Previous Criminal charges - beginning stages of flying lessons

[whoisyou]

Hello,

Hoping to start the process to get my Pilot certification in the coming months. I have a medical exam scheduled for the week after next. While it isn't necessarily a medical issue, I did have some run-ins with law enforcement when I was 18 (now 28). I was charged with multiple felonies related to marijuana, maintaining a dwelling, possession w/ intent, manufacturing, and others related to that. All of those were plead down to 4 misdemeanor counts with 18 months probation. Not long after that, I was charged with possession of alcohol while under 21, i did all community service requirements with this.

A few years later I got all of these expunged from my record. Haven't had any legal issues since that.

My concern is whether it will even be possible for me to obtain my certification, let alone successfully complete my medical. Could easily pass any drug screenings as I don't do that stuff anymore. I am working on scheduling a consultation with my AME prior to my exam to see if he has any insight as well. I appreciate any input if someone has a similar experience.

Thank you

 

[Daleandee]

I ain't no doc but I believe if you're gonna fly you'll do so as a sport pilot. It's actually a pretty good deal and rumor has it that the privileges for us Sport Pilots are about to get even better.

BTW, expungement means nothing to the FAA ...

 

[Mikey52]

I ain't no doc but I believe if you're gonna fly you'll do so as a sport pilot. It's actually a pretty good deal and rumor has it that the privileges for us Sport Pilots are about to get even better.

BTW, expungement means nothing to the FAA ...

How long ago was it?

 

[Half Fast]

I advise against taking advice from some random guy on the internet (like me). With that said, it seems to me there are three items on the medical form that will concern you, items 18 n, o, and v.

The first part of item (n) applies to your entire life, so as part of all this did you fail a drug test or were you otherwise busted for use, or just for manufacture and sale? I imagine that the FAA will infer you were also a user unless you can demonstrate otherwise. From your post, it appears that your problems were 10 years ago, and the second part of item (n) has a two year time limit so that half shouldn't be a concern.

Item (o) has no such time limit, so I suppose the question will be whether your underage possession of alcohol is "abuse." The FAA might infer it is; nobody thinks an underage kid only drinks "socially" or just has a glass of wine with dinner.

That leaves 18(v). You didn't mention any DUI or driver's license problems, so 18(v)(1) would seem to be clear. I think 18(v)(2) would only be a concern if "community service" is considered a "rehabilitation program." I kinda doubt it but the FAA sometimes has odd interpretations.

You're in a tough spot if you want an FAA medical. With your history, the FAA won't be inclined to cut you any slack, and will likely interpret everything in the worst possible light. When you say,

Could easily pass any drug screenings as I don't do that stuff anymore.

that's great, but can you prove it? You may have to do several years of random drug screens.

It's not impossible, but I wouldn't do a medical exam immediately. Doing a consultation, not an examination, as you plan is an excellent idea. If you do the exam and get denied, you'll be unable to fly as a Sport Pilot. Do the consultation first and see what it would take to get the medical. Even if he says it's doable, it may be more time and expense than you want, in which case you can stick with Sport Pilot.

Sport Pilot is actually a pretty nice option and doesn't have all the medical baggage; you just have to have a driver's license. You'll be limited to one passenger and daytime VFR flying, but you'll be able to fly some decent airplanes and you can fly anywhere in the US and the Bahamas.

The POA medical staff should be along momentarily to give you some advice. @WingmanMed @bbchien @lbfjrmd

 

[Daleandee]

How long ago was it?

You would have to ask the OP ...

 

[bbchien]

Two years of random urines to satisfy 61.307.
Two years of two per week NA logged
Work the 12 Steps
Be able to satisfy HIMS AME and HIMS psychiatrist as to genuine work and investment in Recovery, not just abstinence….

 

[whoisyou]

How long ago was it?

Over 10 years ago now. No issues since.

Two years of random urines to satisfy 61.307.
Two years of two per week NA logged
Work the 12 Steps
Be able to satisfy HIMS AME and HIMS psychiatrist as to genuine work and investment in Recovery, not just abstinence….

Wouldn't the HIMS AME & psychiatrist be able to sniff out someone who didnt have substance abuse issues? Seems insane to require that level of commitment to NA if its not necessary for that specific person. If they still require it, do those NA meetings need to be logged prior to beggining or can they happen simultaneously?

Any chance getting a lawyer with FAA knowledge could help work around some of this? Probably hear this all the time but i dont personally beleive i have any addiction/substance abuse issues. Just being a stupid kid at the time.

Seems like this may be an issue i can only resolve with deep pockets or by sticking it out with NA? Or just going sport pilot direction.


Thank you all for your input so far.

 

[PaulS]

Over 10 years ago now. No issues since.


Wouldn't the HIMS AME & psychiatrist be able to sniff out someone who didnt have substance abuse issues? Seems insane to require that level of commitment to NA if its not necessary for that specific person. If they still require it, do those NA meetings need to be logged prior to beggining or can they happen simultaneously?

Any chance getting a lawyer with FAA knowledge could help work around some of this? Probably hear this all the time but i dont personally beleive i have any addiction/substance abuse issues. Just being a stupid kid at the time.

Seems like this may be an issue i can only resolve with deep pockets or by sticking it out with NA? Or just going sport pilot direction.


Thank you all for your input so far.

