Private Pilot Ground School

kimberlyanne546

kimberlyanne546

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Kimberly
Unfortunately, due to low enrollment in the community college, this class has been removed (from receiving a grade and college credit).

It has become an "adult education" or "community education" class, meaning you pay a lot more money and it does not go on your record.

When I started my training, the class was still "real" but I had missed 8 weeks out of the 13 weeks and I didn't want to wait another several months to take the written. At the time, my CFI was very much against the idea asking me why I could not just study at home. He did not feel I would learn more in a classroom setting.

Well, now I am not with him anymore and I disagree.

So . . .

I just signed up for the $160 class (and I haven't even bought the books yet). Private Pilot Ground School (prep for the written). I am doing it for review, partly, and partly because I may want to become an FAA certified ground instructor and would like to see first hand how it is being taught. Plus I get to talk pilot stuff one night a week after work for 13 weeks.

There are very few options like this left in the Bay Area and I have high hopes that one day, if I get all my certs, I could be teaching a night school to students.

Kimberly
 
$160 seems like a pretty good deal. Our local community college has the PP ground school for $286. It's also in the 'continuing education' category.
 
Ron Levy said:
Good thinking and analysis. Let us know how it goes.
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Thanks. Unfortunately, the teacher is my "competition" but I hope the teacher doesn't see it that way. We know each other through my airport, and parties, and of course all the aviation organizations. The teacher is a CFI and aircraft owner and as far as I know the only person doing this in the area. That is a sensitive thing, I don't want to step on any toes there. I offered to be a "teachers assistant" but the reply was that I could not since I would then have to be made an official employee for the college and the class starts this week.

I think we are friends and I hope this will be seen as a good thing by all.
 
Matthew said:
$160 seems like a pretty good deal. Our local community college has the PP ground school for $286. It's also in the 'continuing education' category.
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Good to know. Here is the list of materials sent to the students:

Text & Tools:

1. Jeppesen Guided Flight Discovery Private Pilot textbook (2007 edition or later.) Used editions can be found online at a reduced price.

2. Jeppesen Private Pilot FAA Airmen Knowledge Test Guide, latest edition.

3. Jeppesen Student Flight Computer (CSG) JS514101

4. ASA Rotating plotter and Jeppesen E6B Flight Computer.


Note: A web search for the above items will produce a number of online Pilot Supply stores.


A different brand of flight computer (not electronic) and plotter may be used if you already own these items.



Materials:

1. a pencil with eraser

2. calculator

3. red felt tipped pen

4. note paper

5. sectional chart (will be provided)
 
I don't understand the difference between # 3 and # 4

It seems one is plastic or cardboard (for students on a budget) and the other is metal.

Though I feel ripped off now, I got the "all in one" thing from Kings which was between $500 - $700. It came with a metal E6B and a plastic plotter.

Not sure if I can use their book but the one for this class retails at $85 and my searches online for used bring that down to only around $50. Then I need to buy the other book which is cheaper. My plan is to just go to the first class this week and then decide. I know some colleges cancel classes if not enough students attend, so I need to see how many show up. I would hate to buy everything for no reason.
 
Oh and by "get all my certs" I mean that I talked to Tim and there are apparently several different tests / certs I need to teach this kind of course. I did not mean flying certs, which right now I can't afford.
 
I actually took this class myself. I can't remember what it cost back then, but the materials required were:

Plotter
Jepp cardboard E6-B
Jepp private pilot knowlege test guide

All were available in the bookstore.

The Jepp textbook was NOT required so it was not available in the bookstore, but the instructor did take orders on the first day of class and we all ordered one at her discount. There was some technical reason that the book was not required, it had something to do with the college internal policies.

It sounds like I used the same materials your class is using. And we also had the ginormous E6-B in the classroom. Sectionals were handed out when necessary - I think they were the CFI's pile of expired sectionals or some that she'd gotten from an FBO after they expired.

We had about 12 people in the class. It became obvious after the first couple of classes which students were catching on and which weren't. We ended up getting paired together and helping each other out when we were working on w&b or navigation problems. Turning on the speakerphone helped a lot when getting ASOS reports and FSS briefings for our 'practice' flights. We, the students, didn't actually talk with FSS to get a briefing, but the CFI did.

