PPL student - unclear training 'flight plan'

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VoiceOfReason

Filing Flight Plan
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VoiceOfReason
It's not that I'm in a hurry here-- it's something i'm doing for fun. Despite all that, i'm pretty unclear about the training process from where I am to 'PPL in hand, go buy your plane now.'

I"m looking for your input on what my "syllabus" is or should look like. It seems i'm kinda wandering between piles of textbooks, online courses, flight school. What order is all this supposed to go in ? Who is supposed to have told me how to do it ?

On advice of a pilot friend, I bought the SPortys on line course and have completed that. I find that i'm not as good as I should be on most topics (C student here) when I take the quizzes and am spending hours looking up individual topics to learn more (not to simply pass the test--- but to understand it with completion).

I'm probably 15 flight hours in with my CFI who is great. My landings aren't very smooth yet. Havent solo'd yet. I know all of you solo'd after 4 hours and aced everything but I only got my medical last week so wasn't 'legal' to solo yet anyhow. Not that i'm hurrying it.

I'm flying 2-3 times / week at 1.5 - 2.5 flight hours each. I have a flexible schedule and budget isnt a consideration, so how should I approach the rest ? My CFI is going to the airlines in about a month, so clearly I wont be done yet and will have to get a different CFI to help me after he's gone.

- accounting for weather (michigan winter) , how long would you expect me to take ? I think CFI said average is like 53 hours for his students. I'm probly average.
- when SHOULD I take the written test ?
- what should my crystal ball look like on oral exam and check ride timing from now, in terms of like how many months
- lastly--- how many hours of off-course study did you require to feel prepared ?

Seems like there's just a lack of clarity in my head about what to expect and i'm unsure what my time horizon looks like, and the order of events to put 'em in. I sent this to Behind the Prop podcast, hope for some answers there if they use the topic, but love your input here !
 
Part 61 has a list of procedures and maneuvers you have to learn before you solo, before you go on solo cross-country, and before you take your checkride. So at a general level, expect flight training to occur in those three phases. You can take a look at the private pilot Airman Certification Standard (ACS) for all of the knowledge and skills you will be required to have by the time you take your checkride. At this point it will probably be overwhelming to you so I'd probably focus on learning how to land and do the other things you're working on with your instructor first, but if you get a streak of bad weather and can't fly for awhile, it will give you something to do.
 
thanks for tryin' man... but that is a 76 page "re-cap" of whats in the lessons.

i'm trying to find an overview or a summary that helps me understand timelines till completion I guess
 
Patience grasshopper, 15 hours isn't that far in. How old are you (approximately) and what type of airplane are you flying? I will tell you, worrying about a timeline and checks on a piece of paper rather than focusing on mastering the different skills to fly an airplane will slow you down. You need to be competent, period. It will take as long as it takes.
 
Patience grasshopper, 15 hours isn't that far in. How old are you (approximately) and what type of airplane are you flying? I will tell you, worrying about a timeline and checks on a piece of paper rather than focusing on mastering the different skills to fly an airplane will slow you down. You need to be competent, period. It will take as long as it takes.

Agreed on everything you said. When I went to college they said "about 4 years". Just trying to get a very simple timeline horizon and NOT because I want to rush anything. I just want a general idea, and it seems to be a well guarded secret for some inexplicable reason

55 Y.O. flying rented equipment (archer II), loads of time flexibility. eager but not "anxious" if that makes sense.
 
VoiceOfReason said:
thanks for tryin' man... but that is a 76 page "re-cap" of whats in the lessons.

i'm trying to find an overview or a summary that helps me understand timelines till completion I guess
Click to expand...

My instructor had a training syllabus that I followed. Don't stress over how long it takes to solo. There are many variables that will make the time longer or shorter, some you can control and others you can't.

I would say, slow down and enjoy the ride through training because now is time to get the foundation for a long and safe flying career put into place. Sounds to me like you have your head on straight ...
 
