Preflight and runup... every time?

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Roadracin

Pre-Flight
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Roadracin
Assuming you go by the checklist before the 1st flight of the day

If you fly in for a burger or bathroom stop etc. Do you preflight and/or do a run up again before leaving?

I’m uncomfortable preflighting and walking away from the plane so I wait till I’m ready to go then Preflight (except for checking fuel/oil).
Curious what you guys do.
 
Roadracin said:
Assuming you go by the checklist before the 1st flight of the day

If you fly in for a burger or bathroom stop etc. Do you preflight and/or do a run up again before leaving?

I’m uncomfortable preflighting and walking away from the plane so I wait till I’m ready to go then Preflight (except for checking fuel/oil).
Curious what you guys do.
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The answer to the question in the thread title is yes. I abbreviate a little based on the the timing of the ‘legs.’ But you saying “ ‘except’ for checking for fuel/oil” has the hairs on the back of my neck standing up.
 
Meaning I check fuel and oil before the full preflight to allow time for filling if needed. Then recheck and sump during full preflight
 
Full preflight (except opening the cowling for the Tiger).

Run up every single time (there are pilots that don’t?)

I sometimes walk away for a bit after preflight if nobody is around and I can see the plane. Had to do that last weekend. Left the iPad in the plane during a lunch run and it was hot on returning so took it back to the FBO and put it in the mini-fridge for about 20 minutes. Nobody present at all and could see the plane out the window.
 
woodchucker said:
Full preflight (except opening the cowling for the Tiger).

Run up every single time (there are pilots that don’t?)

I sometimes walk away for a bit after preflight if nobody is around and I can see the plane. Had to do that last weekend. Left the iPad in the plane during a lunch run and it was hot on returning so took it back to the FBO and put it in the mini-fridge for about 20 minutes. Nobody present at all and could see the plane out the window.
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Yeah. If I turn my back on the plane I check the fluids. Do I think someone’s gonna siphon out the gas. No. But it’s my routine. Just to many ran outta gas accident reports I guess. Like I said, I don’t really think someone’s draining the tanks behind my back. Just a healthy respect for chekin’ the gas.
 
luvflyin said:
Yeah. If I turn my back on the plane I check the fluids. Do I think someone’s gonna siphon out the gas. No. But it’s my routine. Just to many ran outta gas accident reports I guess. Like I said, I don’t really think someone’s draining the tanks behind my back. Just a healthy respect for chekin’ the gas.
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You and me both, my friend. That’s one of those things that in theory should never happen, or at least be a rare event.
 
I do a full preflight first flight of the day but the subsequent ones are abbreviated- check oil/fuel quantity and sump if any fuel was taken. Quick walk around to catch anything obvious after that.

runup always.
 
Roadracin said:
Assuming you go by the checklist before the 1st flight of the day

If you fly in for a burger or bathroom stop etc. Do you preflight and/or do a run up again before leaving?

I’m uncomfortable preflighting and walking away from the plane so I wait till I’m ready to go then Preflight (except for checking fuel/oil).
Curious what you guys do.
Click to expand...
complete pre-flight/runup on all starts. what's the harm?
 
Depends on what pre flight means.

I rent, so for first flight, thorough "pre flight" on outside of plane, by checklist, look for damage, rash, flat spots, check brakes and every thing else including sumping tanks. Inside I do the full pre takeoff checklists, including start, pre taxi, taxi and before take off which includes runup.

If I stop for fuel, then quick run around outside looking for damage, loose stuff, sump and check tanks, check oil. Then I do inside check lists, might skip AP check, but that's about it. Always do run up.

If stop doesn't include fuel, but I get out of airplane, then I do what I do for fuel, except sumping the tanks.
 
If I stop for bathroom or what not and I haven't refueled, I'll do the pre flight checklist, and do the run up. But I won't re check the oil, etc. I'm just going with the idea that the odds are close to 100% that no one is draining oil and fuel from my plane, cutting cables, stealing batteries, etc.

