MarkH
Line Up and Wait
What is involved with a US PPL flying in Germany? What is required to fly German registered Microlights (Like the Rizen or other sub-600kg airplanes)?
PPL flying in Europe (specifically Germany)
- Thread starter MarkH
- Start date
An N registered airplane or you have to get a European license. At least that was my understanding while living over there. And getting a Euro license would've required me to learn more German than I'm capable of learning.
I should add, I only flew once while over there. I went up with another guy in an old French bi-plane (but German registered). They had an N-registered Stearman that I was hoping to be able to fly (even got my tailwheel endorsement and some Stearman time in the US to do so) but my work schedule just never allowed me enough free time. Flying in Germany is expensive. If you're going to be over there a short time, find someone to take you up. If you're going to be there longer, you'll have to join a club. They run all the grass strips and that makes it much cheaper. Flying on pavement is going to cost viel Euro.
Andy Appeltans
Pre-Flight
As far as i know there is no EASA equivalent for 61.75.
So you would need to find an N- registered plane.
The ultralights are national regulations so that would even be different from country to country.
(Not that there are no differences between countries for EASA licences)
If you go to euroga.org, there are a lot of knowledgeable people who can definitely help you out.
So you would need to find an N- registered plane.
The ultralights are national regulations so that would even be different from country to country.
(Not that there are no differences between countries for EASA licences)
If you go to euroga.org, there are a lot of knowledgeable people who can definitely help you out.
That sounds like what I recall from when I lived and flew there.
If EASA had an equivalent to 61.75, there'd be very little flight training in Europe. Most people would take their families to Florida or California for a US vacation and get their certificates and ratings there. Vacation plus flight training will cost less than just the flight training in Europe.
One could argue that the lack of a 61.75 equivalent in EASA countries is to protect flight training businesses in Europe.
- Martin
Flight training in California these days is near 200 for the plane and 80 for the instructor in big cities. How much worse is Germany? I haven't been able to find pricing on the several flight school websites I've google translated.
The rules to get an EASA PPL on the basis of an FAA certificate have loosened up a little in the last few years, but it's still complicated in most cases. This AOPA Germany Link and this list of specific requirements for license conversion may be useful, but confusion may still reign if you try to follow the conversion processes described with a German ATO (Approved Training Organization). It's all about finding the right people. Note that the conversion requirements list asks for "Information from the Central Register of Traffic Offenders" which seems to imply that you need a German drivers license (who knows why and if so it would be an undertaking costing thousands). You would also need the famous 'ZÜP' (verification of moral character), like all German pilots. Also note that microlights require a different license. European flying is mind blowing in its bureaucracy.
I have no direct or indirect experience with the German "short term holiday license" that is described in the link, that might be the most interesting possibility to look into if you can't find an N-registered plane to fly.
There are people and clubs with N-registered aircraft for rent, and as long as you're not 'established' in the EU (not well defined anywhere but maybe meaning you’re not officially resident) you don't need the EASA license in addition to the FAA certificate to fly them. This would be very much the most straightforward way for an FAA pilot to fly in Germany.
I have no direct or indirect experience with the German "short term holiday license" that is described in the link, that might be the most interesting possibility to look into if you can't find an N-registered plane to fly.
There are people and clubs with N-registered aircraft for rent, and as long as you're not 'established' in the EU (not well defined anywhere but maybe meaning you’re not officially resident) you don't need the EASA license in addition to the FAA certificate to fly them. This would be very much the most straightforward way for an FAA pilot to fly in Germany.
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I had a German license while living there and it didn't cost me a dime. Maybe my company paid something that I didn't know about. Illinois has direct reciprocity there. Didn't have to take a test or anything.
FAA + 100hrs + 2 short theory tests + practical test = EASA PPL
It's not a big deal and most authorities have english theory tests available. An EASA license issued by any EASA member state authority allows flying EASA registered aircraft worldwide.
It's not a big deal and most authorities have english theory tests available. An EASA license issued by any EASA member state authority allows flying EASA registered aircraft worldwide.
Skywalker
Cleared for Takeoff
I had a German PPL based on our FAA PPL about 15 years ago.
I had to take ground school lessons in several categories (and back then you had to go to class room training!!), tests in at least two categories, a number of flight lessons as well as a check ride. I also had to get a German medical even though our American medical was new. It was very involved.
Once I had my German license I had to keep up with the legal requirements related to hours flown and check ride sign offs for BOTH licenses as the German PPL was based on the FAA PPL. If they loosened the requirements good for you as it took me half a year to get the German license.
