Presidential TFR bust

Meliss

Meliss

Pre-takeoff checklist
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San Diego, CA
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goodjoojoo
Yesterday in the LA basin, Obama was in town. The TFR was around LA for the majority of his stay, but there was about an hour long TFR around Pomona. I was flying home from Vegas and aware of the TFR - the airport I was flying to was under the outer ring. I filed IFR out of KLAS to head to KSNA. As I was over San Bernardino, I had an interesting encounter. The controller asked me if I had time to do him a favor - he then proceeded to have me call the Corona CTAF and tell the pilot in the vicinity to contact the approach control on x frequency and to land immediately. I switched over and transmitted that, while also listening to another person telling him that he had busted the presidential TFR and to land IMMEDIATELY. [she was VERY stern - another male voice went on and said the same.] As I continued to fly the controller began vectoring me for traffic which happened to be two F-16's circling right next to me over Corona airport.

I don't know how the story ended up for the pilot of the airplane - but I can't imagine he had a good time when he got on the ground. Does anyone know what kind of repercussions he's looking at? It was the outer ring he busted, btw.
 
From what I've read, probably a thoroughly unpleasant chat with some men in dark suits and sunglasses followed by a suspension of flying privileges..
 
An interview with local law enforcement,followed by an extensive interview from those guys in dark suits and sunglasses. Not a pleasant experience.
 
I still think it is so unfortunate that we have lowered ourselves to this. Sad.
 
somorris said:
I still think it is so unfortunate that we have lowered ourselves to this. Sad.
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In the other thread, our fellow pilots are actually arguing that this is a really good and necessary idea. I just don't get it.:no:
 
The whole TFR thing for MaObama is stupid.

My taxpayer dollars should be better spent.

I shouldn't be restricted in my flying just because that moron wants to fun raise or vacation on my dime.
 
No kidding. Obviously the President merits more security than your average citizen but when it gets to the point where they practically shut down a city for his security it's become excessive.

All that security for the politicians these days... almost as if they have reason to be afraid of something.
 
James331 said:
The whole TFR thing for MaObama is stupid.

My taxpayer dollars should be better spent.

I shouldn't be restricted in my flying just because that moron wants to fun raise or vacation on my dime.
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For the record, I will say the same thing in 2016 when we switch parties in the White House.
 
I don't like Obama either. But please don't pretend it has anything to do with Obama. It has to do with the president. And the TFR does not care if you're a democrat or republican. The TFRs followed Bush too. And will follow whoever replaces Obama. Making this an Obama issue negates any realistic complaint you have against him.
 
Bipartanship at its finest. Screw the people no matter which side is driving.
 
TFRs are no fun, and annoying, and all the security around a president is amazingly expensive.

But do you know how long a president - any president - would last without it?

Probably not even a day.

Yes, we do have secession plans, but whoever is next in line wouldn't last long either.

Pretty soon we would have anarchy.

Is that what you want?
 
RalphInCA said:
TFRs are no fun, and annoying, and all the security around a president is amazingly expensive.

But do you know how long a president - any president - would last without it?

Probably not even a day.

Yes, we do have secession plans, but whoever is next in line wouldn't last long either.

Pretty soon we would have anarchy.

Is that what you want?
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I never suspected the airborne threat was that great? Where would this threat come from??
 
Politicians a little bit afraid for their lives might do a better job representing the people.:lol:
Presidents are replaceable, they really aren't that important. Although I'd hate to see this one offed the martyr he'd be for the destruction of any remaining freedoms would be nutso.
RalphInCA said:
TFRs are no fun, and annoying, and all the security around a president is amazingly expensive.

But do you know how long a president - any president - would last without it?

Probably not even a day.

Yes, we do have secession plans, but whoever is next in line wouldn't last long either.

Pretty soon we would have anarchy.

Is that what you want?
Click to expand...
 
TFRs serve absolutely NO useful security purpose. They are a feel good placebo at best and at worst, political snake oil.
 