But to each their own. No shade on those that check tire pressures, etc. every single time they get out and in of the airplane.
 
Full pre-flight before first flight. Full runup on every flight. Quick walk around with fuel/oil check added with a quick leak check by opening the cowl before each subsequent flight.
 
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Depends. Full preflight and runup first start of the day every time. Stopping for a $100 burger or left the plane sitting for a while? Quick oil check and run up before departure. Left the plane sitting for several hours? Full preflight and runup.

When I was towing banners and dropping jumpers, it was pretty standard to do a full preflight and runup before the first takeoff of the day only and all subsequent takeoffs that day were taxi and takeoff without delay. But hot fueling was also pretty common for those ops so mid day engine starts were more the exception than the rule.
 
I don't mind re-doing the preflight; I enjoy touching and studying the airplane. Checking gas and oil is part of it, too; especially making sure caps are secure. If the engine has been shut-down, I'll run-up again -- mainly because it seems like a good habit. Fly safely
 
You're asking - if I've parked my plane on a strange ramp for an hour or two, do I still inspect it when I go out to fly it again? You betcha I do, still a full walk around.
 
Yes, and yes! Things can loosen, fall off, or go awry, after a flight. Things I have found on preflight after a flight leg include a missing exhaust stud nut, lost fairing screws, loose landing light, oil leaks, brake fluid leak, etc. Flying can even slosh unknown water around the tanks. Stuff happens. Definitely do a walk-around and fluids check before any flight. And you may well discover a mag failure or malfunction, or a bad or fouled plug during pre-flight runup at any time. Better to find out about ignition malfunctions on the ground than 50 feet above the runway.
 
Do it the same every time.

Before each flight, pre-flight the aircraft and runup.

Do it the same every time.

For the typical pilot, there is no such thing as an emergency takeoff.
 
Run-up always. Yes yes yes.

the whole point of a pre-flight is to make sure the airplane is good to take to the skies again. Whether it was on the ground for five minutes or five days you check this stuff

in fact, things rarely just break by themselves, so an argument can be made that the best time to do a "preflight" is actually right after flying to see if some panel came off or cable loosened or you burned a ton of oil, etc
 
Tantalum said:
in fact, things rarely just break by themselves, so an argument can be made that the best time to do a "preflight" is actually right after flying to see if some panel came off or cable loosened or you burned a ton of oil, etc
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Absolutely!
I do a postflight inspection and after the last flight of the day a thorough cleaning is an excellent opportunity to give the plane a good check, missing/loose screws etc. Not rare on a Pitts. I've been accused of cleaning more than flying, but I see it as preventive maintenance.
 
If the engine stops, all fluids are checked, a walk-around is completed, the controls are checked to be free and correct, a runup is done, and the before flight checklist is completed. Doesn't matter if it is one minute or one hour. I admit that my first preflight of the day is the most detailed, but the things that bite most pilots are checked on every flight.
 
Run-up every time after a full stop.
Preflight before first flight. Thoroughly.

Cursory after exiting plane for a stop. But always stick the fuel tanks, look for oil, general overview.
 
Pre-flight prior to first start up of the day.
After a stop for eats or fuel if I am out of sight of the plane. Walk around to check surfaces, check fuel, look for oil leaks on ground or hydraulic fluid leaks
Run -up every start up
 
David235 said:
If the engine stops, all fluids are checked, a walk-around is completed, the controls are checked to be free and correct, a runup is done, and the before flight checklist is completed. Doesn't matter if it is one minute or one hour.
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It can take 20 minutes after shutdown before all the oil to drip back to the pan on some motors. So if you check the oil 5 minutes after shutting down, what is that telling you exactly? It's likely to read low at that point, but how low is still normal?