Ya messed up, hopefully you've moved on from the stupidity. FAA wants to know you have moved on, that you are sober, recovered and that you can prove it. You need to do the work now as Dr Chien has outlined if you want a medical. Here's a hint for dealing with this, you've had several addiction/substance abuse issues and they caused your run-ins with the law and convictions, you are in denial, that will stop your quest for a medical dead in it's tracks. You have to decide, either put in the effort, or go sport. Either way, if you relapse after becoming a pilot, do us all a favor and stop flying until you straighten yourself out again. It's all up to you, the system is designed to weed out those in denial.

 

[Half Fast]

Probably hear this all the time but i dont personally beleive i have any addiction/substance abuse issues.

Your personal belief is not sufficient.

Please understand that the FAA’s purpose is not to find some way to let you fly; it’s to promote safety and protect the public. The FAA is disinclined to let people with a history of substance abuse into the cockpit unless there is overwhelming proof that the problem no longer exists.

You can (probably) get there, but it will take lots of time and money.

Just being a stupid kid at the time.

Even decisions by stupid kids can have long term consequences.

 

[Palmpilot]

Ya messed up, hopefully you've moved on from the stupidity. FAA wants to know you have moved on, that you are sober, recovered and that you can prove it. You need to do the work now as Dr Chien has outlined if you want a medical. Here's a hint for dealing with this, you've had several addiction/substance abuse issues and they caused your run-ins with the law and convictions, you are in denial, that will stop your quest for a medical dead in it's tracks. You have to decide, either put in the effort, or go sport. Either way, if you relapse after becoming a pilot, do us all a favor and stop flying until you straighten yourself out again. It's all up to you, the system is designed to weed out those in denial.

"You are in denial" appears to be an assumption on your part. Maybe he is, maybe he isn't; I don't think we're in a position to know that.

 

[PaulS]

"You are in denial" appears to be an assumption on your part. Maybe he is, maybe he isn't; I don't think we're in a position to know that.

Read the line I highlighted in red, looks like denial to me. This was more than youthful hijinks.

 

[WingmanMed]

At this point it doesn't matter if the OP was a legit addict or not, they will treat him as one. As Dr. Chien pointed out, this will require going through the HIMS process.

 

[midlifeflyer]

...and remember that we live in a zero tolerance environment.

 

[PaulS]

At this point it doesn't matter if the OP was a legit addict or not, they will treat him as one. As Dr. Chien pointed out, this will require going through the HIMS process.

That's the point I was trying to make for the OP. Saying you don't view yourself as having a problem is most likely not what the people working on behalf of the FAA, making decisions, want to hear. Unfortunately, the OP wants to play on the FAA's playground, so he needs to follow the FAA rules. Best to understand what is required up front and avoid blunders.

 

[Dana]

If he only dealt with the court system and was never diagnosed with abuse or dependence by a medical professional, and never failed a drug test along the way, then he can honestly answer "no" to 18(n) and (o) and the subject will never come up on the FAA's radar.

I have no idea what the OP was doing, but lots of kids, like one of my college roomates, would buy a bigger bag of weed than they needed at a discount, keep a little for their own use, and sell the rest to their friends. Sometimes they sold it to the wrong person and got busted, as did my roomate (before I met him). It wasn't "Breaking Bad", and the fact that the felonies were reduced to a few misdemeanor charges with probation would seem to indicate that the court recognized that.

 

[Sinistar]

Hello,

Hoping to start the process to get my Pilot certification in the coming months. I have a medical exam scheduled for the week after next. While it isn't necessarily a medical issue, I did have some run-ins with law enforcement when I was 18 (now 28). I was charged with multiple felonies related to marijuana, maintaining a dwelling, possession w/ intent, manufacturing, and others related to that. All of those were plead down to 4 misdemeanor counts with 18 months probation. Not long after that, I was charged with possession of alcohol while under 21, i did all community service requirements with this.

A few years later I got all of these expunged from my record. Haven't had any legal issues since that.

My concern is whether it will even be possible for me to obtain my certification, let alone successfully complete my medical. Could easily pass any drug screenings as I don't do that stuff anymore. I am working on scheduling a consultation with my AME prior to my exam to see if he has any insight as well. I appreciate any input if someone has a similar experience.

Thank you

Its good you are reading @bbchien's response! He is giving you the 1 and only path to a possible medical and thereby pilots license. Swallow your pride. Be the opposite of most and accept that what happened is still with you even though lots of time has past. Expungement means nothing when it comes to the Federal Govt. They can still see it. Its not gone. Its just hidden from employer's and judges or something like that. Its possible Dr Bruce may not respond again - because he is busy or has at least pointed you in the proper direction. From what he writes I am pretty the (4) items he listed are direction, require effort and being proactive. And a minimum of what you will need to overcome. Often people ask and when they get this list of requirements they (naturally) try and find ways around them, hope time makes them irrelevant - unfortunately it doesn't work that way. Its a bummer. Sure wish it hadn't happened. Hopefully one day you will be telling your aviation medical journey if its meant to be!

 

[Palmpilot]

Read the line I highlighted in red, looks like denial to me. This was more than youthful hijinks.

At this time we have no evidence that he has engaged in substance abuse in the past seven years. Maybe he has, and maybe he hasn't; we just don't know.

 

[Palmpilot]

That's the point I was trying to make for the OP. Saying you don't view yourself as having a problem is most likely not what the people working on behalf of the FAA, making decisions, want to hear. Unfortunately, the OP wants to play on the FAA's playground, so he needs to follow the FAA rules. Best to understand what is required up front and avoid blunders.

I think what the FAA people "want to hear" is verifiable evidence of sobriety. Other than that, I agree with the above.