We figured that it is easier to fly N-registered planes in Germany.
We had our ultralight license before we got the FAA PPL therefore I cannot speak how a transition could look like. For the ultralight license we went through theoretical and practical training as well as a check ride.
Good luck!
I had to take ground school lessons in several categories (and back then you had to go to class room training!!), tests in at least two categories, a number of flight lessons as well as a check ride. I also had to get a German medical even though our American medical was new. It was very involved.
Once I had my German license I had to keep up with the legal requirements related to hours flown and check ride sign offs for BOTH licenses as the German PPL was based on the FAA PPL. If they loosened the requirements good for you as it took me half a year to get the German license.
We figured that it is easier to fly N-registered planes in Germany.
We had our ultralight license before we got the FAA PPL therefore I cannot speak how a transition could look like. For the ultralight license we went through theoretical and practical training as well as a check ride.
Good luck!
I know you asked about Germany, but just thought I’d pass on my experience. Several years ago I spent a few weeks in England on business. On the weekends a coworker and I would head over to Old Sarum. I was told that I could rent and fly solo if I had a formal checkout in their 172 - typical of a US FBO checkout. Didn’t want to go thru all that, so my buddy sat in the backseat, I was left seat, and the CFI was in the right. Got to log UK time in my logbook, saw southern English countryside, and had THE best greaser of a landing that truly impressed my coworker.
While this is true within the EU treaty area, there is no connection at all between US state and European national driving license records. License status and points on your record in the US will not be available to any country or local government outside of the US. The same is also true in reverse, which is BTW beneficial if you get a ticket in Europe while driving on any license… you pay the fine and in relation to your US driving record it’s behind you. You soon forget that you had no opportunity to contest anything and that you had to pay by credit card on the side of the road
If the LBA (German FAA, although it operates somewhat independently between German states) does need a drivers license/violations record to issue a German pilots license, they won’t find it for American drivers in records available to them. If they need only to verify that you don’t have points on a (nonexistent) EU drivers license, you’d be OK. Of course this is not clear, and probably not to them either…
In relation to getting a European drivers license if you were to need one, any reciprocity in granting drivers licenses is between US states individually and European countries individually. For example a California drivers license will get you a French drivers license without additional training or testing, but very few other US states qualify. I’m not aware of which states have a similar arrangement with Germany, but in the absence of anything similar you would be looking at several thousand dollars of mandatory training, booking a test months in advance and so on. Germany takes drivers licenses seriously, to an almost comical degree. There are something like 17 separate license categories covering different sizes and configurations of car, trailer, truck, motorcycle etc. The only positive thing for anybody looking at getting one is that German drivers licenses never expire and do not require any recurrent testing to maintain.
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To continue down the driver's license rabbit hole...
I believe the rest are partial reciprocity. You just take the written test.
I just looked it up. Partial reciprocity (written test only) is another 11 states, according to the US embassy meaning that 39 of 52 (counting DC and PR) have some level of reciprocity. Unfortunately California (the most populated state) and e.g. New York have neither with Germany specifically. You also need to have established German residency, details at the link below.
If you were in one of the US states that is not in any way covered, it might actually be easier for some to get a US license in another state and utilize the reciprocity of that state. You do not want to go through German drivers license training hell, trust me on this.
The FAA to LBA/EASA pilots license conversion is as described in the AOPA Germany document, not practical IMO for anybody short of a fully committed German resident, even for a basic non-IR PPL. I am intrigued by the temporary option listed by AOPA Germany as I’ve never heard of anybody doing it.
I have fuel-cost-only access to two planes in Germany, one D-registered and one N-registered. I’m there fairly frequently but my issue is that the D-registered plane is otherwise the one that makes more sense for me to fly.
If you were in one of the US states that is not in any way covered, it might actually be easier for some to get a US license in another state and utilize the reciprocity of that state. You do not want to go through German drivers license training hell, trust me on this.
The FAA to LBA/EASA pilots license conversion is as described in the AOPA Germany document, not practical IMO for anybody short of a fully committed German resident, even for a basic non-IR PPL. I am intrigued by the temporary option listed by AOPA Germany as I’ve never heard of anybody doing it.
I have fuel-cost-only access to two planes in Germany, one D-registered and one N-registered. I’m there fairly frequently but my issue is that the D-registered plane is otherwise the one that makes more sense for me to fly.
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