If you have a good drive and aptitude for teaching, a group ground-school seems like a pretty nice idea.
 
Matthew said:
I actually took this class myself. I can't remember what it cost back then, but the materials required were:

Plotter
Jepp cardboard E6-B
Jepp private pilot knowlege test guide

All were available in the bookstore.

The Jepp textbook was NOT required so it was not available in the bookstore, but the instructor did take orders on the first day of class and we all ordered one at her discount. There was some technical reason that the book was not required, it had something to do with the college internal policies.

It sounds like I used the same materials your class is using. And we also had the ginormous E6-B in the classroom. Sectionals were handed out when necessary - I think they were the CFI's pile of expired sectionals or some that she'd gotten from an FBO after they expired.

We had about 12 people in the class. It became obvious after the first couple of classes which students were catching on and which weren't. We ended up getting paired together and helping each other out when we were working on w&b or navigation problems. Turning on the speakerphone helped a lot when getting ASOS reports and FSS briefings for our 'practice' flights. We, the students, didn't actually talk with FSS to get a briefing, but the CFI did.

If you have a good drive and aptitude for teaching, a group ground-school seems like a pretty nice idea.
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I always wanted to be a teacher but it seemed the pay was poor so I ended up in the corporate world. (That doesn't mean I would be a good one though)
 
kimberlyanne546 said:
I always wanted to be a teacher but it seemed the pay was poor so I ended up in the corporate world.
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I wanted to be rich but work was always getting in the way.

--

I still remember the first class - the CFI was trying to get us all to introduce ourselves and how we got into wanting to fly. One guy said, "I've wanted to fly since I was a kid". Well, I don't think he was even 16 yet, so he hadn't been wanting to fly very long. There was an 80yo woman in the class, too. She had taken the class before, but stopped in for a refresher on a couple of the topics. So we had a wide range - it was fun, and I still run into some of those folks now and then.

I think it mibht be tough to get started as an instructor in a community college, though. A lot of the CFI's that teach those classes end up with those students taking their flight lessons from them, too. So I think the CFI's really like to hang onto that slot.
 
Matthew said:
I wanted to be rich but work was always getting in the way.

--

I still remember the first class - the CFI was trying to get us all to introduce ourselves and how we got into wanting to fly. One guy said, "I've wanted to fly since I was a kid". Well, I don't think he was even 16 yet, so he hadn't been wanting to fly very long. There was an 80yo woman in the class, too. She had taken the class before, but stopped in for a refresher on a couple of the topics. So we had a wide range - it was fun, and I still run into some of those folks now and then.

I think it mibht be tough to get started as an instructor in a community college, though. A lot of the CFI's that teach those classes end up with those students taking their flight lessons from them, too. So I think the CFI's really like to hang onto that slot.
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Thanks for the feedback, but, without going into details on a public forum since I haven't made any agreements with anyone yet - and what I'm talking about may be years from now - NO - it does not involve the college itself. I don't have a degree or teaching credentials.
 
I was joking with my CFI about getting ground instructor certified, since he kept asking me to do oral and written prep with his students while I was sitting around at the airport. He keeps looking at me seriously and saying "really, go do that."

I haven't even looked into what it will take.
 
Let's just say I heard about an opportunity that may or may not become reality and I would probably be considered for the opening and leave it at that. Whether or not I make any money, I don't care. I just love aviation.
 
ChrisK said:
I was joking with my CFI about getting ground instructor certified, since he kept asking me to do oral and written prep with his students while I was sitting around at the airport. He keeps looking at me seriously and saying "really, go do that."

I haven't even looked into what it will take.
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Here is the only thing I know, since I haven't looked into it (Thanks Tim):

Ground instructor:

You take the tests and go to the FSDO and get the certificate.

The tests are:

Fundamentals of Instruction

Basic Ground Instructor (Commercial pilot knowledge of airplanes)

Instrument Ground Instructor (instrument pilot knowledge)

Advanced Ground Instructor (Commercial pilot knowledge of airplanes).


What most folks do is take the FOI, the AGI, and the IGI. That qualifies you to give any sort of ground instruction.
 