ClimbnSink said:
Politicians a little bit afraid for their lives might do a better job representing the people.:lol:
Presidents are replaceable, they really aren't that important. Although I'd hate to see this one offed the martyr he'd be for the destruction of any remaining freedoms would be nutso.
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Now thats the truth.
 
RalphInCA said:
TFRs are no fun, and annoying, and all the security around a president is amazingly expensive.

But do you know how long a president - any president - would last without it?

Probably not even a day.

Yes, we do have secession plans, but whoever is next in line wouldn't last long either.

Pretty soon we would have anarchy.

Is that what you want?
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Pretty sure this is sarcasm yet everyone is taking it seriously....
 
When we have a president dead set on convincing everyone that WE don't needs guns to protect us, and shouldn't be allowed to own them, I don't feel ANY sympathy towards having billions of tax dollars wasted paying people with guns to protect him.
 
cowman said:
Pretty sure this is sarcasm yet everyone is taking it seriously....
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Pretty sure he's serious about it with a little hyperbole thrown in since we were just talking about TFRs
 
Have you ever read how many death threats our presidents get? Thousands. And that's just the threats. There are many more that never become threats, but are contiplated.

Some of the people these threats come from are pretty smart and sophisticated.

A lot of people want our presidents - republican, or democrat - dead.

Do we really want our presidents to be killed off by our enemy's - foreign or domestic?

And I do realize that TFRs are minimally effective. But do we really want the airspace above our presidents - again republican or democrat - to be free fly airspace?
 
If the people making threats were smart or sophisticated they wouldn't be making threats.:lol: You really believe all the happy kingdom stuff?
RalphInCA said:
Have you ever read how many death threats our presidents get? Thousands. And that's just the threats. There are many more that never become threats, but are contiplated.

Some of the people these threats come from are pretty smart and sophisticated.

A lot of people want our presidents - republican, or democrat - dead.

Do we really want our presidents to be killed off by our enemy's - foreign or domestic?

And I do realize that TFRs are minimally effective. But do we really want the airspace above our presidents - again republican or democrat - to be free fly airspace?
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Meliss said:
. Does anyone know what kind of repercussions he's looking at? It was the outer ring he busted, btw.
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In a thread two years ago, Ron Levy said that 30-60 day suspensions were common, but it can be worse. Nobody contradicted him, so either his info was good, or nobody knows.
 
RalphInCA said:
And I do realize that TFRs are minimally effective. But do we really want the airspace above our presidents - again republican or democrat - to be free fly airspace?
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Sounds like a gun control argument: "Generally ineffective, yes, but if it saves just one president, isn't it worth it?"

Tim
 
RalphInCA said:
Have you ever read how many death threats our presidents get? Thousands. And that's just the threats. There are many more that never become threats, but are contiplated.

Some of the people these threats come from are pretty smart and sophisticated.

A lot of people want our presidents - republican, or democrat - dead.

Do we really want our presidents to be killed off by our enemy's - foreign or domestic?

And I do realize that TFRs are minimally effective. But do we really want the airspace above our presidents - again republican or democrat - to be free fly airspace?
Click to expand...

If they are that smart and sophisticated, and dangerous, does it really hinder them to let them knows days in advance when AF1 is coming or going? Even if I were to agree that maybe the TFR is a good thing, but does it really need to be 30 miles across. Up here in NY when he comes it covers the entire Class B for JFK, EWR, LGA, that's a whole lot of airspace.
 
retailguy said:
For the record, I will say the same thing in 2016 when we switch parties in the White House.
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Just as I said during the entirety of President Bush's (43) presidnecy, and the irritation of P49. Of course, P49 was an irritant, but one we could work with; when the President came to Dallas, it crippled our airspace and closed Addison completely. Ridiculous, and meaningless for security.

RalphInCA said:
TFRs are no fun, and annoying, and all the security around a president is amazingly expensive.

But do you know how long a president - any president - would last without it?

Probably not even a day.

Yes, we do have secession plans, but whoever is next in line wouldn't last long either.