I've had oil leaks develop in flight and found the evidence on the plane after I landed. In each case, looking at the amount of oil covering the belly sides and tail of the plane made me swear the motor no longer had any oil left in it. In each case, once everything dripped back down into the pan, the dipstick showed it was down 1 or maybe 2 quarts from where it was before the flight. Which is to say definitely cause for concern and something to address before further flight. But its also to say that anyone who got within 100ft of the plane knew it was leaking oil and something was amiss.

So I totally understand the desire to check oil even after only shutting for 5 minutes. But I don't understand what doing so is going to show you that you don't already know.
 
Without at least a minimal runup you won't know if one mag died during the last flight, or if a P-lead has broken. You won't know if the carb heat is working. This stuff does break, and usually does it in flight.
 
After first flight of the day,I do a walk around, oil check and run up.
 
Juliet Hotel said:
It can take 20 minutes after shutdown before all the oil to drip back to the pan on some motors. So if you check the oil 5 minutes after shutting down, what is that telling you exactly? It's likely to read low at that point, but how low is still normal?

I've had oil leaks develop in flight and found the evidence on the plane after I landed. In each case, looking at the amount of oil covering the belly sides and tail of the plane made me swear the motor no longer had any oil left in it. In each case, once everything dripped back down into the pan, the dipstick showed it was down 1 or maybe 2 quarts from where it was before the flight. Which is to say definitely cause for concern and something to address before further flight. But its also to say that anyone who got within 100ft of the plane knew it was leaking oil and something was amiss.

So I totally understand the desire to check oil even after only shutting for 5 minutes. But I don't understand what doing so is going to show you that you don't already know.
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Oil can burn through the engine too unexpectantly, leaving no evidence outside. I check every time before a restart after being out of the plane. If it's down just a little, (1/8th of a quart or so), then I attribute it to oil not draining down. What I really want to look for is a quart gone in an hour or two or worse.
 
I was taught and still do full preflight first flight of the day. Tires, fuel, oil after other intermediate stops. Full run-up after every start-up.

Rational for the basic 3 after other stops was that if those 3 are ok you will almost certainly survive the takeoff even if other problems develop.
 
Dan Thomas said:
Without at least a minimal runup you won't know if one mag died during the last flight,
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Disagree. We look for a noticeable and measurable RPM drop during mag checks. If a mag fails in flight and you're going to get an RPM drop. If you got a sudden unexplained RPM drop during the last flight leg, you should be doing WAY more than just a runup before the next takeoff.


or if a P-lead has broken.
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A safety of the plane on the ground issue, not a safety of flight issue.

You won't know if the carb heat is working.
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Very true. And if carb ice requiring application of carb heat was something that happened on every flight, or every 3rd flight, or every 50th flight, you'd have a good point.

I checked it this morning and the engine reacted accordingly. I checked it when I applied it before reducing power for landing on the last flight and the engine reacted accordingly. So we're not really talking about making sure it didn't break the last flight, we're talking about making sure it didn't break sometime between the last landing and this takeoff. Could it happen? Sure. Is it likely to happen? No. Is it likely I'll need it on this flight coming up? No. You opinion is obviously different and that's fine. I don't see it as a life and death thing but I don't expect anyone to agree with me.
 
PaulS said:
Oil can burn through the engine too unexpectantly, leaving no evidence outside.
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Yes it can. But the engine is required to have an oil sump capacity sufficient enough to allow you to take off with full fuel, develop a leak/oil loss of x rate and still land with enough oil in the sump to run the engine safely. I'm not an engineer so I don't know what that x rate specifically is, but based on my experience with oil losses that didn't exceed that rate I can tell you its a very aggressive rate. I very much doubt the engine would be able to burn oil that quickly. If you were getting that much oil around the rings, it would be spitting out the tail pipe and would definitely leave evidence outside the plane that you could easily see.
 
