals. ps i updated my profile too.
Louis Blanding Fowler Jr., M.D.
Family Practice
Senior Aviation Medical Examiner
FAA/HIMS/ATC
Addictions Treatment
Medical Aesthetics
431 E. Government St.
Pensacola, Fl 32502
850-433-9391
​


FAA AME ('84) HIMS ATC // Medical School: Charleston // Medical Training: Bethesda Naval and NAMI @NAS Pensacola.
 
Guys, Louis is the real thing. If I do nothing else while I am intermittently here, I'm gonna help get him launched. You guys treat him right, now, and if someone accuses him of being here to "profit off the system" you guys punch him out, real good now, OKAY?

I will add to this string, I do lots of private pilot HIMS-before it becomes "literally" HIMS. How're you going to show two years of nonabuse (67.307) without someone running your randoms program? Recovery activities program? Evaluations to prove you are in sustained recovery?

My take is, the outline of HIMS (Private or 121) is to give the FAS what he needs to take a chance on issuing you. Once you are issued, and are officially sponsored by a HIMS AME (who holds your certification and HIS agency reputation in his hands, after all he has recommended you), that is the essence of HIMS whether you are a private pilot or a Flight Deck officer. You can do this BEFORE, or AFTER you get the HIMS demand letter. My take, is if you have the insight into your problem, START NOW and save time. You can get a lot done before the demand letter arrives....

AS in, a guy I cut loose last year, chief pilot for a 40 man Chicago FBO, was only down 3 months because by the time the FAA issued the 61.15 revocation letter, he was proveably sober for six months, and in recovery. We got him a SECOND class on the 110th day of his leave (he only got 12 weeks), and a FIRST the month after.

He didn't lose his job. In fact during the three years of sponsorship he worked so hard he had written all the ops manuals for his company's 135 certificate for seven types. He and the owner were the only two typed in them ALL.

Now, if I could only get him into Canada.....
 
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