I'm a few decades out of PPL training so I'll just suggest this
focus on reviewing the lesson today and preparing for the one tomorrow. Enjoy them, learn from them. Don't worry about the lessons next month. Those will have their own moment to shine. These moments are for the lessons now.
You'll get there around 50- maybe 60 hours almost certainly.....if you stick with it

I personally wouldn't want to lock myself into any sort of solid set in stone syllabus. Being able to adapt to your needs, the weather. Aircraft availability, etc and shake things up a bit just makes sense to me. If it's windy today it just might be the day to skip ahead to crosswind landings instead of working on whatever the next checkbox item is.... that sort of thing.

So much depends on how often you are flying...and yes weather plays a roll.
You're much more likely to finish faster if you fly or at least are available to fly or do some ground work every day...vs every week or every month.
A lot also depends on what other life distractions you have.... a 50+ hour per week job just cuts into it.
Are you available to fly last minute if your instructor has a cancelation?

When I was training I was working full time but was young and single with nothing else to do. I was in a new town where I didn't know anyone, and would just go hang out at the airport a lot of evening and weekends even when I wasn't flying. I lived maybe 10 minutes away. Still, because of weather, budget limitations, and just life, there were some months I only flew one or none at all. That slowed me down but I still got there.

Oh, and don't worry about changing instructors. My first CFI moved on just after I soloed so not so different than you. It might have hurt a little but if it did it was negligible.
 
VoiceOfReason said:
i'm trying to find an overview or a summary that helps me understand timelines till completion I guess
Click to expand...

The problem is, there is no set timeline to completion.

FAR part 61 will tell you the minimum amount of experience required to be eligible to take the private pilot practical test. Oftentimes, people have a lot more time and effort invested than the minimum prior to taking the test. That can be for various reasons, be it weather, broken airplanes, slow learning, poor teaching, etc. Perhaps you can ask your instructor where they think you are in the learning process and see if they will offer an estimated time of completion.

Depending on where you're located, the winter months can mean extended periods between lessons, which leads to extended completion times due to gaps between lessons.
 
Take some time off and come to Florida enjoy the weather and you have plenty of schools to choose from. There are a few schools that have accelerated programs.
 
First thing you need to do, get the solo and checkride hours out your head. You get there when you get there. Focus on learning, and performing to standards. Keep an open dialogue with your CFI as to how you are doing, if he is critiquing you, be open. If he says you are doing something wrong, don’t take it as yelling at you.

Study, study, study. And you wanna be a good pilot, go beyond the ACS.
 
VoiceOfReason said:
I'm probably 15 flight hours in with my CFI who is great.
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Your CFI may be a nice guy (or gal), but if they aren't using a syllabus and haven't given you an idea of timeline, progress, etc., I'd have a hard time calling them "great". Those are necessary and important parts of training. In fact, all of your questions are pretty basic topics that your CFI should have addressed without even being asked. I mean literally - virtually all of them are things I would touch on during a first meeting with a new student.

Hopefully your next CFI will be better.
 
VoiceOfReason said:
thanks for tryin' man... but that is a 76 page "re-cap" of whats in the lessons.

i'm trying to find an overview or a summary that helps me understand timelines till completion I guess
Click to expand...

Next your going to say the ACS is an XX-page recap of what’s in the checkride.

You asked for a syllabus in post 1. The Sporty’s TCO isn’t the only syllabus out there but believe it or not, Sporty’s successfully trains students thru their PPL using that syllabus. Every day.

But you seem to better know how the ground material meshes with the dual and solo flying lessons to achieve the desired proficiency outlined in the ACS.
 
A "syllabus" isn't going to give a timeline, it only lists what you need to learn. As others have said, everybody learns at a different pace, and weather and aircraft and instructor availability will affect things.