Pretty soon we would have anarchy.

Is that what you want?
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You surely must be joking...

RalphInCA said:
Have you ever read how many death threats our presidents get? Thousands. And that's just the threats. There are many more that never become threats, but are contiplated.

Some of the people these threats come from are pretty smart and sophisticated.

A lot of people want our presidents - republican, or democrat - dead.

Do we really want our presidents to be killed off by our enemy's - foreign or domestic?

And I do realize that TFRs are minimally effective. But do we really want the airspace above our presidents - again republican or democrat - to be free fly airspace?
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Oh dear me - I think you are serious!

These crafty terror-mongers can find (and have found) much more effective (and stealthy) means of harming people than a 2500 lb airplane.

TommyG said:
If they are that smart and sophisticated, and dangerous, does it really hinder them to let them knows days in advance when AF1 is coming or going? Even if I were to agree that maybe the TFR is a good thing, but does it really need to be 30 miles across. Up here in NY when he comes it covers the entire Class B for JFK, EWR, LGA, that's a whole lot of airspace.
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Somehow, the people whose living depends upon general aviation don't have a say in this...
 
RalphInCA said:
TFRs are no fun, and annoying, and all the security around a president is amazingly expensive.

But do you know how long a president - any president - would last without it?

Probably not even a day.

Yes, we do have secession plans, but whoever is next in line wouldn't last long either.

Pretty soon we would have anarchy.

Is that what you want?
Click to expand...

Just because you sound sincere in your speculation doesn't make it true. I know you believe it, but, lot's of folks sincerely believe things that are not true.

Ralph, I believe the TFR is designed to make folks like you "feel" safe. I don't believe it actually makes anyone, including the President safe. Am I right? Who knows, for all I know I could have been one of the guys who believed the world was flat.

But, the next time you dutifully take your shoes off at the airport believing you are making the world safer, just know that there is one guy behind you (me) who really wants to take that shoe and throw it at the idiot in the blue uniform because it's so senseless I can't stand it.
 
The actual danger, while real, is overstated. The vast majority of those death threats against the president are just some harmless nut lacking in either will or ability to actually do anything- if they even intended to in the first place. As evidenced by the relatively small number of actual attempts.

Light aircraft? A real threat? Sure I suppose one could somehow manufacture some guns or bombs or missiles or something to drop off their 172. Although the very notion is so ridiculous it almost makes me giggle. A rooftop/window and a conventional rifle would seem to be easier and have a higher chance of success.

And as for the consequences... aside from being really bummed out would it really be that big of a deal. As was stated by others, we have a clear succession system. People will watch TV and prattle on about it but really we will just go on with our lives, it will change little. The worst possible fallout is more violations of people's civil liberties in the name of security.

Take a look at what other western nations do. How many of them have this kind of security... TFRs or otherwise? Why do we need all this? We shouldn't have all of this.
 
cowman said:
Light aircraft? A real threat? Sure I suppose one could somehow manufacture some guns or bombs or missiles or something to drop off their 172. Although the very notion is so ridiculous it almost makes me giggle. A rooftop/window and a conventional rifle would seem to be easier and have a higher chance of success.
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A tractor trailer full of explosive would be a much more credible threat. Small plane? Not much.
 
I'm glad I live in a place no one cares about.
 
I get the reason why the feeling a TFR will help "protect". What I have a hard time understanding is the VP TFR over Biden's home. Don't you think this just makes it easier to find?

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Makes me wonder if that Cessna had not responded last week, would they have shot it down over the middle of Los Angeles ??

Can you imagine the fall out from that event because of the likely loss of life on the ground ?
 
Getting back to OP's question, after the chat with the sunglasses/dark suit crowd, expect some fairly detailed specs for remedial training. We just had a renter clip delta airspace and we got a two page list detailing the remedial training they expected. It took close to three hours of ground and a couple hours in the air with the owner of the flight school to check off all the items. Neither of us had seen that level of specificity in a 709 before.
 
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