ChrisK said:
Assume that BGI was "private" rather than "commercial"?
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That was written by Tim, long ago (copied and pasted). I'm sure some other CFI can help us with your question.

Like I said, I feel the best way to "be good at something" is to take the role of a student, see how it is currently being done by the "experts" and then go for there. This instructor has been doing this class for MANY years and I hope to learn a lot about teaching etc..... plus I will have fun.
 
I;m not sure what degree or teaching credentials would be required at the college, other than the ground instructor certificate. But it sounds like you have some options open to you.

The nice thing about the Jepp textbook is that it pretty much contains the AFH, and adds more to it like exercises and other test-prep. The test guide is the companion to it. The plotter and e6-b are necessary but you don't need the rotating plotter or metal e6-b. Just keep it simple - there will be some students who drop out and others who just don't want to spend the extra cash on a nicer flight computer (wait until they get the sticker shock when flying lessons actually start.)
 
Matthew said:
I;m not sure what degree or teaching credentials would be required at the college, other than the ground instructor certificate. But it sounds like you have some options open to you.

The nice thing about the Jepp textbook is that it pretty much contains the AFH, and adds more to it like exercises and other test-prep. The test guide is the companion to it. The plotter and e6-b are necessary but you don't need the rotating plotter or metal e6-b. Just keep it simple - there will be some students who drop out and others who just don't want to spend the extra cash on a nicer flight computer (wait until they get the sticker shock when flying lessons actually start.)
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Well, the cool thing is the instructor has a plane that is also on lease back to a flight school within California. So there are some tie-ins there. I think there might be a "field trip" to an airport and I heard one or two classes will be taught by / visited by "guest speakers" such as CFI's or IA's etc. Pretty neat actually.
 
kimberlyanne546 said:
Good to know. Here is the list of materials sent to the students:

Text & Tools:

1. Jeppesen Guided Flight Discovery Private Pilot textbook (2007 edition or later.) Used editions can be found online at a reduced price.

2. Jeppesen Private Pilot FAA Airmen Knowledge Test Guide, latest edition.

3. Jeppesen Student Flight Computer (CSG) JS514101

4. ASA Rotating plotter and Jeppesen E6B Flight Computer.


Note: A web search for the above items will produce a number of online Pilot Supply stores.


A different brand of flight computer (not electronic) and plotter may be used if you already own these items.



Materials:

1. a pencil with eraser

2. calculator

3. red felt tipped pen

4. note paper

5. sectional chart (will be provided)
Click to expand...

Incredibly boring book.
 
Way back in the day when I was in engineering school, I never bought the text until I saw if the instructor/professor actually used the d*** thing. IIRC, about 25% of the time I never needed it. A few times they made a problem assignment out of the text I didn't have so I just borrowed a classmate's book and copied the problem out of the book to work on it. :yesnod:

Same thing at the Instrument ground school at the local CC. I found I could use the free versions on the FAA books on line for most of the info and never did buy the Jepp book listed as a text. They also listed a book of approach plates as a text but I just used my ForeFlight charts. Since half of the course was using the SIMS in the lab, I got all I needed to pass the stage tests in the course even though I was just auditing. :D

Textbooks are one of the last legal extortion schemes. :rolleyes:

BTW, the CFII who taught the course said if you passed the Instrument Knowledge Test you could be authorized as an Instrument Ground Instructor but I have no clue if that was true or not.

Cheers
 
X3 Skier said:
Way back in the day when I was in engineering school, I never bought the text until I saw if the instructor/professor actually used the d*** thing. IIRC, about 25% of the time I never needed it. A few times they made a problem assignment out of the text I didn't have so I just borrowed a classmate's book and copied the problem out of the book to work on it. :yesnod:

Same thing at the Instrument ground school at the local CC. I found I could use the free versions on the FAA books on line for most of the info and never did buy the Jepp book listed as a text. They also listed a book of approach plates as a text but I just used my ForeFlight charts. Since half of the course was using the SIMS in the lab, I got all I needed to pass the stage tests in the course even though I was just auditing. :D

Textbooks are one of the last legal extortion schemes. :rolleyes:

BTW, the CFII who taught the course said if you passed the Instrument Knowledge Test you could be authorized as an Instrument Ground Instructor but I have no clue if that was true or not.