A college can give you a schedule because it's a scheduled class. Instead of finishing sooner or later, everybody finishes when the class is over; slow learners get C's and fast learners get A's. Learning to fly is an open ended pass/fail course.

But if you must have a timeline, say you average 3 hours per week, which is realistic. If you're a fast learner and have no schedule disruptions and make it in the minimum 40 hours, that's 13.3 weeks, a little over 3 months. At a more realistic 60 hours, 20 weeks or 4½ months.

You can take the written as soon as you complete the course (if you're taking one) or when your instructor signs you off (if he's doing your ground school). Some people do it before they start flying, but I think by doing it concurrently, what you need to learn will make more sense in the context of the actual flying you're doing.
 
VoiceOfReason said:
Patience grasshopper, 15 hours isn't that far in. How old are you (approximately) and what type of airplane are you flying? I will tell you, worrying about a timeline and checks on a piece of paper rather than focusing on mastering the different skills to fly an airplane will slow you down. You need to be competent, period. It will take as long as it takes.

Agreed on everything you said. When I went to college they said "about 4 years". Just trying to get a very simple timeline horizon and NOT because I want to rush anything. I just want a general idea, and it seems to be a well guarded secret for some inexplicable reason

55 Y.O. flying rented equipment (archer II), loads of time flexibility. eager but not "anxious" if that makes sense.
Click to expand...

Ok, so you are older, a younger person will absorb this stuff quicker, usually, so looking for benchmarks will just make you feel bad. Some people are natural aces, most are not, although there are quite a few who think they are and are probably not. I am not a CFI, let's get that out of the way. I learned to fly in 1988, flew for a few years, then took about 25 years off. I have effectively soloed twice.

There are two aspects to being a pilot. The first is the stick and rudder skills. Understanding how the airplane flies, how to control the airplane and what to do if the airplane starts getting out of control. Out of control, what does that mean? There are many phases of flight, each of those phases bring there own potential gotchas. Mastering this is very important, not fully understanding it can kill you.

Here are some of the highlights.
Take off, lots of things going on here, torque and p-factor, those try to take off the runway. Don't let them. Rotation. Needs to be done to get off the runway. Too soon, you may end up stuck in ground effect. You need to understand what to do if you end up behind the power curve. Too late, the airplane starts doing funny things. Work on getting that correct. Keep the airplane on the runway during take off. Don't forget about crosswinds. You need to be a true believer in crosswind correction, I wasn't at first.... it took about 0.2 seconds to become a believer, but it was the hard way and I almost bent a plane. Don't be shy with rudder and aileron on take off. I had instructor who explained this to me perfectly, make the airplane your *****, control the airplane, without overcontrolling, don't let it control you.

Cruise, there are a lot of things here, stick and rudder again. Navigation, looking out for other aircraft, talking to ATC, getting mentally set up for approach and landing. All big stuff.

Landing, another critical area. Again lots of things here. Flying a pattern, picking a runway at a non controlled field, dealing with the tower at a controlled field. Big stuff, and you need to be competent at it. There is just a lot to learn, pay attention. I won't try to summarize it, other than this. Before you can solo you need to demonstrate you can do all I pointed out above, plus you need to show solid judgement. You should be competent at going around. You should be competent with crosswinds, you need to understand how the pattern and how to enter it. You need to understand how to land and control the airplane. You probably aren't here yet, but here is a hint. When you land it's a dynamic situation. This means that the controls don't just stay in one place. They are constantly adjusted. Especially the rudder on short final if there is a cross wind. You will definitely not solo until you master this. It takes practice plus a lot of listening to your instructor. Do what he says, empty your mind of what you think needs to be done if it is different from what he says. The flight doesn't end until you shut down. Keep crosswind controls in on roll out. Put controls in the appropriate positions while taxiing. All important.

There is a lot, you need to master it. Focus on mastering it rather than how long it takes.

