President of Poland Killed in Plane Crash

Interesting that they allowed that many prominent leaders to travel together. I suspect the ruling on that will change moving forward. Sad indeed.
 
Apparently several other top governmental and civilan leaders were on board and killed as well. This is a huge tradgedy for Poland. I was wondering what type of plane it was. Reports said a Soviet eara Tupelov. I would think that the president of Poland might at least had modern plane. Something about Russian planes gives me the jitters.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/36352097/ns/world_news-europe?GT1=39002
 
kevin47881 said:
Interesting that they allowed that many prominent leaders to travel together. I suspect the ruling on that will change moving forward. Sad indeed.
Click to expand...

Didn't IBM change its policy on executives traveling together back in the '80s when it lost the upper management of an entire division? My memory is murky ....
 
Wow. Huge mistake to take nearly all the leadership OF A COUNTRY (we're not talking just a company here) and put them on one airplane....
 
What I heard on the radio was three or four approach attempts and refusal to fly to alternate at Minsk before the crash.
 
AdamZ said:
Apparently several other top governmental and civilan leaders were on board and killed as well. This is a huge tradgedy for Poland. I was wondering what type of plane it was. Reports said a Soviet eara Tupelov. I would think that the president of Poland might at least had modern plane. Something about Russian planes gives me the jitters.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/36352097/ns/world_news-europe?GT1=39002
Click to expand...

Ron- is it possible that it had nothing to do with who manufactured the plane?

RMCN172RG said:
What I heard on the radio was three or four approach attempts and refusal to fly to alternate at Minsk before the crash.
Click to expand...
I read the same thing on AP this morning. Perhaps a more modern plane might have had more modern avionics that may have more appropriate for the approach and thus avoided the crash, but we also don't know if such avionics were retrofitted to the older plane.

I read the post as indicating the type of plane was part of what caused the crash; I feel it's too early to say what caused the crash yet.
 
It was an older Tupelov that had recently been overhauled with new mechanicals, avionics and interior. My first thought was "another crash of one of these old Soviet POS airliners", however, the weather seems have had something to do with it.
 
Last edited:
Far be it from me to second-guess the decision of the pilots... nonetheless, it does seem baffling that they wouldn't take the alternate to Minsk, especially after the missed approaches.

What a horrible tragedy. My heart goes out to Poland. After all her triumphs, starting with liberating herself from the Communist Bloc... now this. Such a tragedy.

I was beyond words when I read the story this morning. That's is why I simply posted the link.

-Rich
 
RJM62 said:
Far be it from me to second-guess the decision of the pilots... nonetheless, it does seem baffling that they wouldn't take the alternate to Minsk, especially after the missed approaches.

What a horrible tragedy. My heart goes out to Poland. After all her triumphs, starting with liberating herself from the Communist Bloc... now this. Such a tragedy.

I was beyond words when I read the story this morning. That's is why I simply posted the link.

-Rich
Click to expand...

I wondered about not going to the alternate either....I don't know if someone made a poor decision or if something was wrong with the plane so that attempting to land was the best option from a choice of poor ones.

Sympathies to the Polish nation.
 
RJM62 said:
Far be it from me to second-guess the decision of the pilots... nonetheless, it does seem baffling that they wouldn't take the alternate to Minsk, especially after the missed approaches.
Click to expand...
Maybe there was pressure to complete the flight as planned, due to the heavy VIP presence on board... whatever the case, it is definitely a grim day for Poland.
:(
 
It's hard to fully comprehend just how bad this situation is. Imagine our president and a few other high-level dying in a plane crash. That's how people in Poland must feel.

Pretty shocking...
 
sba55 said:
It's hard to fully comprehend just how bad this situation is. Imagine our president and a few other high-level dying in a plane crash. That's how people in Poland must feel.

Pretty shocking...
Click to expand...
Hmmm a comment I heard in the locker room at the gym this morning about if this had been our president would surely send this thread into the SZ.
 