Cheers
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Thanks but only being on 2 instrument training flights (as a safety pilot) and mostly just looking out the window - and - flying in some airplanes that aren't even IFR equipped - I don't think I'd be interested in teaching instrument school.
 
kimberlyanne546 said:
Thanks but only being on 2 instrument training flights (as a safety pilot) and mostly just looking out the window - and - flying in some airplanes that aren't even IFR equipped - I don't think I'd be interested in teaching instrument school.
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A lot of the material to be slogged through is really pretty boring, but important to know (and more importantly to retain) no matter whose book you instruct from. I don't think it really makes much difference whether you use the old FAA "Pilots Handbook of Aeronautical Knowledge", or the equivalent from ASA, Gleim or Jepp. Being able to interject practical applications of the dry subject material, anecdotes, etc. to keep the class engaged would be more important, IMO.

Anyone can suffer through the King videos and learn mnemonics. You seem really enthusiastic and could do better that that, I'd think.
 
kimberlyanne546 said:
Thanks but only being on 2 instrument training flights (as a safety pilot) and mostly just looking out the window - and - flying in some airplanes that aren't even IFR equipped - I don't think I'd be interested in teaching instrument school.
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If you do want to get the rating the best way to really learn a subject is to teach it.
 
Kudos to you for recognizing that aviation knowledge is a perishable commodity. And I'm sure you'll enjoy hanging out with other airplane people during the class.
 
EppyGA said:
If you do want to get the rating the best way to really learn a subject is to teach it.
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I have found this to be absolutely correct in many things I've done over the years.
 
Rigged4Flight said:
I have found this to be absolutely correct in many things I've done over the years.
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So have I. And it REALLY gets good if you have an exceptional student who (legitimately) questions all your assumptions. Been there a few times.

Now, I get a real challenge explaining all this stuff to my 7 year old.
 
MAKG1 said:
So have I. And it REALLY gets good if you have an exceptional student who (legitimately) questions all your assumptions. Been there a few times.

Now, I get a real challenge explaining all this stuff to my 7 year old.
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Makes me wonder how old the people in the class will be. Since it is not the college (it is but this is community ed) I wonder what the "bottom" limit will be.

I leave today at 5pm to drive to the class. I went overboard to bring what I own since I still want to help the teacher, I'll see if she needs any of it to show the class the stuff they will need when they start flying.
 
The class I was in had a 16yo (maybe 17), and the oldest might have been 60's. As I mentioned in an earlier post, an 80yo did stop in a couple times for a refresher just prior to her checkride. Most in the class were late 30's to early 40's.

CFIs can chime in here - but it seems to me that the younger folks like to either learn on-line or don't have the patience for a structured class like this. So you pretty much might end up seeing the age group like my class.
 
Geezer is right here- if there was ever a book on a booklist written by the instructor - you knew you did not have to buy unless you wanted to brown nose the guy.

These days everything is available online for 1/3 the price of the book
 
I did my ground lessons at a community college using this same text. In fact, it's the college I work at. The instruction is actually contracted out to a local flight school that provides this service for a number of local community colleges, always(?) as continuing education courses. I have my AGI and IGI, and wouldn't mind teaching this. In fact, that's one of the reasons I got started teaching in the Continuing Education department here; to get some experience actually teaching.

We had about a half dozen people in the class, including Leslie and me. She already had a copy of the Jeppesen text from when she'd started a couple of years earlier, so we didn't need to purchase a new copy.

We'll typically cancel our classes if we don't have at least three people register.
 
kimberlyanne546 said:
Good to know. Here is the list of materials sent to the students:

Text & Tools:

1. Jeppesen Guided Flight Discovery Private Pilot textbook (2007 edition or later.) Used editions can be found online at a reduced price.
Click to expand...
Kimberly, if this course isn't for credit, there's no need to get the same books as the instructor. Everything teaches the same stuff. The Jepp books are pretty with fancy colors and weigh a ton.
2. Jeppesen Private Pilot FAA Airmen Knowledge Test Guide, latest edition.
Click to expand...
Entirely online at the FAA website. Jepp reprints it and puts a matching cover on it.
3. Jeppesen Student Flight Computer (CSG) JS514101

4. ASA Rotating plotter and Jeppesen E6B Flight Computer.
Click to expand...
You already have all of these. The rotating plotter is not bad to have, but you can order it online.
 
murphey said:
Kimberly, if this course isn't for credit, there's no need to get the same books as the instructor. Everything teaches the same stuff. The Jepp books are pretty with fancy colors and weigh a ton.