Juliet Hotel said:
Disagree. We look for a noticeable and measurable RPM drop during mag checks. If a mag fails in flight and you're going to get an RPM drop. If you got a sudden unexplained RPM drop during the last flight leg, you should be doing WAY more than just a runup before the next takeoff.
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When I was director of maintenance in a flight school, as well as an instructor, I sometimes took the airplanes up to check out complaints. And I would find some other stuff that nobody had mentioned, stuff that needed fixing. When I got back I would ask them about it. "Oh, it's been doing that for a long time," they usually said. Righty, then. All pilots are sharp enough to notice an RPM drop when a mag fails in flight? Nope. Thousands of pilots wouldn't recognize carb ice accumulation until the engine just about quit. They just keep opening the throttle to get the RPM back, and they would do that for a failed mag, too.

A failed P-lead is indeed a danger on the ground. So how many folks check the mags at idle before shutdown?
 
Full pre-flight on first flight of the day, combat pre-flight after that. And I like the Savvy school of thought on ignition checks, so raised RPM ignition check on the first flight, just because Lycoming says to do it. But subsequent daily flights I will just check that each ignition source is working (at idle) as I roll to the hold short.

To the NTSB: feel free to quote me.
 
Full preflight inspection prior to first flight of the day. Takes about 15-20 min. After that, check all fluids, and general condition under cowling.
And a quick walk around, to make sure nothing is obviously damaged or falling off. Takes about 4 or 5 minutes.
 
Do the same thing, the same way, every time.
You can skip steps and get away with it ... until you can’t.
 
Dan Thomas said:
When I was director of maintenance in a flight school, as well as an instructor, I sometimes took the airplanes up to check out complaints. And I would find some other stuff that nobody had mentioned, stuff that needed fixing. When I got back I would ask them about it. "Oh, it's been doing that for a long time," they usually said. Righty, then. All pilots are sharp enough to notice an RPM drop when a mag fails in flight? Nope. Thousands of pilots wouldn't recognize carb ice accumulation until the engine just about quit. They just keep opening the throttle to get the RPM back, and they would do that for a failed mag, too.
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As someone who manages uneducated people for living, I absolutely agree with you. If there is an available path people can take that will allow them to miss something they otherwise should have noticed, they will find that path and take it. Every time.

{Hypocrite Mode}However just because your typical student/renter might miss such an RPM drop or otherwise notice it but just add throttle to counteract it without giving it any other thought, doesn't mean I will do the same.

I'm reminded of the time I noticed the amount of swings the prop took and the position it stopped in after mixture pull changed on the plane I was flying banners in every day. The new behavior was consistent and definitely different than what the engine did in the previous months I'd been flying it. I mentioned it to one of the mechanics we used as I was concerned about the internals of the engine I was banking my life on 8 hours a day every day. He more or less said 'ah you're just being paranoid, it means nothing shut up and fly it you dumb pilot.' A week later they were pulling and swapping two cylinders. After that, the swings and position of the prop after mixture pull went back to exactly the same when I first started flying the plane. But yeah, I'm the crazy one...:rolleyes: {/Hypocrite Mode}

A failed P-lead is indeed a danger on the ground. So how many folks check the mags at idle before shutdown?
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Pretty much no one checks the mags at shutdown. But how often do P-leads fail? And how often do GA airplanes shutdown at the same parking spot they started up from? And how often does anyone touch a prop without assuming it's hot?

The answers to all of questions are the same, just slightest bit above zero. So yeah, is all that going wrong a risk? Sure. Is it at all likely? Not even a little.


TommyG said:
Those 2 minutes spent can be a life saver.
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Go try to pay your rent, or worse yet your mortgage, by flying planes for a living and try to convince your boss that time ISN'T money and let me know how it works out for you.
 
I've had plenty of discoveries during preflights over my meager flying hours and years...rodent issues, bird issues, water in fuel tanks, plugged pitot and static ports due to insects, plugged fuel tank vent, missing screws/bolts, inop landing light, ... and I've got less than 200 hours. The only things I may skip on a second preflight of the day after a brief stop somewhere is the tire pressure and brake pads... i'll eyeball those during a walkaround on the second brief stop of the day. Full preflight and runup always.
 
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