The second aspect of being a pilot, equally important, if not more important is the head part of it. Using your noodle to keep you from getting killed. Weather, navigation, rules, right of way, there is a lot. You get this through studying. There is a lot of book work with flying. Don't skimp on it. You said you are using Sporty's, good choice. There are courses out there that focus on making you an expert at taking the test, you want to be an expert on the material. I used sporty's for my instrument rating. It worked really well for me. I studied the material, then started taking the practice tests. I went back and restudied my weak areas. I did this until I consistently scored above a 95. I got a 98 on the written. Do this for the private.

After you pass the private, continue to study, you need to pass an oral test too. Keep taking the practice test, this will keep you sharp. I'm about 4 years out from my instrument test and I still take the practice tests to keep sharp.

I think you are doing everything right. Especially flying a few times a week. The only thing that sucks is that you are losing your instructor. I would get after him now to find another who can fly with you as much as this guy. An Archer is a good platform to learn on.

Becoming a pilot takes determination and perseverance. You will go through trials and tribulations, but if you want it, you will get it.
 
VoiceOfReason said:
What order is all this supposed to go in ? Who is supposed to have told me how to do it ?
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People are all different.
Different people do things in different order, and there are pro's and con's.
Some people study for (and actually take!) the written before ever stepping into an airplane (maybe for financial reasons -- books are cheap).
Some people jump straight into the airplane and put off studying for the written and take it at the last minute (maybe because they dread taking tests).

Personally, I think doing both in parallel -- the in-between approach -- is the best. So that you learn about theory, and then see it put into practice just a few days later, and theory and practice and be intertwined in your brain.

Your CFI should be the one who tells you "how to do it", after first listening to YOU talk a bit about your own situation, your ambitions, your limitations (time/job/family?), and what books/courses are already on your shelf. There are "typical" orders in which things happen, but everyone is different. Training will always be a conversation, an ongoing one, with your CFI. A good CFI will have a syllabus to guide you both, but will be able to rearrange it to adapt to whatever's going on.

Timelines? Equally if not more variable from person to person. I took me 9 months (82 hours), which is longer than average, but flying is a lifelong skill so it doesn't matter at all now.
 
As a new pilot, I had the same questions as you. There were a lot of books and training guides. I started with the ASA kit and sporty's. The sporty's videos are nice but it lacks in information for the test. The test prep is excellent and I ended up with a 95% on the test. I will say, if you start watching checkride videos or podcasts, you will notice that the information and the way the checkride is structures is all the same. I recommend you get the Private Pilot checkride book on Amazon and use Jason Schapperts audiobook or book called passing your private pilot checkride. That is pretty much all you need to pass the oral portion of the checkride.
 
I started training in early June, and got my cert the following Feb. Initially flew Tue, Thur, Sat pretty regularly, but like you, didn't start out with a medical so couldn't solo until I got that. Even then, I didn't solo the day I got it. I had 28 hrs before my first solo. I had 56 hrs when I finished my PPL checkride. For various "life" reasons, there was a two month gap between my first solo flight and my next flight, and my flying schedule was more catch-as-catch-can after that rather than the Tue-Thur-Sat I started out with.

I did a lot of reading (and took the written) before I started flight training. I did a lot of reading after I started flight training, too. I remember the FAA pilot manuals, FAR/AIM, and regs, the Gleim PPL prep books, and Rod Machado's book, but there were two or three other "what you need to know for your PPL" books I read at the time too. Mostly saying the same things, but presented in different ways that just helped reinforce what I was supposed to know.

I didn't follow a syllabus, but I did keep an eye on the regs to track progress/checkride readiness.
 
If you're looking for numbers, I soloed around 20 hours, and finished up around 60. I was 38. A rule of thumb I've heard is about half your age is the number of hours to solo. It seems to be true of most people I've talked to who have gone through training in the last decade or so.