Entirely online at the FAA website. Jepp reprints it and puts a matching cover on it.

You already have all of these. The rotating plotter is not bad to have, but you can order it online.
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Thank you. A very nice POA member has sent me a private message to "borrow" their fancy Jepp textbook. My flight school has them for $85 (in stock). I found them used for $50 online. What I will probably do, if tonight goes well and I stay in the class and there are no issues, is borrow the book for a few weeks until after the Reno Air Races. Then, when I have money again, I'll buy my own copy. Doesn't seem like a bad thing to own, though I do own all of the books listed in the PTS and then some (mostly FAA books, but I have some others).
 
kimberlyanne546 said:
Thank you. A very nice POA member has sent me a private message to "borrow" their fancy Jepp textbook. My flight school has them for $85 (in stock). I found them used for $50 online. What I will probably do, if tonight goes well and I stay in the class and there are no issues, is borrow the book for a few weeks until after the Reno Air Races. Then, when I have money again, I'll buy my own copy. Doesn't seem like a bad thing to own, though I do own all of the books listed in the PTS and then some (mostly FAA books, but I have some others).
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Having worked for Jepp in the past, and getting all the books half-price, after I used them, I gave them to people who needed them. When I teach, it's not from Jepp - I would never ask someone to spend that much money!

When you get around to being a ground instructor, the material will have changed slightly/considerably, so it's really not that important to buy the current one. Afterall, Gleim changes frequently, Jepp not so often.
 
I wonder why ground school instructors don't just give their students links to free online sources of the material they will be instructing from. :dunno:

I took a ground school class in 2004 that I think we ended up actually actively going over only a few pages out of the required books.
 
Well, I find that an engaged class can really enhance the learning experience for all the students (not to mention the instructor)! OTOH, if they all sit there like lumps on a log, they may as well be doing a webinar.
 
If they all sit there, you may as well be reading a book. It will be MUCH faster than a webinar. Those take bloody forever just to make basic points.
 
Rigged4Flight said:
I wonder why ground school instructors don't just give their students links to free online sources of the material they will be instructing from. :dunno:

I took a ground school class in 2004 that I think we ended up actually actively going over only a few pages out of the required books.
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She collected all our emails and said she would send us links to free resources.
 
gprellwitz said:
Well, I find that an engaged class can really enhance the learning experience for all the students (not to mention the instructor)! OTOH, if they all sit there like lumps on a log, they may as well be doing a webinar.
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It was very lively. That was good. Otherwise, if she just showed the videos (I don't know if they are Jepp?), and told us to read the chapters, and did quizzes, that would be boring.

This was not like that. She had a "co-instructor" a CFI from a flight school and he would add real life examples to what she was teaching.

They had a large turnout (about 20-30 people) and they asked each person their name and flight experience.

Pilots (3):

Me
A woman who had flown but then had kids, etc and had not flown in a long time, wanted to get back in the game but had forgotten everything
A man who pointed to his brain and said "there is a lot of rust up there". Not sure if he owns a plane or how long he has been a pilot.

Non Pilots (the rest):

One guy almost at checkride, doing this as prep for the oral.

One girl training slowly since 2011

Most others just started and pre-solo (but at least 1 flight hour logged)


Ages: several young (teens / twenties), but also 30's and 40's and even beyond.
 
I saw you fix that typo. Haha.

(Tapatalk cached the original and then it switched when quoted.)

"One gay training slowly since 2011", was funnier. ;)
 
denverpilot said:
I saw you fix that typo. Haha.

(Tapatalk cached the original and then it switched when quoted.)

"One gay training slowly since 2011", was funnier. ;)
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It was "gal" but I think that makes me sound old.

so the "l" became a "y" and then I hit submit. I usually pre-read my posts but didn't.

I got caught with a typo, oh no!
 
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