PPL / Pro Rata Share ?

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Benjammin

Filing Flight Plan
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Dec 31, 2019
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Benjammin
Hello all,

can’t seem to find any details about this one, or where anyone has asked something similar. If this has been addressed please send the link!!

That said, I’m a new PPL (200hrs) working on my IFR and almost done with commercial requirements.

My friends and family know I’ve got some hours now, and I have my own little piper. They want to fly with me and split fuel costs. (I’m proud of this lol)

We all know pro rata share, but my question is:

If I fly friends one way and drop them off somewhere, is this ok? I work crazy hours during the holidays and trying to keep flying as much as I can.

If I spend the night and come back later to bring them back with me? Round trip, but with me having to commute back to work.

With the holidays upon us and Covid travel being strange, I’m just trying to find out some more details before I try to get some gas money out of my family and friends. Eat all their holiday cookies. Work as much as I can and fly as much as I can.

(no i don’t really sleep) lol

blue skies!
 
Do you have a common purpose to go where and when they are going? If no, then no.
 
and don't make the mistake of trying to apply logic and reason to how cost-sharing works.

(and lest you think I'm trying to be cute, I'm really quite serioius)
 
I would think that as long as you're only splitting the fuel costs from the legs your friends are flying with you, it shouldn't matter if you fly home in the middle.
 
AFAIK, there is no requirement for you to log your passengers, where they got into or out of you plane, how much cash they handed you, the purpose of your flight, nor what your expenses were.

Some things are best done unobtrusively with no records which could cause you problems. Be reasonable about such flights, don’t make a big deal of it, don’t advertise, don’t overthink it, don’t accept payment in anything but cash, don’t write down anything you don’t have to, and shut up about it.
 
I'll say what I always say about this. Just don't try to be a 135 charter.Follow the spirit of the law have some plausable deniability and you'll be fine. Just have a common purpose if asked and don't advertise a paper trail for the faa and you'll be fine
 
There are a whole bunch of little ins and outs to this which are going to be discussed ad-nauseum here. Most of these are rulings that came about due to people abusing the system.

I’m not an aviation attorney nor an FAA expert just a private pilot but to me it’s pretty obvious the purpose of all these rules is simple. You’re not supposed to be flying for hire/profit/gain or offering your services. The reason we have a pro rata rule at all is because you might want to fly your buddies down to the game/fishing trip/comic book convention/etc and it would be nice if they kicked in some gas money.

If that’s realistically what you’re doing then work it out privately with said buddies/family. Don’t record it on anything official and don’t talk about it on social media. If you’re operating within the spirit of what I’ve outlined then it’s probably legal anyway. Just in case there’s a technicality you missed make sure to shut up about it.

That said, I don’t normally take any cash from anyone anyway. I just let them cover dinner or something like that if they feel like it. You know, hypothetically......
 
Absolutely incredible responses!! Thank you so much everyone for your contributions.

I’ve all taken them to heart and I think that I have a good idea of how this works in my mind.

Don’t worry...I DO want to be a 135 someday...but that’s a different conversation

Happy holidays aviators!!
 
When you are a pilot and you are taking your friends flying the easiest way to be legal is simply pay every thing.
any money that changes hands is not for flying. buying lunch is lunch, not for flying.

the FAA is not going to waste money trying to prove who paid for what.

they will investigate, when some one starts whining about how money has been paid.
 
Once on a time I would carry candidates to one island or another, I told the candidates that I would do it for free.
When I tried to pay my fuel bill I found I had a credit. Wonder what happened ?
 
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I may be the odd ball here, but I don’t agree with taking cash and not recording it etc. yes FAA won’t know, but I will. That’s good enough reason not to do it, for me at least.
 
WannFly said:
I may be the odd ball here, but I don’t agree with taking cash and not recording it etc. yes FAA won’t know, but I will. That’s good enough reason not to do it, for me at least.
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In that case you shouldn’t do it.
 
I did one true "cost split" flight. 4 people in a PA32-300 going to Oshkosh. 1 owner logged the time for club payment. 1 paid the fuel bills. 3rd paid camping/tickets to the show. When we got back I figured out who had paid how much and who needed to pay who to get it balanced. I paid half since L was with us. So truly pro rata and truly common purpose.