I flew 3x per week, and it took me roughly 4 months start to finish. Landings took me a lot of time to figure out. Once I got signed off to solo, I probably spent 10 hours just doing t&g's trying to figure out of. Whenever my cfi wasn't available, I'd fly solo.

I did an online ground school, and had my written done before I started flying. I wouldn't necessarily recommend that. It'd be a good idea to start on it now. Work on it a couple hours on days when the weather sucks. Don't be like a couple of my friends who were checkride ready, and THEN started, took two months to get it done, and then had to do more training in the plane to knock the rust off. My primary CFI's liked their students to have their written test done ahead of time to kind of screen out the people who weren't dedicated.

Getting done in winter in Michigan is going to be hard. I started in July. We were sweaty, but the weather usually cooperated. I'd guess you could get it done by June or so if you stay on top of it.

I think I heard them talk about your question on BTP. That's a good podcast, although I disagree with them about not starting your written early. Max Trescott's "aviation news talk" podcast is another good one if you like podcasts. He has done mock oral exams on there with a DPE.
 
Damn @PaulS, VERY well said!

It seems pretty natural for any new person in the game trying to learn to fly wanting to get an idea of how long and when certain milestones might happen. I know I did. But after a while, it became evident - it will be when it will be. @Rgbeard threw out there 4 months. It took me quite a bit longer but that's another story of itself. I'd say expect between 4 months to a year. Factors that will affect the timing include - your instructor's abilities, your instructor's availability, your abilities, your availability, the weather, plane availability. No one can answer all those variables, so the real answer is - it depends.

As for when you should take the written. Once you pass the written, it's good for 2yrs. If you don't get to your checkride by then, you'll need to retake the test. So #1 just make sure you're confident you'll finish and get to your checkride within 2yrs of taking the written. I took my test about 3-4 weeks before my checkride. In part because I procrastinated, but in hindsight I think it worked out well because all the information was fresh in my mind for the Orals during the Practical. When I did my Instrument training, I did the opposite... I took the test prior to starting any training. However, that was because I did the accelerated (10-day PIC) approach to getting my instrument rating and they required the written to be out of the way. That said, I guess it was still about 3-4 weeks prior to my orals/practical. I will say that taking the written (for instrument) prior to any ground school or flying was a little tough in the aspect of there were just things I was reading/learning (and memorizing) that didn't have a lot of context to them. Once I got into the ground school and training, they began to make sense because I had the context of where they fit in.
 
Dana said:
A "syllabus" isn't going to give a timeline, it only lists what you need to learn.

You can take the written as soon as you complete the course (if you're taking one) or when your instructor signs you off (if he's doing your ground school). Some people do it before they start flying, but I think by doing it concurrently, what you need to learn will make more sense in the context of the actual flying you're doing.
Click to expand...

Our school uses a syllabus that does have a suggested timeline. It includes far more than the things required by Part 61.

I do have one new student who has completed all of the ground training, and I agree with you that doing it concurrently with flying, it would make more sense.
 
I'm not so sure I agree completely...but generally yeah, I suppose
I took ground school one time several years before flying as a continuing ed sort of thing just for personal interest while I was still in college. Just because I liked aviation.
Sure a few points might have made more sense but I don't recall there being a lot. I think it would depend on the person and their interest and aptitude....

I'm pretty sure I aced the instrument written or pretty close to it before doing much if any flying for it
and ditto the commercial....well probably just after I started lessons for that one
 
kath said:
People are all different.
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As a CFII, the "how long will it take" question is pretty common. Also the hardest question to answer. Of course I have a syllabus, but that is a list of tasks to master. Not how long it will take. Its not like everyone will finish after they fly each lesson in the plan one time.

I have had students from 40.5 to 210 hours go for private checkrides. Both passed first try and both are excellent pilots. It just takes some longer than others. Don't stress over the hours and work on instead mastering each task. Most take 55 - 65 hours, but I hate to even give a range. Everyone is different and the hours can put unnecessary pressure on you.
 
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