There seem to be conflicts in what's being reported on approaches. Some sources are saying holds rather than approaches.
The president is apparently a ceremonial position in Poland. The Prime Minister seems to be more the COO.

Best,

Dave
 
So there's some speculation that the pilots may have been pressured by the boss to defy Russian ATC and land there, despite the weather.

Of course, it's just speculation; and I don't know whether the President of Poland is "commander-in-chief" over the armed forces, as in the U.S., but it does raise a rather grim question about the pilot's authority as PIC versus orders from a superior, if that relationship did indeed exist.

-Rich
 
Last edited:
sba55 said:
It's hard to fully comprehend just how bad this situation is. Imagine our president and a few other high-level dying in a plane crash. That's how people in Poland must feel.

Pretty shocking...
Click to expand...

Sort of the Poles have a PM who is the real head of the country. The President is mostly a figure head. Still horrible. Actually their military took a much harder hit than did the political leadership.
 
AdamZ said:
Sort of the Poles have a PM who is the real head of the country. The President is mostly a figure head. Still horrible. Actually their military took a much harder hit than did the political leadership.
Click to expand...
Sure, the POTUS analogy isn't perfect, but I suspect it's very close. In those parliamentary democracies, the President is the head of state, and his duties tend to be similar to that of a President in a presidential system.
 
THis is a horrible tragedy, made even worse by the fact that they were going to visit the site of the Katyn Massacre, where top Polish leadership was killed by the trainloads by the Russians. A terrible irony. :frown3::frown3:

I feel very strongly that Obama must attend this funeral. Not Biden. Not Hillary. Obama. No excuses. Poland is our best friend over in Europe, not to mention ally. The Poles love America, and deserve our support. I trust that Obama will do the right thing. I'm not trying to start a Spin Zone commentary. Note I said that I trust he will do the right thing. All I am doing is making a point. This tragedy is a big deal, and should be treated accordingly.

(I have a great deal of sympathy, having lived in Poland as a child. Wonderful people, and long suffering, are the Poles).
 
flyersfan31 said:
THis is a horrible tragedy, made even worse by the fact that they were going to visit the site of the Katyn Massacre, where top Polish leadership was killed by the trainloads by the Russians. A terrible irony. :frown3::frown3:

I feel very strongly that Obama must attend this funeral. Not Biden. Not Hillary. Obama. No excuses. Poland is our best friend over in Europe, not to mention ally. The Poles love America, and deserve our support. I trust that Obama will do the right thing. I'm not trying to start a Spin Zone commentary. Note I said that I trust he will do the right thing. All I am doing is making a point. This tragedy is a big deal, and should be treated accordingly.

(I have a great deal of sympathy, having lived in Poland as a child. Wonderful people, and long suffering, are the Poles).
Click to expand...

I agree that he must go. Whether I trust that he will... no comment.

I also have a profound love and respect for the Polish people, based both on their history and achievements, and on the many friendships I've had with people from Poland. My late friend Stefan Sowiak was one of them, and a more decent and generous person I doubt I'll ever meet.

Also, a branch of my family on my mother's side is Polish, and I remember sitting for hours listening to them talking about the Russian invasion, World War II, and so forth when I was a child. These talks, and those with four uncles on my father's side who served in the war, probably account for my love of history.

-Rich
 
Apparently the same pilot had been involved in an incident in 2008 in which he defied President Kaczynski's orders to land at Tbilisi, and diverted to Azerbaijan instead. The article states that during the 2008 flight, he was threatened with unspecified "consequences" and told by Kaczynski that a pilot "cannot be fearful," but ultimately received a medal. But it also states that the pilot suffered depression after the incident.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/04/13/world/europe/13crash.html?hp

This is just speculation, of course, but it's not unheard of for a someone in the military to be disciplined and commended for the same act. Don't ask me how I know...

-Rich
 
ScottM said:
So are the British just chopped liver now? I think they are by far our best friends in Europe.
Click to expand...

They were but ever since the industrial revoution England has really been built up and since its an island its in grave danger of capsizing so we want to hedge our bets:rofl:
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top