Otherwise I never take a penny from passengers. But I will take a free lunch here and there. Also, a few beers have been gladly accepted.
 
If I take coworkers on a flight to a project site or meeting, the cost of the flight isn't going on my expense report.

The $350 lunch, however, will.
 
WannFly said:
I may be the odd ball here, but I don’t agree with taking cash and not recording it etc. yes FAA won’t know, but I will. That’s good enough reason not to do it, for me at least.
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We're not talking about flagrantly violating the regs. We're talking about doing something that most reasonable people are going to think is in the regs and not advertising it just in case we're wrong. Or even if we're right there are plenty of busybodies out there who will call the FAA for anything they think might be a violation. Even if it's not the FSDO is generally required to investigate and then you're going to be dealing with all of that.

It's best to just avoid wasting everyone's time especially your own. I dare say most private pilots who don't hang out on places like POA probably don't know any more about the subject than the "pro rata share" rule they were taught during their training.
 
While we're on the subject, I'm studying for my PPL checkride and was watching a mock oral checkride with my GF. Example was pilot taking her 2 girlfriends on a flight. They wanted to pay for the entire flight. Obviously not legal. But then I wondered if 1 of the girl friends was rich and said she would pay for her and the other girlfriend and the pilot would pay 1/3. Is that a pro rata share?
 
gdwindowpane said:
While we're on the subject, I'm studying for my PPL checkride and was watching a mock oral checkride with my GF. Example was pilot taking her 2 girlfriends on a flight. They wanted to pay for the entire flight. Obviously not legal. But then I wondered if 1 of the girl friends was rich and said she would pay for her and the other girlfriend and the pilot would pay 1/3. Is that a pro rata share?
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Is the rich one good looking?
 
gdwindowpane said:
While we're on the subject, I'm studying for my PPL checkride and was watching a mock oral checkride with my GF. Example was pilot taking her 2 girlfriends on a flight. They wanted to pay for the entire flight. Obviously not legal. But then I wondered if 1 of the girl friends was rich and said she would pay for her and the other girlfriend and the pilot would pay 1/3. Is that a pro rata share?
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Pilot: Did one of you girls leave this envelope with cash behind?

Girlfriends: Nope. Nope.

Pilot: Well, alrighty then.
 
gdwindowpane said:
While we're on the subject, I'm studying for my PPL checkride and was watching a mock oral checkride with my GF. Example was pilot taking her 2 girlfriends on a flight. They wanted to pay for the entire flight. Obviously not legal. But then I wondered if 1 of the girl friends was rich and said she would pay for her and the other girlfriend and the pilot would pay 1/3. Is that a pro rata share?
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Yes. As long as the pilot pays his/her pro Rata share, it doesn’t matter which of the passengers pays the rest.
 
cowman said:
We're not talking about flagrantly violating the regs. We're talking about doing something that most reasonable people are going to think is in the regs and not advertising it just in case we're wrong. Or even if we're right there are plenty of busybodies out there who will call the FAA for anything they think might be a violation. Even if it's not the FSDO is generally required to investigate and then you're going to be dealing with all of that.

It's best to just avoid wasting everyone's time especially your own. I dare say most private pilots who don't hang out on places like POA probably don't know any more about the subject than the "pro rata share" rule they were taught during their training.
Click to expand...

All I am saying is if you have to hide something because you think it’s wrong, it probably is. Any pilot can choose to do whatever the heck he wants and no one can stop them. How would FAA know if one has BFR? How would FAA know if a VFR only pilot is poking around in cloud with no transponder and not talking to ATC? Heck how would FAA know if someone is flying is a certificated pilot in the first place?

It’s a slippery slope.
 
WannFly said:
All I am saying is if you have to hide something because you think it’s wrong, it probably is.
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How about if you don’t hide anything, but just refrain from recording any unnecessary info just in case someone mistakenly thinks you’re doing something wrong and could cause you all sorts of needless hassle?
 
Tom-D said:
Once on a time I would carry candidates to one island or another, I told the candidates that I would do it for free.
When I tried to pay my fuel bill I found I had a credit. Wonder what happened ?
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Doesn't political candidates fall under some other rules?
 
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